clivesteel Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The backlash starts TODAY!Using my investigative alt, created today, I have enquired about several SL jobs.Quite frankly, what I've discovered disgusts me.A DJ undertaking a two-hour set, for instance, is expected to make do on 'tips'. I asked how much one earns on average and was told "can be around 500$L". This is US$2.02 for two hours' work.Would you expect a RL DJ to work for this??? Of course not. Yet, the work and time involved are exactly the same.The UK minimum wage is £6.50 per hour, which translates to US$10.32. Therefore, the criminals who run these clubs should be paying AT LEAST 2,559$L per hour, or just over 5,000$L for a full two-hour set. Otherwise - this is slave labour - pure and simple.According to payscale.com, the average UK DJ earns £27.50 per hour as a median wage. In other words, SL employers should pay, AT LEAST, $L21,654 for a two-hour set."This is just a game" you reply.Wrong, TIME IS TIME. The average SL DJ probably does as much work as a RL one. It makes no difference whether you put in two hours of work online or in McDonalds.So you see, SL employers are guilty of the most heinous abuse of human labour!! And nobody has the brains or guts to pull them up on it!TIME to campaign for a fair wage on SL - pay your employees what you owe them. I call on ALL DJs, hosts, dancers and SL workers to withdraw their labour and refuse to work on SL unless you are paid at least $L2,559 per hour. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 clivesteel wrote: The backlash starts TODAY! Using my investigative alt, created today, I have enquired about several SL jobs. Quite frankly, what I've discovered disgusts me. A DJ undertaking a two-hour set, for instance, is expected to make do on 'tips'. I asked how much one earns on average and was told "can be around 500$L". This is US$2.02 for two hours' work. Would you expect a RL DJ to work for this??? Of course not. Yet, the work and time involved are exactly the same. The UK minimum wage is £6.50 per hour, which translates to US$10.32. Therefore, the criminals who run these clubs should be paying AT LEAST 2,559$L per hour, or just over 5,000$L for a full two-hour set. Otherwise - this is slave labour - pure and simple. According to payscale.com, the average UK DJ earns £27.50 per hour as a median wage. In other words, SL employers should pay, AT LEAST, $L21,654 for a two-hour set. "This is just a game" you reply. Wrong, TIME IS TIME. The average SL DJ probably does as much work as a RL one. It makes no difference whether you put in two hours of work online or in McDonalds. So you see, SL employers are guilty of the most heinous abuse of human labour!! And nobody has the brains or guts to pull them up on it! TIME to campaign for a fair wage on SL - pay your employees what you owe them. I call on ALL DJs, hosts, dancers and SL workers to withdraw their labour and refuse to work on SL unless you are paid at least $L2,559 per hour. Yowza! And to be fair to everyone, landlords should start charging L$200,000 a month for an apartment-sized lot and a modest SL automobile will start at around L$3,750,000. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I've got a better idea: Start a class action lawsuit! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 And I'd like to applaud your investigative skills! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda Huntress Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 clivesteel wrote: According to payscale.com, the average UK DJ earns £27.50 per hour as a median wage. In other words, SL employers should pay, AT LEAST, $L21,654 for a two-hour set. And has an audience of around 10,000 to 50,000 at any given time. A SL DJ has abut 40 listeners tops. Subtract minus bots, other employees and whoot spammers count as minus 2. Once you divide it all out, an SL DJ should be paying to the venue 1,273 L$ an hour. ::matte-motes-evil-invert: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamara Artis Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I will pay you an hourly wage plus tips if you come here with your main avi and show you have some b****, at least one lol Where is the catch with creating that alt? I mean, why you couldn't investigate things on your main avi? Or was it about the posting here? As I understand, you're a DJ in SL and would like to earn more than just tips. Are you a DJ in real life too? Cheap work exists because there are people willing to work for pennies. SL DJ can work from his home, he doesn't need to buy gasoline or a nice clothing, he doesn't have to pay the taxi or a bus. On top of all, if he was good enough to get bookings in real life he wouldn't bother to work here, or complain if he choses to do it anyway, for free. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Ugh. You owe anyone and everyone who took the TIME (TIME IS TIME, after all) to read that tripe L$42.65 for the sixty seconds that they'll never get back. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dree Eames Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Your creative use of mixed fonts, text size, colors, "all caps", italics and boldface has convinced me you are passionate about this topic. Perhaps every unhappy, unappreciated and underpaid ("U.U.U.") worker in SL could protest by shutting off their computer and finding a well paid job in RL. (file that under: "who's stopping them?") Or, alternatively, they might opt to spend more with their neglected cat. Personally, the vast number of participants in SL who have an interest in such an activity would eagerly D.J. for free just for the convenience of performing the job at home sitting in their underwear in front of their computer. RL D.J.s have transportation issues and wardrobe considerations to concern themselves with. I suggest you watch this D.J. related video as recompense: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 How many of those DJs actually do things legally? Do they pay for the rights to play the music, or just dl from the 'net, itunes, or youtube? Odds are, most if not all of the DJs you have run into, don't pay for the music they use, or IF they do, they merely pay for the song once(itunes, for example) and then never pay for it again. Owning it doesn't actually give one license to broadcast, lol. Most people that DJ don't do it for a living, they do it because they enjoy it. Until, or unless, they do it as a rl job and follow all the regulations and laws required of rl DJs, they aren't going to get paid a rl wage, lol. it's silly to suggest they should. I'm not knocking DJs in sl here, by any means, but your idea of a "fair wage" doesn't exactly apply to the situation in which you chose to apply it, lol. You can't really compare a rl DJ to an sl DJ. Yes, time is money, and if people believe their time is worth more, they'd seek out ways to make more, now wouldn't they? I sure as heck wouldn't work for minimum wage if I thought my work was worth far more. People CHOOSE to make those wages, not because there is no alternative, but because those wages work for them and their sl(sometimes rl) monetary desires. Many sl DJs merely use their earnings as a way to supplement or completely fulfill their sl needs(land, stuff, etc.). I'm not so sure you're going to get really far with your crusade, but good luck with it! As an aside, if I were to pay someone a rl wage, for anything in sl, I would expect rl work being put into it. I have no problems at all paying people what their time is really worth, but the effort has to be made to make it worthwhile. If I were to pay an sl DJ rl DJ wages, you can bet your butt that person will be following all laws, regulations and rules already set forth for rl DJs. I'm not paying someone those kinds of wages to sit and let the playlist do most of the work, with some(or in some cases, little to no) interaction on their part, lol. My playlist with pre-recorded voice overs can do the same thing Of course there are some DJs who go above and beyond the norm, they typically make more (sometimes quite a bit more) in tips too, especially if they work more than one venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebejee Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Agree pay needs to be raised, DJ, live performers and managers specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 ANNND !!!! all clubs should be required to make patrons pay a door charge (can do this already in the parcel settings). Like $US20 (5,000L) to get in OR !!!! you have to buy a drink every 30 mins (at least) for like $US10 each (L2,500) or the bouncer boot you out (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Sure pay everyone a RL wage. Then club owners will charge a RL cover charge because clubs don't make any money as it is. Creators will charge RL prices for things, rents will increase to RL rental rates so these folks can afford to go to a club and pay their staff..... You too can have a virtual Island with a virtual luxury house for only $2,950,000. Most DJ's in SL are not professionals they do it because they love music. If I go to a club and have to pay a RL amount to get in, I want a professional DJ! Most DJ's would be out of work immediately. Please go back and take a Economy 101 class. "The economy, stupid!" - James Carville for the Bill Clinton campaign 1992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttacwup Float Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I am just going to assume that this is a funny funny joke. Yes? Was good for a laugh for sure. +1 to the comments in charging a cover charge that's about the only way something like this is anything but a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Now try explaining the same argument for pay when someone feels entitled to a custom mesh avatar commission and yet who feels that creators expecting or even daring to ask for more than a handful of $ for a weeks work is unreasonable and greedy for what is a game. Hint: you don't have to work in SL. Not sure if you're aware of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The entitled feel like they should pay you SL wages for real work and make RL wages doing an easy job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Faulds Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Rather than compare RL to SL , compare SL to SL. You get paid 500L. Now...what can you buy in SL for that 500L? A great pair of shoes? A nice jacket or suit, depending on where you go. Compartatively speaking, in RL terms you'd get enough to get a cheap pair of shoes or knock off jeans. In SL with the 500L you get, you can get a really nice pair of shoes or boots, great texture change mesh pants, a decent skin, at least one if not 2 nice hair styles...the list goes on. So, rather than ranting about not making a RL wage, compare what you make in SL with what you can buy with it in SL as opposed to what you can buy in RL with the RL equivalent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheriColette Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 After paying rent and buying clothes etc....I have little $$ left to go out and drop tips on dj's. I think they do marvelous work but now Im embarrassed that I cant 'pay' them, so Ive stopped going to clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 CheriColette wrote: After paying rent and buying clothes etc....I have little $$ left to go out and drop tips on dj's. I think they do marvelous work but now Im embarrassed that I cant 'pay' them, so Ive stopped going to clubs. this is a big reason why people dont go to clubs. The embarrassment they feel when they got nothing to tip with. Is a self-imposed feeling this but it is real not even that they got nothing but also when they feel they dont have enough like I was at this club last night this lady tipped the DJ. DJ goes thanks then the lady says: sorry am a bit broke this week (is a whole heap going on behind this lady feeling the need to say this) the DJ then says: i dont DJ for tips. I just it do it bc I enjoy it (is another whole heap going on behind the DJ feeling the need to say this) bc when the DJ said this I immediate think: why have you got a tip jar out then ?! + ps. I dont tip staff myself personally. Never have. If I got any money I put it in the venue donation box 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinda Fallen Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 No doubt this DJ made the remark to try and make her feel better, not to say he or she would want to give up tips completely. Going to clubs, and seeing the cash outlay just to get folks in, personally rankles me, its hard to watch the club owners have to pay folks to come to their clubs to have a good time. To me if you win a contest, or some sort of cash prize, part of that should go back to those that have given of their time and talents to entertain you. Not tipping in this instance is just plain rude. Owning an entertainment company in SL, we see crowds of 40 or more come to our shows, and for the most part only 5-10% of those tip, and it is usually the same people. I understand some people do not have the money to tip, but when we get a $20L tip sometimes i look at it as the highest form of compliment. That person could probably not afford to tip, but made the effort anyway to let us know our show was entertaining and they enjoyed it. Playing SL, is an entertainment source everyone can budget into their lives, $5 USD a week will buy you about $1250 L and most ppl if they shop well, and find a modest rental, could still afford to tip. I think most assume SL is like TV and should be totally free, and are constantly looking for ways to get something for nothing. I do feel for those that will not go out because they are lacking Linden, but right now if you're working in SL, tipping has taken a nose dive, so even if you do find a job here, and there's a base salary, don't count on much more than that for your efforts. I find it also incredible to see those really well made avatars with their 4K mesh bodies, 2K outfits, expensive hair and shoes that consistently never drop a dime into a tip jar, and i see this not only at our shows but in clubs and other venues as well. While i don't agree tipping is the best way to go for payment of services in SL, it is at this point so ingrained into our Second Lifestyle i am not sure if it could be changed to any other way. But as an entertainer in SL, we will soon have to increase our prices to the venue, so we can pay our employees a decent wage for their time, because the tip split we pay out at the end of the show is becoming more and more meager. I am totally sure this will decrease our performances, and the GP of SL will have even less entertainment provided to them, but i can not in good conscience ask any one of our employees to give up hours of their lives and not pay them as fairly as we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Faulds Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 My main statement for the OP...if you want to be paid a RL wage...work in RL. SL money comes from players, not profit from selling stuff for the most part. 500L for a 2 hours set is good. Side question, does the venue provide a stream or are you having to provide your own? Keep that in mind if you want to DJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeKingleigh Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I'm a Marxist, and believe that you should be rewarded for the value you add to production. Joe /That means DJs get nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Crisp Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Are you representing a specific labor union? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irihapeti Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 you make some good points in what you wrote i just expand the chat a bit + my indifference to tipping staff is a RL thing. Where I live (NZ) is just not in our culture to do this as a method of paying workers. Is some restaurants where the owners try to do this, (usually bc they have been overseas and then come home) but it meets with mixed success. Tourists from other countries where tipping is a societal practice will tip in these establishments. But if they stay here for any length of time beyond their hols then they stop doing it we expect that the employer will pay their staff reasonably and that we will pay the employer/provider a reasonable amount for the service. If the employer is unable to make a sustainable business this way then the business will fold. The capital and efforts of the shareholder/owners redirected into more fruitful/productive areas. The staff will go elsewhere for employment. The customers elsewhere for that service/product the ideological underpinning being that if your business can only be profitable by employing slave labour (zero remuneration or hours contracts) then this business is a burden on the society as a whole and sometimes we (meaning me as well) end up in activist actions to make this point known to multi-national brands. Altho to be fair to multi-nationals, is not so much the corporate office from where the kickback comes the strongest. It actual comes strongest from the franchisees who wish to jump into the money stream that a well-recognised brand can generate. People who look to take the easier path to making money for themself. Is not easy easy this, but is easier than building a competing business from scratch + compared to some other countries we have quite a high mandated minimum wage. The ideology underpinning this is that if this were not the case then we would not as a society be able to afford the fairly comprehensive social support services systems we do have, to help people when they need help the most and further that when employers do pay less than a wage that their staff need to sustain themselfs, then the State support services have to top up those staff incomes so that they can sustain (like actual live). When staff get paid wages below sustenance then the top up money is actual paid by other businesses, their workers and capital holders. Paid out of their tax money pretty much most business owners understand this. They dont disagree with mandated min wage. If there is a argument then is mostly about how much that should be. Is some outlier people who always want to dispute the whole ideological underpinnings but is pretty much academic that debate. Academic meaning that is no practical outcome as a result of the debate + we do tho have a culture of koha. gifting. Koha as a practice is typically aimed at the venue, a venue that provides a societal benefit, not available from the State or thru business. Koha to help defray the costs of sustaining the venue. Venue not just being a physical building but also a venue/channel for the societal benefit provided. Charities for example basically we make a real distinction between a charity and a business and act on this distinction. Same as lots of other countries/peoples do + so I think that when chatting about SL clubs then the question is: Are you running a business or a charity? if a business then you need to act like a business and charge for the service provided. Which you can do thru the land controls, or have a doorman when people teleport in. Pay the doorman the fee to enter the club or get ejected. Pay a regular club membership fee, etc if a charity then you get what you get money-wise. Nobody is obliged to support with money your charitable venue/works that you chose to provide. If to keep your charity going and u have to pay for it yourself and your staff also help by working as volunteers meeting their own personal costs then thats how it goes on the months that you do/might get a koha surplus exceeding your base costs then can always make a disbursement to them out of that other thing is that the staff/owners/etc are not the charity recipients. The patrons are. The people who come to your sim/venue. Same RL. Same SL + just to answer the plaintive: "but if I charge a door fee nobody will come" welcome to business in the RL there are 3 live performers in SL who I would pay a door/concert fee to hear. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasmyn Vaher Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I was going to post pretty much the same, though with other words. The OP seems to miss the main point in this subject... SL IS NOT RL. And to equate both is only a mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I understand and respect your culture of non tipping. Most would be better off if that were adopted world wide IMO. However that is not the culture of SL. When in Rome do as the Romans do. I wouldn't classify a club a a charity, even if the owner has to pay more than they get in. It is more like a hobby. You need to love being a club owner because it is hard work if you are doing it right. A lot of hobbyist sell what they make to help defray expenses and if it gets to the point that they can't afford the hobby anymore then they have to give it up. That's why so many clubs fail in SL. As far as DJ's they have the expense of maintaining a stream because most clubs don't provide one and paying for the music downloads. streaming software etc. Even if the club provides a stream, it is good to have a personal stream as a backup in case the house stream goes down. Sure, most DJ's do it for the love of music. However they do work for tips, even if they just want enough to cover the cost of a stream and the music they have to download. If they don't get enough they leave and go elsewhere or stop DJ'ing. Either way the customer loses when good DJ's are no longer available. Everyone should tip unless the person is doing a lousy job or you really don't have the money. You can still show your appreciation to the staff and owner if you have no money by recommending the club and bringing your friends there. It is the small percentage of customer's that tip the staff and the club who keep entertainment of this type available in SL. If everyone didn't tip, there would be far fewer or no clubs in SL. It amazes me that most people don't mind paying for entertainment in RL, but think it should be free in SL. They pay $10 for a movie in RL, but balk at spending a few pennies for entertainment in SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.