Is there a Web Client or Cloud rendered client ?

[beschier]

Is there a working web client or cloud rendered client (besides the beta test of linden) to log in to sl without having to install software ?

i'm asking this because i tried to install the default sl viewer and also all other 3th party viewers on serveral windows server machines, but each time there are errors like:  invalid win32 ,  intergrity fails, or nothing happens at all, or have to be administrator, or the 32 bit colour error demanding a videocard (which a vps never has).

therefor i'm looking for another way to be able to enjoy sl without a videocard (in a vps for instance), or without being admin.

i have been reading , asking and googling for many many hours on this subject (in world to the firestorm developers, the irc chat channel, and many other 3th party pages) but no luck yet.

if anybody has tips or help on this matter please let me know.

 

thank you

[Freya Mokusei]

I'm not sure I understand the value of trying to run full-3D applications on a system without a video card, but the only alternative I can think of would be one of the text-only/limited featureset viewers available through the Third Party Viewer Directory.

They would give you a pretty non-representative view of Second Life however, because it is a full-3D virtual world.

At present, all solutions expect installation rights on the target system. You might find success in avoiding the operating system of your target system entirely, and booting from a temporary image of Linux (via USB, for example). This seems smoother than dealing with needless restrictions. There is guidance available for this process available online.

There used to be a cloud-rendered solution called SLGo, operated by OnLive. Support for this service was closed last month, after it was acquired by Sony Entertainment.

[beschier]

Thank you for your quick reply to my question.

First of all, the reason why i want to run it on a server/web based is so that at work i can do some maintenance or help other in world without having to enjoy great 3d graphics as long as there is functionality.

The text based clients wont let me touch objects in world though, for instance clicking on scripted object that will respond on that.

So still i wonder if i would be administrator on a windows server 2003 or 2008 for instance, if than it would be possible to go in world.

Also is there a work around for sl on a VPS, since there is no actual videocard with videomemory on that ?

obviously i wouldnt mind if the sl world would look ugly and slow or even 2d, but i can't believe there is no way that it's really impossible since even an old smartphone can run sl so why not a strong windows server/vps ? 

i mean somehow cloud rendering or some kind of emulator or virtual videocard and so on should be possible right?

So please if anybody has tips or ideas how to still make it possible, let me know

And i can give you access to the remote desktop if anyone is willing to try to install a viewer and test it on windows server.

Thank you,

 

regards,

 

Beschier

[Inara Pey]

Short answer:

No, there isn't - at the moment.

Longer answer:

In terms of streamed solutions, the Lab experimented with a streamed service to web browsers in 2010. But it never went beyond a closed beta, as there were significant technical hurdles which couldn't be cleared.

More recently, OnLive provided a steamed solution using their SL Go service. This allows high-quality SL access via a small-footprint gaming application on low-end computers or via an Android / iOS app for mobile decives. Unfortunately, that service is closed after OnLive had to put itself forward for acquisition (cutting a further long story short!).

Since that time, there have been some looks at cloud-based services.

I initially wrote about the possibility of using Amazon AppStream at the start of April 2015, which lead to an initial trial later that month on the part of a a couple of users.

More particularly, it led to an invitation from Nikola Bozinovic, owner of cloud-based applications provider FRAME to try his service for using the viewer through the cloud. I did so for myself, running the viewer entirely unoptimised, utilising Frame's AWS presence in Ireland.

However, there is currently an attempt underway to provide an optimised, streamed service using Frame's services overlaying AWS infrastructure. This is called Bright Canopy, and like the SL Go services, is a third-party service, not something being activiely pursued by Linden Lab. Bright Canopy is in its earliest days, although Tuesday, May 18th marks the service's move to a "pre-launch" test phase. 

One of the problems facing anyone providing a cloud-based solution for accessing SL (outside of potential technical issues such as latency, etc.), is that of pricing. SL Go, as a streamed service, was charged for at the flat rate of US $9.95 a month for unlimited access (although it initially launched with a pay-as-you-go  / sliding scale payment system), and this has become something of a yardstick. 

However, most suppliers of cloud-based services, currently tend to charge by the hour. Amazon AppStream, for example, charges at the rate of US $0.83 per hour. Obviously, such a price point isn't attractive when it comes to an environment such as Second Life - but so long as such services do use such pricing systems, then they are very hard to avoid.

For example, Bright Canopy will be operating at an hourly rate of US $0.79 during the pre-launch phase, as they have to cover their underpinnig Frame and AWS fees.It is, however, hoped that a more ameniable / flexible pricing can be introduced in future. The question is, how ameniable any price can be, given there are the underpinning costs to meet?

People have pointed to SL Go's US $9.95 a month as being reasonable, as mentioned. But there's a flip side to this; and that is the fact that OnLive, as SL Go's operator had to put itself up for acquisition simply because charging that kind of rate across their core services (SL Go and CloudLift, with PlayPack offered at US $6.95 a month), left them unable to generate sufficient revenue to break even.

Thus, pricing, perhaps more than technical issues, may actually prove to be the defining factor as to whether cloud-based access to SL might be supplied reasonably enough for people to use it. At least until cloud services themselves are seen to become more cost-attractive to end users.

 

[gunmaker]

there was a cloud server for secondlife known as sl-go

sony didnt like the fact that secondlife was annhiliating their business flow and it wasnt owned by secondlife

so they fooled the developers into selling it to them and emmediatly shut it down

--nvm that sl was showing conversion profit margins of 1000us$ per day at the LOWEST

they should have sold to secondlife pr at least have asked secondlife to compete the price.

heard the the company was valued and sold for 200kus$. pretty sure secondlife would have been overjoyed to have it.

 

 

--the fun thing is that you cant copyright cloudserver technology or pretend to own secondlife if you dont, so secondlife can simply start its OWN cloud server business. forward this to proper people.

[xxRav666xx]

And you would have thought  that maybe SL would get something like that going tohelpout the people that can nolonger get on SL

[Freya Mokusei]

---

xxRav666xx wrote:

And you would have thought

---

Well, you might've thought that.

I've been around long enough to see Second Life unintentionally (and intentionally) kill any service that has tried to improve compatibility, over the years.

Along a long enough time line, everyone stops trying.

[Sassy Romano]

---

beschier wrote:

First of all, the reason why i want to run it on a server/web based is so that at work i can do some maintenance or help other in world without having to enjoy great 3d graphics as long as there is functionality.

The text based clients wont let me touch objects in world though, for instance clicking on scripted object that will respond on that.

So still i wonder if i would be administrator on a windows server 2003 or 2008 for instance, if than it would be possible to go in world.

i mean somehow cloud rendering or some kind of emulator or virtual videocard and so on should be possible right?

So please if anybody has tips or ideas how to still make it possible, let me know

And i can give you access to the remote desktop if anyone is willing to try to install a viewer and test it on windows server.

---

First of all, depending on which text viewer, they CAN let you touch objects, however, forgive me for being hugely critical and judgemental here but just to ask the questions:-

You're a user with rights to log on to a server at work, maybe/maybe not as administrator...you want to run a non server type piece of software purely for personal use on a server...you're willing to offer a remote desktop to unknown people in order to install unknown software from an unverified source...

Just buy an inexpensive Windows tablet PC, simple solution.  Mine runs the SL client graphically, seems like the simple and effective solution to me.

[beschier]

Unfortonately my boss doesn't like to see personal stuff like cellphones or tablets on the desks and also i don't sit at the same desk constantly. Than again logging into a game is allowed when there is time or just lunch break.

And giving access to a user account to strangers is no problem since we give test accounts to potential clients also and there is enough security.

Anyways, radegast text based viewer is functional enough to touch items so in a way that works out for me.

Still if somebody does know a way to see SL graphically on a windows server 2003 or VPS i'd love to hear how.

[Sassy Romano]

That is one whacked organisation! 

So they don't want you to use a personal device in non company time but are happy to let you run non corporate software on server platforms?

um wow...

Not security conscious at all then.  I'd say "but it's none of my business" but I don't know if it is.  Web facing stuff and we all use web stuff... it could well be.

[Freya Mokusei]

---

Sassy Romano wrote:

That is one whacked organisation! 

---

SOP for anyone working with selling servers, telecoms, etc, though.

There's no risk to the boxes 'cause everything can be VM'd or re-imaged. Security's high across the network, "non-corporate software" isn't risky unless you're playing with integrated systems these days, no sys-admin would fear random-app.exe. Unless you're working in the 1990s no-one's going to bat an eye at someone wanting to play around during downtime.

Truth is that if a little internal recreation can compromise the network then you're doing corporate networking wrong. Someone will download Ask Toolbar through your wires sooner or later.

Personal devices involve risk 'cause they can be used for unmanaged data transmission - tho TBH I don't know many places who don't have BYOD options these days. I'd guess anywhere doing data storage would have issues.

My only concern would be people using Internet-facing boxes that are still running Server 2003.

Anyway, just observations.

[Sassy Romano]

That is relying on the hypervisor being resistant to advanced attack.  Hypervisors are an attack vector.  Plus since that client will be communicating through the network, there's another attack vector.

Personal devices off corporate networks are the standard way of isolation within security conscious environments.

My comments stand.

[Freya Mokusei]

Sure sure! Not arguing, just my two cents.

The OP says their networks are sometimes used insecurely as part of their model (not unusual). Would imagine this risk is weighed by someone who's paid in money and knows their stuff. Playing with software isn't likely to happen in the same network space as corporate accounts or personal data.

[Sassy Romano]

---

Freya Mokusei wrote:

Playing with software isn't likely to happen in the same network space as corporate accounts or personal data.

---

Many a corporate has believed the same! :matte-motes-nerdy:

[R136a1]

I just set up a remote desktop connection to my home PC. I load one or two instances of Firestorm before leaving to the office, and then log in from there. 

And, Lumia on my phone.

Not that I'm addicted or anything