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I ask the following questions not to be incendiary, but because I honestly believe that doing so might actually start an interesting discussion:

Considering recent events, do you believe that Linden Lab should follow the likes of Wal-mart, Target, Amazon and Etsy, henceforth banning the sale (and perhaps even existence) of any creation containing the image of the confederate battle flag from its services?  And, of course, why/why not?

...Dres

ETA: the word battle.

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In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

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Dresden wrote:

I ask the following questions not to be incendiary, but because I honestly believe that doing so might actually start an interesting discussion:

Considering recent events, do you believe that Linden Lab should follow the likes of Wal-mart, Target, Amazon and Etsy, henceforth banning the sale (and perhaps even existence) of any creation containing the image of the confederate battle flag from its services?  And, of course, why/why not?

...Dres

ETA: the word battle.

 

I find it interesting that you can still buy Swastika emblazoned items and even skins for your playstation on Amazon, yet not a confederate flag.

On the flag question, I think it's a symbol of a time when Parts of America treated other people as less than human. However, at times throughout history every single people has enslaved another people. Should all flags then be banned? So, yes, do away with the confederate flag. We have a flag of freedom.

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DejaHo wrote:

In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

None of your examples ar symbols of atrocity.. You have: a stolen holiday, a sybmbol of equality and love, and a countries flag.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


DejaHo wrote:

In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

None of your examples ar symbols of atrocity.. You have: a stolen holiday, a sybmbol of equality and love, and a countries flag.

And you Godwin'ed the thread with your first post.

 

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DejaHo wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


DejaHo wrote:

In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

None of your examples ar symbols of atrocity.. You have: a stolen holiday, a sybmbol of equality and love, and a countries flag.

And you Godwin'ed the thread with your first post.

 

I disagree... it's not a Godwin when it's a fair comparison.

...Dres

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Dresden wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


DejaHo wrote:

In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

None of your examples ar symbols of atrocity.. You have: a stolen holiday, a sybmbol of equality and love, and a countries flag.

And you Godwin'ed the thread with your first post.

 

I disagree... it's not a Godwin when it's a fair comparison.

...Dres

Do you really think Nazi Germany = Southern CSA?

It is a totally disproportionate analogy.  I am not a southerner, but I never made the leap to equate the two.

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Dresden wrote:

I ask the following questions not to be incendiary, but because I honestly believe that doing so might actually start an interesting discussion:

Considering recent events, do you believe that Linden Lab should follow the likes of Wal-mart, Target, Amazon and Etsy, henceforth banning the sale (and perhaps even existence) of any creation containing the image of the confederate battle flag from its services?  And, of course, why/why not?

...Dres

ETA: the word battle.

Wal-Mart, Target and Amazon are independent entities - they are saying "I won't do this." In Second Life, Linden Lab is the de facto government - they'd be saying "You can't do this." I personally don't believe in preventing others from using symbols like the [flag that sort of looks like one of the various Confederate battle flags although usually the wrong shape and/or having the wrong color blue] because it makes it harder for everyone else to identify those who would use it as the idiots they are.

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DejaHo wrote:


Dresden wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


DejaHo wrote:

In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

None of your examples ar symbols of atrocity.. You have: a stolen holiday, a sybmbol of equality and love, and a countries flag.

And you Godwin'ed the thread with your first post.

 

I disagree... it's not a Godwin when it's a fair comparison.

...Dres

Do you really think Nazi Germany = Southern CSA?

It is a totally disproportionate analogy.  I am not a southerner, but I never made the leap to equate the two.

Probably because you're white?

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Dresden wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


DejaHo wrote:

In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

None of your examples ar symbols of atrocity.. You have: a stolen holiday, a sybmbol of equality and love, and a countries flag.

And you Godwin'ed the thread with your first post.

 

I disagree... it's not a Godwin when it's a fair comparison.

...Dres

Do you really think Nazi Germany = Southern CSA?

It is a totally disproportionate analogy.  I am not a southerner, but I never made the leap to equate the two.

Probably because you're white?

I am white.  Are you telling me I should not be proud to be white because it offends others?  Right.

I don't fly the confederate flag, or the rainbow, or celebrate Christmas. . . but I have the right to do so if I so choose. 

 

 

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DejaHo wrote:

How about we rename all the streets named after CSA Generals - Lee, Jackson, just to name two.  Let's put the entire civil war behind us and pretend like it never happened.

Is there a Benedict Arnold street in your neighborhood? I find it ironic that there are at least two major U.S. Army military bases named after failed revolutionaries who technically committed treason [Forts Bragg and Hood] - although I have to admit John Bell Hood's incompetence leading the Army of Tennessee at Atlanta was a major factor in guaranteeing the Union's victory in the war.

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DejaHo wrote:


Theresa Tennyson wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Dresden wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


DejaHo wrote:

In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

None of your examples ar symbols of atrocity.. You have: a stolen holiday, a sybmbol of equality and love, and a countries flag.

And you Godwin'ed the thread with your first post.

 

I disagree... it's not a Godwin when it's a fair comparison.

...Dres

Do you really think Nazi Germany = Southern CSA?

It is a totally disproportionate analogy.  I am not a southerner, but I never made the leap to equate the two.

Probably because you're white?

I am white.  Are you telling me I should not be proud to be white because it offends others?  Right.

I don't fly the confederate flag, or the rainbow, or celebrate Christmas. . . but I have the right to do so if I so choose. 

 

 

I am in no way saying you shouldn't be proud or fly any symbol you like, just pointing out a possible reason for your "not making the leap" you mentioned. Shouldn't a German have the right to fly a flag that represents the period of Germany's highest power in world affairs as evidence of his/her ethnic pride?

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


Dresden wrote:

I ask the following questions not to be incendiary, but because I honestly believe that doing so might actually start an interesting discussion:

Considering recent events, do you believe that Linden Lab should follow the likes of Wal-mart, Target, Amazon and Etsy, henceforth banning the sale (and perhaps even existence) of any creation containing the image of the confederate battle flag from its services?  And, of course, why/why not?

...Dres

ETA: the word battle.

Wal-Mart, Target and Amazon are independent entities - they are saying "
I won't
do this." In Second Life, Linden Lab is the
de facto
government - they'd be saying "
You can't
do this." I personally don't believe in preventing others from using symbols like the [flag that sort of looks like one of the various Confederate battle flags although usually the wrong shape and/or having the wrong color blue] because it makes it harder for everyone else to identify those who would use it as the idiots they are.

What about Etsy?  Aren't they saying "You can't do this"?  But, I agree with you that, as independent entities, companies have the right to choose what they want to allow and disallow.  I just don't see how that's any different for Linden Lab.

...Dres

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Theresa Tennyson wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Dresden wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


DejaHo wrote:

In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

None of your examples ar symbols of atrocity.. You have: a stolen holiday, a sybmbol of equality and love, and a countries flag.

And you Godwin'ed the thread with your first post.

 

I disagree... it's not a Godwin when it's a fair comparison.

...Dres

Do you really think Nazi Germany = Southern CSA?

It is a totally disproportionate analogy.  I am not a southerner, but I never made the leap to equate the two.

Probably because you're white?

I am white.  Are you telling me I should not be proud to be white because it offends others?  Right.

I don't fly the confederate flag, or the rainbow, or celebrate Christmas. . . but I have the right to do so if I so choose. 

 

 

. Shouldn't a German have the right to fly a flag that represents the period of Germany's highest power in world affairs as evidence of his/her ethnic pride?

What?  This ain't Germany.  However, the Germans were among the first settlers of this new country.  German was once considered to be the official language of the USA.   The christmas tree is a German introduction to the USA.  Why would any American German want to raise a swastika - it is NOT a symbol of ethnic pride - it is a symbol of ethnic embarrassment.

 

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DejaHo wrote:



What?  This ain't Germany.  However, the Germans were among the first settlers of this new country.  German was once considered to be the official language of the USA.   The christmas tree is a German introduction to the USA.  Why would any American German want to raise a swastika - it is NOT a symbol of ethnic pride - it is a symbol of ethnic embarrassment.

 

But, if a German-American happened to disagree with you, should they be allowed to do so?

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DejaHo wrote:


Dresden wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


DejaHo wrote:

In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

None of your examples ar symbols of atrocity.. You have: a stolen holiday, a sybmbol of equality and love, and a countries flag.

And you Godwin'ed the thread with your first post.

 

I disagree... it's not a Godwin when it's a fair comparison.

...Dres

Do you really think Nazi Germany = Southern CSA?

It is a totally disproportionate analogy.  I am not a southerner, but I never made the leap to equate the two.

I'm less concerned about the meaning behind the confederate battle flag at the time of its creation, than I am with its use as a symbol of support for segregation by blatant, white supremacists during the civil rights movement of the 60's.  If it wasn't before, that alone reduces it to a symbol of hatred in my eyes.  So, no... I in no way believe that analogy to be disproportionate.

...Dres

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DejaHo wrote:


Theresa Tennyson wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Theresa Tennyson wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Dresden wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


DejaHo wrote:

In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

None of your examples ar symbols of atrocity.. You have: a stolen holiday, a sybmbol of equality and love, and a countries flag.

And you Godwin'ed the thread with your first post.

 

I disagree... it's not a Godwin when it's a fair comparison.

...Dres

Do you really think Nazi Germany = Southern CSA?

It is a totally disproportionate analogy.  I am not a southerner, but I never made the leap to equate the two.

Probably because you're white?

I am white.  Are you telling me I should not be proud to be white because it offends others?  Right.

I don't fly the confederate flag, or the rainbow, or celebrate Christmas. . . but I have the right to do so if I so choose. 

 

 

. Shouldn't a German have the right to fly a flag that represents the period of Germany's highest power in world affairs as evidence of his/her ethnic pride?

What?  This ain't Germany.  However, the Germans were among the first settlers of this new country.  German was once considered to be the official language of the USA.   The christmas tree is a German introduction to the USA.  Why would any American German want to raise a swastika - it is NOT a symbol of ethnic pride - it is a symbol of ethnic embarrassment.

Perhaps you're laboring under the misconception that the confederate battle flag is simply a symbol of Southern pride... it's not.

...Dres

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Dresden wrote:


Theresa Tennyson wrote:


Dresden wrote:

I ask the following questions not to be incendiary, but because I honestly believe that doing so might actually start an interesting discussion:

Considering recent events, do you believe that Linden Lab should follow the likes of Wal-mart, Target, Amazon and Etsy, henceforth banning the sale (and perhaps even existence) of any creation containing the image of the confederate battle flag from its services?  And, of course, why/why not?

...Dres

ETA: the word battle.

Wal-Mart, Target and Amazon are independent entities - they are saying "
I won't
do this." In Second Life, Linden Lab is the
de facto
government - they'd be saying "
You can't
do this." I personally don't believe in preventing others from using symbols like the [flag that sort of looks like one of the various Confederate battle flags although usually the wrong shape and/or having the wrong color blue] because it makes it harder for everyone else to identify those who would use it as the idiots they are.

What about Etsy?  Aren't they saying "You can't do this"?  But, I agree with you that, as independent entities, companies have the right to choose what they want to allow and disallow.  I just don't see how that's any different for Linden Lab.

...Dres

Etsy is sort of an edge case, because they're preventing others from doing things on that service but the sellers are free to use another service. I'm not saying that Linden Lab wouldn't be within their rights to purge variations on the Confederate Battle Flag, just I feel it would be a bad and impractical idea. If Linden Lab banned all sorts of idiotic, offensive behavior in Second Life it would be even emptier than it is now.

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Dresden wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Theresa Tennyson wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Theresa Tennyson wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Dresden wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


DejaHo wrote:

In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

None of your examples ar symbols of atrocity.. You have: a stolen holiday, a sybmbol of equality and love, and a countries flag.

And you Godwin'ed the thread with your first post.

 

I disagree... it's not a Godwin when it's a fair comparison.

...Dres

Do you really think Nazi Germany = Southern CSA?

It is a totally disproportionate analogy.  I am not a southerner, but I never made the leap to equate the two.

Probably because you're white?

I am white.  Are you telling me I should not be proud to be white because it offends others?  Right.

I don't fly the confederate flag, or the rainbow, or celebrate Christmas. . . but I have the right to do so if I so choose. 

 

 

. Shouldn't a German have the right to fly a flag that represents the period of Germany's highest power in world affairs as evidence of his/her ethnic pride?

What?  This ain't Germany.  However, the Germans were among the first settlers of this new country.  German was once considered to be the official language of the USA.   The christmas tree is a German introduction to the USA.  Why would any American German want to raise a swastika - it is NOT a symbol of ethnic pride - it is a symbol of ethnic embarrassment.

Perhaps you're laboring under the misconception that the confederate battle flag is simply a symbol of Southern pride... it's not
.

...Dres

Perhaps I am Dres.  This is what I have been taught.  This is what I witness.

Yes, there are those who abuse and misconstrue its meaning to support their own hatred, but I do not.

 

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DejaHo wrote:



Perhaps you're laboring under the misconception that the confederate battle flag is simply a symbol of Southern pride... it's not
.

...Dres

Perhaps I am Dres.  This is what I have been taught.  This is what I witness.

Yes, there are those who abuse and misconstrue its meaning to support their own hatred, but I do not.

 

What if what you've been taught is wrong? What if what you've witnessed is incomplete? What if it's actually you who's misconstruing the meaning?

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DejaHo wrote:


Dresden wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Theresa Tennyson wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Theresa Tennyson wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Dresden wrote:


DejaHo wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


DejaHo wrote:

In a PC world, humor is a capital offense.

No, LL should not follow the likes of others and ban images of the confederate flag.

What's next banning Christmas perhaps?  The rainbow flag?  How about the Russian flag raised at the UN?

Wal-mart and others are following the John Ashcroft model - cover all the naked statues . . .

 

None of your examples ar symbols of atrocity.. You have: a stolen holiday, a sybmbol of equality and love, and a countries flag.

And you Godwin'ed the thread with your first post.

 

I disagree... it's not a Godwin when it's a fair comparison.

...Dres

Do you really think Nazi Germany = Southern CSA?

It is a totally disproportionate analogy.  I am not a southerner, but I never made the leap to equate the two.

Probably because you're white?

I am white.  Are you telling me I should not be proud to be white because it offends others?  Right.

I don't fly the confederate flag, or the rainbow, or celebrate Christmas. . . but I have the right to do so if I so choose. 

 

 

. Shouldn't a German have the right to fly a flag that represents the period of Germany's highest power in world affairs as evidence of his/her ethnic pride?

What?  This ain't Germany.  However, the Germans were among the first settlers of this new country.  German was once considered to be the official language of the USA.   The christmas tree is a German introduction to the USA.  Why would any American German want to raise a swastika - it is NOT a symbol of ethnic pride - it is a symbol of ethnic embarrassment.

Perhaps you're laboring under the misconception that the confederate battle flag is simply a symbol of Southern pride... it's not
.

...Dres

Perhaps I am Dres.  This is what I have been taught.  This is what I witness.

Yes, there are those who abuse and misconstrue its meaning to support their own hatred, but I do not.

 

I was born and raised in the deep south and I assure you, there's nothing to misconstrue.  The Southern pride thing is a convenient cover story.  Everyone knows what that flag really symbolizes, they just don't talk about it in mixed company.

...Dres

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I doub't LL will do anything unless it is reported.

 

Personally, I know what that flag represents, both good and bad. I would rather not see it banned and it has nothing to do with the flag itself or what it might represent in the best possible spin.  This whole Political Correctness bull crap is just too 1984 for me.  We are just a heartbeat away from being a fundamentalist theocracy as it is.  The more you can squeeze out the ability to express a different opinion the harder it is to make a peaceful change. 

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Take down all the flags. Why stop with just one historically embarassing war?

All flags are silly, all promote division and all represent exploitation and government-endorsed violence.

For clarity: I don't agree with "bans", most flags are just abstract shapes and patterns (also I'm not sure this is a service provider issue, LL only own the pipes). Just de-legitimising them (as they are in SL already) should be plenty.

Yours insincerely,

Nota U. S. Citizen

P.S. I'm sending Eddie Izzard in to help:-

 

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Ok here is my take on the confederate flag. It is a part of our history as a nation. Not a very pleasent part of history but a part of history none the less. That said, it belongs in a museum and not some state building. You don't see people flying the nazi flag do you? As for LL's banning the confederate flag goes, we still have freedoms in this country and that includes the freedom to own one of those flags thats contravercial.

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