Look!!! LL is letting the FIC into Sansar

[DejaHo]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Don't ask me why they need to announce this, but here it is.

It's their business

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 Sansar development. We all know how the SL development has worked out, with creation bugs that are now 8 years old.

Dude, if, after 8 years, it aint fixed as a bug it must be considered a feature

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[Medhue Simoni]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

2.  I'm wondering if we aren't being confused by the terminology that is being used.  When Ebbe says "content creators" if what he is really meaning is (entire) experience creators.  As a simple example a College reproducing their campus in a virtual environment.  

 

3.  If what is really being referred to is Experiences, the 'tax' on content could make a bit more sense.  The fees that LL would charge really would be based on the server loads for that experience.  It could be that within that Experience you could only use content that was made by that experience creator and that is how that creator makes their money.  Now whether or not that would work is another story.  We do know how freebie prone many people are.  But those freebie prone people are not really part of the target audience.

 

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Although it is obvious that LL is stressing the whole experience aspect, I'm really not sure that is a winning formula. I'm currently taking a good look at Experience tools. I've actually pulled my coder off our main Unity game to take a look at Experiences with me and see what we can do. Yesterday, I was at the TPVD meeting and asked Oz about whether they had plans to allow Experiences to be sold. He said they've considered it, but there are no plans. This drastically limits the scope of why someone would make an experience. That said, after playing with my coder today, we still might make something with it.

Today, I also went and checked out some of the Experiences that have already been made. So far, nothing really impresses me, but I've only tried a few. There are only 9 total right now, and 2 are the same sim. If LL is banking on Experiences, then it doesn't seem to be taking off. It's kind of easy to see why. I've talked about this before. The bottleneck in making things in SL are coders. There aren't enough of them. In order for something like Experiences to work, then LL would have to spend time making these experiences, and then giving the code out for free, so anyone could create their own version. Or, LL could just magically make coding easier, lol.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Drongle McMahon wrote:

 

By the way, I thought Ebbe's earliest statements indicated that Sansar would be using an existing engine, and that Unity was mentioned in that context although no decisions had been taken. Indeed it seems highly likely that they would want to reinvent the wheel as far as the underlying technology is concerned. In that case, much more of their efforts will be devoted to the layers above, which, amongst a host of other things, would include controlling content parameters. Thus Sansar would really be a meta-platform. Some contraints would be imposed by the underlying engine. Have we heard any more about that?

 

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I only remember them refering to Unity as an example of model they were trying to create, and that also uses FBX. I don't remember them saying they were going to use it. That said, I've worked on Multiplayer Unity games, and it literally takes an afternoon to set up. There is no way really that a Unity engine is going to hold hundreds of detailed avatars at a time. Just with the avatar we were using, we were lucky to have 50 of them and still have over 10 fps.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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One of the big issues in SL is lag from unoptimised content.

Maybe LL is thinking they can help alleviate this by forcing creators to work with only certain "compliant" formats.  

Also, after the first round of tests then they can add other formats.  On the current time table they still have a year to go before the "Grand Opening."

Medhue (not to single him out here) is only one Creator in an ocean full of them.  Nothing obligates LL to cater to the formats he or anyone prefers.   

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The format has nothing to do with restrictions. The formats can't really restrict things at all. If the format can save something, then it can save thousands of them within the format. I don't have a problem with the FBX format. I actually love it. My problem is with restricting the programs to make that format. Technically, I really don't understand why LL even says they are going to add other formats besides FBX. I don't see the point, besides like texture formats.

[Medhue Simoni]

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namssab1nad Piers wrote:

I am a casual builder.  Not a college trained 3D modeler.  I have though run my own business in real life.  I do follow the tech industry in the business world including online "games".  Whatever possessed LL to want to make another virtual world is beyond comprehension with so many struggling with the current world wide economy.  No country is experiencing consistent growth that is increasing disposable income for everyone.  Worker participation rates are at their lowest in several decades.  Disposable income has dropped dramatically in the last decade.  This is not the time to try to reinvent anything.  People just do not have the money to spend.  So in my humble opinion, Sansar will be a tremendous flop.  It will have an initial one time user success, but will be struggling after just 3 months to attract and hold users and creators alike.  Personally, I will not waste my time with it.

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You could very well be right. That said, you can't just sit around and wait for the economy to be better, cause that could be a very long wait. Virtual world are a bit different tho, cause the people who engage in them actually make money and produce wealth. It would be different if SL was just a game, and LL was the only 1 collecting any cash.

When the recession started, I remember someone making the analogy of people going to the theatre to watch Annie in the 1920s, even tho everyone was broke. The theatre was only like 5 cents a show. It was the 1 cheap thing you could do at the time to entertain yourself. I think virtual worlds and games are doing the same thing. Most are fairly cheap, and you get alot of bang for your bucks, and can spend all day there.

[irihapeti]

just add some more to the mix

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is maybe worth considering that Sansar dont use FBX

 

that Sansar has a custom internal format that it uses. (SL has a custom format as well)

 

and what LL have done is write a Maya plugin that exports to this Sansar format

 

and then in the Beta stage LL will write similar Sansar plugin exporters for other design tools

 

+

 

am pretty sure this is what LL have done

 

as it makes no sense at all for LL (or anyone) to use FBX as a internal format, or to write a FBX translator/importer

 

when can more easy and with more control over the outcome, just write a Maya to Sansar plugin exporter

 

FBX being a closed spec. Autodesk having never released the FBX specs formally

 

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also as well

 

if think about texturing tools like Gimp, Photoshop, etc. Animation, sound and vid proggys

 

LL could write plugins for them as well. So they all export natively to the Sansar format, where in some cases depending on datatype the Sansar is a wrapper/container round them

 

a Sansar file format type that encompass all types of content in this field, is a mass market leader thing. If do it right then it becomes widely known [and used]

 

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eta add

 

is already been a lot of chat from all the vendors in the VR field. both hardware and softwar makers. Chat about that there should be a standard for data exchange between them all

 

i think that nobody is going to wait for the international bodies to determine this. I think that companies like LL are just going to make a own standard that works for them. And that they will open spec it and just run with it

 

 

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

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namssab1nad Piers wrote:

No country is experiencing consistent growth that is increasing disposable income for everyone.  Worker participation rates are at their lowest in several decades.  Disposable income has dropped dramatically in the last decade.  This is not the time to try to reinvent anything.

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This sounds like exactly the time to reinvent things.

Necessity is the mother of invention, don'tcha know!

[irihapeti]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

3.  If what is really being referred to is Experiences, the 'tax' on content could make a bit more sense.  The fees that LL would charge really would be based on the server loads for that experience

 

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i think this is the more sensible way to apply tax/fees on sales. Is better to tax the LI of the item rather than the L$ sale price.

better meaning that it can meet the multi objectives. Minimize lag, create a revenue stream, and not penalise efficient creators who build low lag items

as this field matures, low lag items are going to sell more than high lag items. So when tax the sales price only then efficient creators will effectively subsidise the inefficient creators. A financial penalty on efficient creators for no good reason

[Radium Soup]

As is usual, FIC is being used as a synonym for "butthurt that I was not included". Prok would be so proud.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Radium Soup wrote:

As is usual, FIC is being used as a synonym for "butthurt that I was not included". Prok would be so proud.

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Thanks for your thought provoking analysis, and the bump.

[Radium Soup]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Thanks for your thought provoking analysis, and the bump.

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You're welcome. In fact I'm happy to bump it again, but let's be honest, no amount of bumping is going to alter the basic premise of this thread.

 

There, there. It's one thing for a person to suspect that they may not be as influential as they hoped, but having it demonstrated publicly like this must be a brutally grounding experience for someone living in a fantasy world. I'm just glad I could be here to help you through it.

[HughJegow]

With SL V2, LL are doing the equivalent of making spaghetti bolognaise out of roadkill and string, because they are cheap and available.

[Medhue Simoni]

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Radium Soup wrote:

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Thanks for your thought provoking analysis, and the bump.

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You're welcome. In fact I'm happy to bump it again, but let's be honest, no amount of bumping is going to alter the basic premise of this thread.

 

There, there. It's one thing for a person to suspect that they may not be as influential as they hoped, but having it demonstrated publicly like this must be a brutally grounding experience for someone living in a fantasy world. I'm just glad I could be here to help you through it.

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You obviously know nothing about me. If Sansar was open to anyone, yeah, I would likely go in, walk around and test things out. Then..... I would likely comment about it all. I care only to the point that others and I will eventually benefit from it. And, I have a soft spot for SL, and any platform like it. Beyond all that, I really don't give a crap, especially about whether I'm "influential". Anyone that knows me, knows that I don't really care about being popular, or "influential". It's probably my greatest gift and likely greatest downfall. Since I was a kid, I realized that caring what other people think, means I won't do, be, or get what I want out of life.

I quite enjoy when people try to psychoanalyze others. To me, it's a great look into, not the person being analyzed, but the person doing the analyzing.