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Viewer-Managed Marketplace Released: Migration Begins July 23, 2015

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We've put up a new blog post with definitive dates for migration from Direct Delivery to VMM.

[Update August 3, 2015] All Direct Delivery listings have now been migrated to Viewer-Managed Marketplace(VMM), and the VMM-enabled viewer is now the default Release download.

Thank you everyone for your patience during the migration.

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The assumption then is that VMM RC will be promoted to the defacto release prior to the 23rd?

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seanabrady wrote:

The assumption then is that VMM RC will be promoted to the defacto release prior to the 23rd?

Probably not because we've just done a promotion and we don't feel we need to push a new update on everyone immediately just to get it to Merchants, but it's available now and we don't know of any problems with it.

It is first in line for the next promotion though assuming that nothing really bad happens.

 

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A quick question on the migration - I have about 800 items in my MP and another 200 or so currently my the VMM folder which I started using with the first beta. When the migration takes place, will it create 800 new folders with all of the contents in my VMM folder in my inventory? This will make my inventory huge, but I understand as long as an individual folder isn't too large, then everything is ok.

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I am praying we will be able to use Singularity, or at least Firestorm, ASAP. I dread having to even log in to the LL viewer (which changes most of my prefs in addition to lacking tools and generally being a PITA to use).

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Oz Linden wrote:

Probably not because we've just done a promotion and we don't feel we need to push a new update on everyone immediately
just to get it to Merchants
, but it's available now and we don't know of any problems with it.


Oz, just a tip, stick with development, don't consider a career change to Public Relations.

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Gee, thanks, LL. Way to tell TPV developers and their users to see figure 1. For that matter, telling merchants that their only option to manage their Marketplaces - for some, their RL livelihoods - is to use a pre-release viewer is...uhm...trying to find polite words here...

I blogged about this. The Firestorm team is deciding what to do about this right now. We'll give our users something. It's too important not to. None of the options are good. 

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I'm with you on that. I downloaded and logged in with the required SL viewer yesterday. Was the first time I've used their viewer in nearly 2 years. It was an abomination then and it still is today.

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Tonya Souther wrote:

Gee, thanks, LL. Way to tell TPV developers and their users to see figure 1. For that matter, telling merchants that their only option to manage their Marketplaces - for some, their RL livelihoods - is to use a pre-release viewer is...uhm...trying to find polite words here...

I
. The Firestorm team is deciding what to do about this right now. We'll give our users something. It's too important not to. None of the options are good. 

Thanks for the explanation Tonya (and for providing a functional viewer!).

What I don't understand and LL is too busy to explain:

WHY THE 23RD AS A DEADLINE?  Is it someone's birthday or something? 

Why not just wait until the TPV teams can be ready with a roll out.  Having to log into the LL crap viewer every time I upload to MP (usually several times a day) is going to be more proof of my growing suspicion that LL has a special hatred of merchants.

 

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Tonya Souther wrote:

... telling merchants that their only option to manage their Marketplaces - for some, their RL livelihoods - is to use a pre-release viewer is...uhm...trying to find polite words here...

 

No polite words needed.  Imagine this:-

"Dear Oz, thank you for buying your new car from us, we're pleased to tell you that you will take delivery of it by the 23rd because it's our end of month sales deadline and we need the numbers.  Oh by the way, the braking system is new and a bit pre-release, we don't anticipate any problems with them but we'll upgrade them when it comes in for service.  Thank you for buying from Dodgy Motors, have a nice day!"

Dramatic?  Once again LL fail to understand that some merchants RL income is derived from the platform.  To use the words "just for merchants" came across as dismissive and offhand.

Maybe it wasn't meant that way, some developers should never be put in front of humans as they're renowned for choosing their words poorly when dealing with the wetware interface.

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If VMM isn't going to be in the Official Release viewer I don't believe the Automated/Forced Migration should be started.

If a feature isn't in the Official Released Viewer, then it hasn't been fully released, and as per your own knowledge base article on VMM at https://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Viewer-managed-Marketplace/ta-p/2854226 

"About one week after the full release of Viewer-managed Marketplace, automated migration of Direct Delivery listings begins"

 

Edit: It appears LL can't even agree on the timeline, another document http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Viewer-Managed_Marketplace_FAQ#What_is_the_schedule_going_forward.3F

says "A month after the release, automated migration of Direct Delivery listings will begin. Magic Box listings will need to be manually migrated. "

 

 

 

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Niall Braveheart wrote:

If VMM isn't going to be in the Official Release viewer I don't believe the Automated/Forced Migration should be started.

If a feature isn't in the Official Released Viewer, then it hasn't been fully released, and as per your own knowledge base article on VMM at 

"About one week after the full release of Viewer-managed Marketplace, automated migration of Direct Delivery listings begins"

 

Edit: It appears LL can't even agree on the timeline, another document

says "A month after the release, automated migration of Direct Delivery listings will begin. Magic Box listings will need to be manually migrated. "

 

 

 

Thank you Niall.  It would say it must be Opposite Day at LL -- "after" in their official timelines actually means "before" -- except that as you point out, there are two different "after"s.

 

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With the come of Direct Delivery I decided for a system with folders, in stead of boxing up my items, because this has the advantage that customers can see all parts of the product in the contents tab, before buying.

To me it seems that VMM is based on boxed items. So far I could not find documentation about how to deal with nested folders. So my question is: how should your inworld market listing look when you work with folders in folders? Like picture 1 or picture 2?

VMMquestion.png

 

 

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ok, well...

I did download the viewer, althought i hate to have to log with an other one than my usual (firestorm), but well, there is no way i let LL team migrate my stuffs themselves. Last time they made a huge mess and althought i made also the migration myself at this time, they managed to stuck wrong pics on some of my listings and didnt fix before more than one year. 

So please, i think i made correctly the migration, so mercy, dont touch anything on my listing if there is no necessity !!!

Really, it took me 2 half days to make the migration (im lucky, my listing is not that big) and i did that because i dont want to you to mess with it, so please restrain yourself to do it.

Also i would like to know why the hell, when i move some folders (not bigger than the other ones) they arrive in the VMM window splited in several sub folders ? I see no obvious reason for that. i could fig out how to fix there, but i would like to know the reason for this.

Last but not least, will we be able one time for all to get ride of all the old files that we have in our list each time we want to link an item to another one ? We have the ones prior to direct delivery migration still and it's just a hell to fig out which are the right ones. So while you are at it, can you fix that too ?

 

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Madeliefste, you can keep with folders.

just migrate the folders in the box at the bottom of the VMM.

A folder will appear in the list (same name), this is for the listing of the item, then inside it there is a subfolder, with all the items inside, this is the one for the version. If you happen to update an item, then u can or modify the contents of this folder, OR add a new updated folder in the main folder and u set the new one as active so it ll be the one linked to market place.

You can delete the old one, or keep it if you think u will need to go back to this version later.

 

ETA : and i did test it, by test delivery and also by normal purchase and it works like a charm, the folders came in my inventory with everything inside.

 

ETA 2 : something i just notice now im back to my firestorm viewer : i find there a "Marketplace listing folder" in my regular inventory with all the items i migrated there. Can i add new folder there ? will they be send to the MP ? Or at least will i find them then in the VMM window once ill log back in the LL viewer ?

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

ETA 2 : something i just notice now im back to my firestorm viewer : i find there a "Marketplace listing folder" in my regular inventory with all the items i migrated there. Can i add new folder there ? will they be send to the MP ? Or at least will i find them then in the VMM window once ill log back in the LL viewer ?

Yes, this works, but I really really would advise you not to do this because something could easily go wrong.

I would refrain from fiddling about in the exposed Marketplace Listings folder in your inventory at all on Firestorm or any other non-VMM viewer.

This is something I already played about with, because I know it's likely people will try to do this & I wanted to see if there were any problems. There doesn't appear to be but it doesn't mean it's going to work as expected for all cases.

If you just drop loose items into the Marketplace Listings folder on a non-VMM viewer, when you login on the VMM viewer, those loose items do not automatically have their VMM subfolders created and you need to clean them out of the Marketplace Listings floater.

On a non-VMM viewer, if you create the required VMM subfolders manually inside the marketplace listings folder of inventory and add your items to them and you keep the folder structure correct, then when you login on a VMM viewer, the Marketplace Listings floater does appear to behave as expected and allow you to create the listing and everything works as expected.

Really though - don't do this. Use a VMM viewer to create all your listings to be on the safe side.

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Ok thank you for the clarification Whirly.

I suspected this and as i had some new listing to send, i did from the VMM viewer anyway.

I will wait till firestorm team add this feature to their viewer :))

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

Madeliefste, you can keep with folders.

just migrate the folders in the box at the bottom of the VMM.

A folder will appear in the list (same name), this is for the listing of the item, then inside it there is a subfolder, with all the items inside, this is the one for the version. If you happen to update an item, then u can or modify the contents of this folder, OR add a new updated folder in the main folder and u set the new one as active so it ll be the one linked to market place.

You can delete the old one, or keep it if you think u will need to go back to this version later.


Sometimes I wish I was a happy camper, like in 2007

It's not a matter of just drag the product folder in the VMM, because when I do so I get a listing like

cYo product X

    cYo product X

    meshes

    textures

    materials

VMM handles my subfolders like they are versions, in stead of subfolders. So I have to replace the subfolders by hand , in the cYo product X version folder.

 

My inventory is organised in a way that makes it most easy for me to cater both my in world shoppers and the direct delivery system. The inventory is organised per brand.

For cYo I have two main product folders: cYo Mesh and cYo Sculpties (this comes along with two in words stores, cYo Mesh and cYo Sculpties). Some products are available both as sculptie- and as mesh product. They have the same product name, but since they are in a different main folder there is no problem. But I see the problems already coming, since I cannot create a separate Mesh- and Sculptie shop in the marketplace. There will be just one big list of productfolders, with both mesh and sculptie products messing up my marketplace folder.

It is way to much work for me to do the immigration by hand. I did that twice in the past, and I still feel the frustration of those immigrations. In both cases it took more then 100 work hours. So this time I acted like an ostrich, I rather sticked my head in the sand than face the danger. I just hoped it would take a very long time of beta testing, and that DD could still exist for a some more months while VMM would become active.

Now there is no much choice left then let Linden Lab to their thing. I only can hope that it won't mess up my listings too much.

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Based on my experience, updating my VMM listings in Firestorm works well. I've done this for over 10 weeks and I estmate at least 500 updates. Nothing has gone wrong.

I do all my updates in Firestorm. I work on my activated folders several times a day. If I make a quick change to the contents of a listing, edit a notecard or add an LM I do this in Firestorm. The listing automatically updates. What is in the active subfolder is what the customer gets. This is my experience of it. When I add an item to the subfolder I check the MP website and it is there in the contents tab.

I only ever switch to the VMM viewer to create a new listing, because you need to hit create new listing and activate, but once activated I do everything in Firestorm.

If I had logged in and out of viewers several times a day over the past 10 weeks (over 500 occasions) I would have gone mad. Fortunately it works for me in Firestorm - there has not been one single customer complaint about failed delivery or items missing.

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Madeliefste, I was automatically migrated and all my folders were named correctly. I believe that with manual migration you may need to rename the subfolder yourself. With the automatic migration there is nothing to do after it. The subfolder took on the name of the main listing folder.

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hum maybe what happens to your folders is what i said in my first post : why some folders when i move them to the VMM come splited in several sub folders ?

In that case what i did, is move the contents of the extra sub folders to the first one and deleted then the empy subfolders.

i understand your decision to let LL do it, bec of the huge amount of items you have. Maybe if i had the same ammount of items than you i would have done this too. idk

but for your problem with separated mesh and sculpty mp store, it was like this before. One MP store by avatar. So the new system wont change this. But why not create an alt with a name quite similar to yours and open another mp store for one category items under the same name but with its specificity in it ?

It will force you to manage also the second account, but if u set it to the same mail adress, you still can manage those 2 pretty easily, imho.

i wish you good luck with the Migration done by LL. I hope they wont mess things this time. :)

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I did two new items by hand. Both the product folder and the listing folder get the same name, when I copy them from inventory to the VMM. Both my problem is, I still have subfolders under my listing folder. And those are not handled as subfolders, but as version folders.

When I look at your MP store in the content tab, I only see products there. But when you look in my listing on MP, you see folders in the contents tab. It are those folders that are not recognised as subfolders from the product...

So I really fear this automatic migration... It might end up that customers won't get the complete product, because all the items that are organised in subfolders won't arrive, because those are seen by VVM as inactive versions

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I agree 100% Madeline - I use subfolders in my products to keep things organized and I have the exact same experience as you, a new product folder is created and I have to manually move them. This is a big issue for migration! Heading over to the jira to see if it has been reported.

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

With the come of Direct Delivery I decided for a system with folders, in stead of boxing up my items, because this has the advantage that customers can see all parts of the product in the contents tab, before buying.

To me it seems that VMM is based on boxed items. So far I could not find documentation about how to deal with nested folders. So my question is: how should your inworld market listing look when you work with folders in folders? Like picture 1 or picture 2?

VMMquestion.png

 

 

Your VMM listing would look like picture 2 - the main folder called cYo Pregnancy Test containing a subfolder named cYo Pregnancy Test, which contains all your subsubfolders.

LL seem to be doing a good job of it. They did with mine anyway.

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