A Confederacy of Dunces?

[DejaHo]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

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Perhaps you're laboring under the misconception that the confederate battle flag is simply a symbol of Southern pride... it's not

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...Dres

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Perhaps I am Dres.  This is what I have been taught.  This is what I witness.

Yes, there are those who abuse and misconstrue its meaning to support their own hatred, but I do not.

 

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What if what you've been taught is wrong? What if what you've witnessed is incomplete? What if it's actually

you

who's misconstruing the meaning?

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Vilification of that battle flag and the Confederacy is part of the cultural revolution in America that flowered half a century ago.

Among its goals was the demoralization of the American people by demonizing their past and poisoning their belief in their own history

.  P. Buchanan

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How exactly does that answer my question?

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I don't think he was answering your question so much as proving your point.

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I was proving my point.  Your ignorance and manifestations of favoritism is once again on display, McMasters.  

Has Theresa not yet sippeth from the cup?

 

[Dresden]

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

For many outside the US, and probably for some within as well, the flag is seen 'innocently' as a "Rebel Banner".

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Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

...Dres

[DejaHo]

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Dresden wrote:

 

I was born and raised in the deep south and I assure you, there's nothing to misconstrue.  The Southern pride thing is a convenient cover story. 

Everyone knows what that flag really symbolizes, they just don't talk about it in mixed company.

...Dres

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If deep south Southerners just don't talk about it in mixed company then how can a northern New Yorker or a Canadian be blissfully ignorant?  Unless deep south Southerners enjoy 'us' not knowing. 

[Dresden]

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DejaHo wrote:

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Dresden wrote:

 

I was born and raised in the deep south and I assure you, there's nothing to misconstrue.  The Southern pride thing is a convenient cover story. 

Everyone knows what that flag really symbolizes, they just don't talk about it in mixed company.

...Dres

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If deep south Southerners just don't talk about it in mixed company then how can a northern New Yorker or a Canadian be blissfully ignorant? 

Unless deep south Southerners enjoy 'us' not knowing. 

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They do.

...Dres

[DejaHo]

Then you can't fault us for our ignorance.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

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DejaHo wrote:

Then you can't fault us for our ignorance.

 

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No; only for being content with it.

[DejaHo]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

Then you can't fault us for our ignorance.

 

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No; only for being content with it.

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You assume, and you are wrong.  I am content with nothing in life.  However, you have offered nothing but questions of those who don't seem to follow your doctrine.  Show me.  Teach me, but don't spit platitudes and make assumptions of me.   

 

[Dresden]

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DejaHo wrote:

Then you can't fault us for our ignorance.

 

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I don't.  I fault those who hide behind the Southern pride/heritage argument for their support of what they damn well know is a symbol of white supremacy.  Especially those who do so for the specific purpose of political expediency.  And that includes Pat, even though he doesn't do a very good job of hiding how he really feels.

...Dres

[DejaHo]

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DejaHo wrote:

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

Then you can't fault us for our ignorance.

 

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No; only for being content with it.

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You assume, and you are wrong.  I am content with nothing in life.  However, you have offered nothing but questions of those who don't seem to follow your doctrine.  Show me.  Teach me, but don't spit platitudes and make assumptions of me.   

 

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And your assumption is wrong because you think I am defending the confederate flag; or even racism.   I am defending the right to fly what ever **bleep**ing flag you want to fly. 

And I am willing to die defending your right to do so.  Even if you would not defend my right to do the same.

Talk about being content with ones ignorance, Theresa. 

 

[Dresden]

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DejaHo wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

Then you can't fault us for our ignorance.

 

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No; only for being content with it.

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You assume, and you are wrong.  I am content with nothing in life.  However, you have offered nothing but questions of those who don't seem to follow your doctrine.  Show me.  Teach me, but don't spit platitudes and make assumptions of me.   

 

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And your assumption is wrong because you think I am defending the confederate flag; or even racism.   I am defending the right to fly what ever **bleep**ing flag you want to fly. 

And I am willing to die defending your right to do so.  Even if you would not defend my right to do the same.

Talk about being content with ones ignorance, Theresa. 

 

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Um... did you miss Theresa's first post to this thread where she stated, "I personally don't believe in preventing others from using symbols like the [flag that sort of looks like one of the various Confederate battle flags although usually the wrong shape and/or having the wrong color blue]"?

...Dres

[DejaHo]

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Dresden wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

Then you can't fault us for our ignorance.

 

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I don't.  I fault those who hide behind the Southern pride/heritage argument for their support of what they damn well know is a symbol of

white supremacy

.  Especially those who do so for the specific purpose of political expediency.

...Dres

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That's a fair post, Dres.

However, I must have missed that connotation in all those Dukes of Hazzards reruns.  I guess I was too distracted by Daisy's shorts.  

[Theresa Tennyson]

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DejaHo wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

Then you can't fault us for our ignorance.

 

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No; only for being content with it.

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You assume, and you are wrong.  I am content with nothing in life.  However, you have offered nothing but questions of those who don't seem to follow your doctrine.  Show me.  Teach me, but don't spit platitudes and make assumptions of me.   

 

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And your assumption is wrong because you think I am defending the confederate flag; or even racism.   I am defending the right to fly what ever **bleep**ing flag you want to fly. 

And I am willing to die defending your right to do so.  Even if you would not defend my right to do the same.

Talk about being content with ones ignorance, Theresa. 

 

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When did I say that you were content in your ignorance? I only said someone could be faulted for that.

And if you aren't defending the flag, why did you write:

The 'flag' flew over the battlefield.  It was raised and flew on the mast of the USS Columbia in WWII. It flew on retaken conquered islands in the Pacific.  If flew on the tanks and jeeps of southern soldiers in Vietnam.  It, as far as I know, has never flown over the housing quarters of slaves. 

But I'm asking questions again. Teaching moment offered:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Politics-Voices/2015/0623/How-Confederate-battle-flag-debate-is-twisting-history

[DejaHo]

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Dresden wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

Then you can't fault us for our ignorance.

 

---

No; only for being content with it.

---

You assume, and you are wrong.  I am content with nothing in life.  However, you have offered nothing but questions of those who don't seem to follow your doctrine.  Show me.  Teach me, but don't spit platitudes and make assumptions of me.   

 

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And your assumption is wrong because you think I am defending the confederate flag; or even racism.   I am defending the right to fly what ever **bleep**ing flag you want to fly. 

And I am willing to die defending your right to do so.  Even if you would not defend my right to do the same.

Talk about being content with ones ignorance, Theresa. 

 

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Um... did you miss Theresa's first post to this thread where she stated, "I personally don't believe in preventing others from using symbols like the [flag that sort of looks like one of the various Confederate battle flags although usually the wrong shape and/or having the wrong color blue]"?

...Dres

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Did she read my first post?  Because I don't make the jump from the confederate flag to that of the atrocities of Nazi Germany it is assumed I . . . ?

[Dresden]

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DejaHo wrote:

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Dresden wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

Then you can't fault us for our ignorance.

 

---

No; only for being content with it.

---

You assume, and you are wrong.  I am content with nothing in life.  However, you have offered nothing but questions of those who don't seem to follow your doctrine.  Show me.  Teach me, but don't spit platitudes and make assumptions of me.   

 

---

And your assumption is wrong because you think I am defending the confederate flag; or even racism.   I am defending the right to fly what ever **bleep**ing flag you want to fly. 

And I am willing to die defending your right to do so.  Even if you would not defend my right to do the same.

Talk about being content with ones ignorance, Theresa. 

 

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Um... did you miss Theresa's first post to this thread where she stated, "I personally don't believe in preventing others from using symbols like the [flag that sort of looks like one of the various Confederate battle flags although usually the wrong shape and/or having the wrong color blue]"?

...Dres

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Did she read my first post?  Because I don't make the jump from the confederate flag to that of the atrocities of Nazi Germany it is assumed I . . . ?

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I was specifically referring to your right to fly whatever flag you want.

...Dres

[Theresa Tennyson]

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DejaHo wrote:

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Did she read my first post?  Because I don't make the jump from the confederate flag to that of the atrocities of Nazi Germany it is assumed I . . . ?

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The leap between Nazi Germany and the slaveholding/Jim Crow culture of the southern United States may not be as great as you think.

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER - It's obvious that at its height, Nazi Germany was much worse than the southern United States as far as pure atrocity.

BUT:

Both societies were built around the idea that there was a ruling race (Aryans/Whites) which was fundamentally superior to a sub-race (Jews/Blacks) and therefore the sub-race should have radically reduced freedoms as part of the natural order of things. Huge numbers of the ruling class just accepted this without question. Of course the Whites of the South didn't systematically exterminate the Blacks; however, a cynic would point out that they needed to keep them around for labor. If a Black was seen as a troublemaker, well...

 

Also Nazi Germany's reign of terror lasted about 12 years. The Southern society lasted for and affected generations. Please don't think I'm judging everyone from the South as complicit in this; neither am I giving Northerners a free pass. But the Confederate Battle Flag is not only a symbol of the Confederate military, but the symbol of the entire society. It is worth noting that the battle flag first appeared on the Georgia state flag and on the South Carolina capitol flagstaff during the civil rights movement of the 50's and 60's. It's also why this symbol may have different meanings for a person depending on whether they're White or Black.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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DejaHo wrote:

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Dresden wrote:

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DejaHo wrote:

Then you can't fault us for our ignorance.

 

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I don't.  I fault those who hide behind the Southern pride/heritage argument for their support of what they damn well know is a symbol of

white supremacy

.  Especially those who do so for the specific purpose of political expediency.

...Dres

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That's a fair post, Dres.

However, I must have missed that connotation in all those Dukes of Hazzards reruns.  I guess I was too distracted by Daisy's shorts.  

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Did you ever see a single black person in any episode of Dukes of Hazard? I didn't..

[irihapeti]

Don Pedro Colley

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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irihapeti wrote:

Don Pedro Colley

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1 character in 10 episodes over 7 years is kind of proving the point...

[irihapeti]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

Don Pedro Colley

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1 character in 10 episodes over 7 years is kind of proving the point...

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as well

Al White, Ella Mae Brown, Ernie Hudson, Herb Jefferson, James Reynolds, Ji-Tu Cumbuka, John Carter, Kevin Hall, Steven Williams, Wally Taylor, Woody Strode

maybe you never saw any of these people bc you never expected to see them. That TV show being all racist and that

[Dresden]

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irihapeti wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

Don Pedro Colley

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1 character in 10 episodes over 7 years is kind of proving the point...

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as well

Al White, Ella Mae Brown, Ernie Hudson, Herb Jefferson, James Reynolds, Ji-Tu Cumbuka, John Carter, Kevin Hall, Steven Williams, Wally Taylor, Woody Strode

maybe you never saw any of these people bc you never expected to see them. That TV show being all racist and that

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I blame the shorts.

...Dres

[irihapeti]

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Dresden wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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irihapeti wrote:

Don Pedro Colley

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1 character in 10 episodes over 7 years is kind of proving the point...

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as well

Al White, Ella Mae Brown, Ernie Hudson, Herb Jefferson, James Reynolds, Ji-Tu Cumbuka, John Carter, Kevin Hall, Steven Williams, Wally Taylor, Woody Strode

maybe you never saw any of these people bc you never expected to see them. That TV show being all racist and that

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I blame the shorts.

...Dres

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(:

[irihapeti]

has been quite interesting reading USA peoples comments on this

this flag was never the government flag of the CSA. It was never a State flag either (or incorporated into), until after the battle was over and had been lost

as a observer I think that the incorporation of a battle flag into a emblem of local government is disrepectful

is disrepectful to the soldiers who fight (and die) beneath and against the flag. Is a battle flag and that it is all a soldier has

is most disrespectful to raise again a battle flag as a local government political fu gesture after it has been surrendered by and with a soldiers honour

this fu gesture is not only totally disrespectful to the soldiers who bested you, but also to your own who gave their all and surrendered with honour to the enemy, when all was lost

+

that individuals might wear/fly whichever I dont really have any problem with, or with them making fu gestures about anything. Or TV shows, or books, or films, or vids, or even 3D stuffs in SL

but for local government bodies in the RL to do this for real, is pretty off I think

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

The leap between Nazi Germany and the slaveholding/Jim Crow culture of the southern United States may not be as great as you think.

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That leap is enormous.

Segregation was only the starting point in nazi Germany. From segregation it became imprisonment and within a few years it became extinction, you even mention that yourself. Nazi Germany was based on pure hate and terror, towards all citizens not fully subjecting themselves to the dictatorship. "Elements" that didn't fit the "superior nation" were to be removed completely.

One could write pages and pages full of examples and in depth explanations, but the above alone sets nazi Germany far apart from Jim Crowe culture, or (southern) slavery even.

[irihapeti]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

The leap between Nazi Germany and the slaveholding/Jim Crow culture of the southern United States may not be as great as you think.

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That leap is enormous.

Segregation was only the starting point in nazi Germany. From segregation it became imprisonment and within a few years it became extinction, you even mention that yourself. Nazi Germany was

based

on pure hate and terror, towards all citizens not

fully

subjecting themselves to the dictatorship. "Elements" that didn't fit the "superior nation" were to be removed completely.

One could write pages and pages full of examples and in depth explanations, but the above alone sets nazi Germany

far

apart from Jim Crowe culture, or (southern) slavery even.

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the effect is the same tho

the effect of the act. The act of subjugation

a subjugation in either of these cases, based on a belief that our tribe is by the "law of nature" superior to yours. That bc this is a "law of nature" then it is a undeniable truth. That bc it is undeniable then it would be irrational for any person of our tribe to think or act otherwise

+

what you seem to be saying is that slavery is not anything like genocide, therefore the two are not comparable. As independent acts then is true

the act of subjugation from which both slavery and genocide can and do flow, is the same tho

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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irihapthe effect is the same tho

the effect of the act. The act of subjugation

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Subjugation is not the same as removal.

The effect of slavery is one group being exploited. The effect of extermination is not comparable. You can't compare denying a group of people certain civil rights to denying them from existing altogether. Well maybe you can, but it is beyond me.

To paint a picture...

You can't possible mean putting a certain group of people on their seperate train is the same as putting a group of people on a train on their way to a certain death?