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Eric Castanea

LL - Please don't force viewer 2 on us

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Suspiria wrote:

 

Eric Castanea wrote:

Please think of your customers, LL. Give us a choice not to use it. Don't force it on us.

LL is not forcing viewer 2 on its customers. There are many options each person can decide upon. :smileywink:

 

For now, LL is not forcing Viewer to on us. In time, it will have no choice. When that time comes, just watch what will happen to concurrency levels then.

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I also dislike it when LL will force us to use V2 based Viewer.. its just a bad usability and for me not a real SL Viewer.

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Yoki Enoch wrote:


Suspiria wrote:

 

Eric Castanea wrote:

Please think of your customers, LL. Give us a choice not to use it. Don't force it on us.

LL is not forcing viewer 2 on its customers. There are many options each person can decide upon. :smileywink:

 

For now, LL is not forcing Viewer to on us. In time, it will have no choice. When that time comes, just watch what will happen to concurrency levels then.

My guess? Viewer 3 will be out by then, likely with a lot of lessons learned (we've already seen some with all the progress V2 has seen in the last year).

 

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I absolutely refuse to use Veiwer 2, Im about ready to cancel my membership after 3 yrs...LL should give people the choice of which they would like to use, especially those of us who are paying for a service and cant stand it!!

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Since  the  forced update nothing works  correct  for me.  My harddisk never stops and  runs on  caching 100 %,  CPU needs from 99 to 100 % only  for SL  Viewer. Even cant  move around or do anything, its all  slow as hell. Cache management is  totally trash.

Changing back  to phoenix helps,  but  cant  be  the  solution to  throw  the  viewer out.

 

Dont  force things,  that are not 100 % approoved and NEEDED.

 

Greetings

 

Carisma :smileymad:

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Brand spanking newbie here, but something I've noticed with V2.5 is, even on a fairly powerful machine, I will get heavy CPU utilization (80%+)  and occasionally I'll see significant lag.  This is on a brand-new quadcore AMD Phenom II, running Win7 64 with the full load of RAM (16GB) and SL installed onto an SSD.  This same box will run any MMO out there at 60fps, only dropping to 40 when the rendering gets intense (highly populated or effects-heavy instances such as raids).  I hardly ever see my CPU usage spike past 15% running any other programs.

I'm not seeing a lot of other people around in SL, maybe three or four per parcel in the business areas and nearly none in my neighborhood, so I'm at a loss as to why the SL Viewer would need so much computing power.  

Are the other viewers any better at managing such things? have any been compiled as 64-bit versions and/or built to use multithreading?  

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"Are the other viewers any better at managing such things?"

 

Most other viewers are far better at handling pretty much anything that Viewer 2.x handles or doesn't handle. Viewer 2.x was perhaps the most poorly designed viewer to have ever come into existence for use in SL. Just read the other posts here - nothing but problems people are having with Viewer 2.x. 

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Viewer 1.23.5 seems to handle any and all HUDs and their associated AOs, quite well.

So, why wasn't any and all improvements aimed at the freedom within our universe of SL HUDs?

And just have one HUD window, like "Viewer Upgrades", to report-on and to activate or deactivate upgrades.

Then all of us would be free to choose how much hype and tripe, we want in our viewers, mates. ;)

 

 

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Yoki Enoch wrote:

Most other viewers are far better at handling pretty much anything that Viewer 2.x handles or doesn't handle. Viewer 2.x was perhaps the most poorly designed viewer to have ever come into existence for use in SL. Just read the other posts here - nothing but problems people are having with Viewer 2.x. 


Or that could just be because those who have problems are more likely to be posting on this type of thread.

 

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Hitomi Tiponi wrote:

 

Yoki Enoch wrote:

Most other viewers are far better at handling pretty much anything that Viewer 2.x handles or doesn't handle. Viewer 2.x was perhaps the most poorly designed viewer to have ever come into existence for use in SL. Just read the other posts here - nothing but problems people are having with Viewer 2.x. 


Or that could just be because those who have problems are more likely to be posting on this type of thread.

 

As they should be.

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Yoki Enoch wrote:

Most other viewers are far better at handling pretty much anything that Viewer 2.x handles or doesn't handle.

 

This is simply false. Users who have issues should be be aware of such misleading and imprecise suggestions.

Current version 2.6 and 2.0 of the official Viewer are so different that such a comment about "Viewer 2.x" doesn't make any sense and only shows bias against the new interface. It seems that the author doesn't bother to follow development of Viewer 2.x.

Such a comment doesn't mention that 1.x viewers lack a number of features (shared media, multi-wearables, location bar, favorites and others) - this is holding back Second Life's development.

Such a comment doesn't take into account how the underlying code has been refactored. We users don't see this, but ask Phoenix and Imprudence developer teams why they're building 2.x - based alternative viewers.

2.x - based viewers aren't perfect and can be improved. They have a future. 

1.x viewer aren't perfect either (anyone using Phoenix and losing stuff from Inventory?...) but they don't have a future. Enjoy your obsolete, feature-lacking viewers while you can and keep blaming Viewer 2. Having something to blame other than our choices doesn't resolve bugs, but can be rewarding and satisfying.

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Opensource Obscure wrote:

 

Yoki Enoch wrote:

Most other viewers are far better at handling pretty much anything that Viewer 2.x handles or doesn't handle.

 

This is simply false. Users who have issues should be be aware of such misleading and imprecise suggestions.

Current version 2.6 and 2.0 of the official Viewer are so different that such a comment about "Viewer 2.x" doesn't make any sense and only shows bias against the new interface. It seems that the author doesn't bother to follow development of Viewer 2.x.

Such a comment doesn't mention that 1.x viewers lack a number of features (shared media, multi-wearables, location bar, favorites and others) - this is holding back Second Life's development.

Such a comment doesn't take into account how the underlying code has been refactored. We users don't see this, but ask Phoenix and Imprudence developer teams why they're building 2.x - based alternative viewers.

2.x - based viewers aren't perfect and can be improved. They have a future. 

1.x viewer aren't perfect either (anyone using Phoenix and losing stuff from Inventory?...) but they don't have a future. Enjoy your obsolete, feature-lacking viewers while you can and keep blaming Viewer 2. Having something to blame other than our choices doesn't resolve bugs, but can be rewarding and satisfying.

I gave Viewer 2.x three good tries last year, at various stages of its development. Each time I simply gave up because it simply is a poorly designed Viewer at its very foundation. I have no trouble adapting to change or mastering new software - it is good part of my job in RL, and I have had a lot of experience and apptitude in so doing. But I do know a poorly designed piece of software, and Viewer 2.x is in that category. I will not try to use it again because 3 times is enough. When it gets to the point wherein all users must use Viewer 2.x, I will then bow out of SL. Linden Lab had better smarten up really quickly, because I do know as a fact, that I am not the only one who has this attitude towards Viewer 2.x.

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Opensource Obscure wrote:

 

Yoki Enoch wrote:

Most other viewers are far better at handling pretty much anything that Viewer 2.x handles or doesn't handle.

 

This is simply false. Users who have issues should be be aware of such misleading and imprecise suggestions.

Current version 2.6 and 2.0 of the official Viewer are so different that such a comment about "Viewer 2.x" doesn't make any sense and only shows bias against the new interface. It seems that the author doesn't bother to follow development of Viewer 2.x.

Such a comment doesn't mention that 1.x viewers lack a number of features (shared media, multi-wearables, location bar, favorites and others) - this is holding back Second Life's development.

Such a comment doesn't take into account how the underlying code has been refactored. We users don't see this, but ask Phoenix and Imprudence developer teams why they're building 2.x - based alternative viewers.

2.x - based viewers aren't perfect and can be improved. They have a future. 

1.x viewer aren't perfect either (anyone using Phoenix and losing stuff from Inventory?...) but they don't have a future. Enjoy your obsolete, feature-lacking viewers while you can and keep blaming Viewer 2. Having something to blame other than our choices doesn't resolve bugs, but can be rewarding and satisfying.

Users who have issues would be far better served by keeping in mind the fact that their issues are not imagined, driven by anti-LL agendas or subject to approval by those in the forums who seem to be less able to handle product criticism than the company employees who come here. Where does such audacity come from? Your opinion is "false". "I'm writing to say I'm having horrendous problems". "No, because it works fine for me". What's the problem here? Did you code the 2.x viewer personally?

I'm having a ton of problems with it too - not just from LL's version, but every viewer I've tried based on v2 code. I also have a machine that has not had a problem running anything else at 60 fps, have a great wired broadband solution and would recognize if I didn't because I'm paid at work to do just that. I have no bias against LL - if I do then spending a few thousand dollars in SL over the course of the last 4 years and living with the plethora of performance issues and questionable design priorities that have contributed to them is a curious way to show my discontent, wouldn't you say? No. The fact is, there are problems with usability on V2 for enough people that there should be no dismay if one more steps up to talk about his or her own.

And why wouldn't there be people on this thread with problems? That's what it's here for. If it's sunshine lollipops and rainbows for others with V2 then why would those people be here is a better question. LL is all grown up. They'll do just fine without the Mental Militia intervention.

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Kascha Matova wrote:

And why wouldn't there be people on this thread with problems? That's what it's here for. If it's sunshine lollipops and rainbows for others with V2 then why would
those
people be here is a better question. LL is all grown up. They'll do just fine without the Mental Militia intervention.

 

While I'm not disagreeing with what you said I would like to point out that Yoki Enoch's comment and general stance seems to be that absolutely nothing works in v2, at all, no exceptions. That seems like a bit of an exaggeration to me, don't you think?

There's a difference between criticism, constructive or otherwise, and no so politely saying v2 came out of the rear end of some animal and that its developers are mentally handicapped. I've seen plenty of people saying the later, and I think those kinds of comments are what v2 supporters are trying to fight against. But some times innocent criticism gets caught in the cross fire. I guess you could call them casualties of war. 

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leliel Mirihi wrote:

 

Kascha Matova wrote:

And why wouldn't there be people on this thread with problems? That's what it's here for. If it's sunshine lollipops and rainbows for others with V2 then why would
those
people be here is a better question. LL is all grown up. They'll do just fine without the Mental Militia intervention.

 

While I'm not disagreeing with what you said I would like to point out that Yoki Enoch's comment and general stance seems to be that absolutely nothing works in v2, at all, no exceptions. That seems like a bit of an exaggeration to me, don't you think?

There's a difference between criticism, constructive or otherwise, and no so politely saying v2 came out of the rear end of some animal and that its developers are mentally handicapped. I've seen plenty of people saying the later, and I think those kinds of comments are what v2 supporters are trying to fight against. But some times innocent criticism gets caught in the cross fire. I guess you could call them casualties of war. 

I can see where you are coming from; believe me I can. But there are realities about "opinions" that neatly remove any need for consternation on the part of anybody for whom such opinions fall short of libel. There is no onus on opinions that requires they be based in any part on reality, nor are they immune to containing at times, gross exaggerations. I'm sure you've heard it discussed somewhere how ridiculously boring the average fight would sound if it wasn't exaggerated.

These problems are real to the speakers. That is the only requirement. If they also appear all-encompassing they are within their rights to refer to them as such, and it should surprise nobody because that's what problems look like from the inside, when encountered alone. For those fortunate enough to have a higher point of view, where is the disservice being done? Where is the trouble sorting fact from fiction? Is it that hard for anyone who has been on the forums for more than a week to figure out what they're going to hear in a thread with such a title? I've no problem avoiding threads feeding the absurd "But how do I know I'm sexually harrassing a real female without voice?!?!" witchhunts that I'm so thoroughly sick of. It's not algebraic - it's common sense. If you don't want to hear it, then click here = false.

But you're right. There is a difference between constructive criticism and ripping the viewer and all involved with it a new one. What there isn't however, is a place for those who in this thread and others, have complained out of the other side of their mouths about being censored, to demand that either one type of criticism or the other be silenced because they don't agree with it or it doesn't represent their personal experience. Nor is there any discernable danger of personal loss or damage that would make such demands understandable.

For those with such concerns about the catastrophic injury being unjustifiably caused to LL by a few frustrated posters, rest assured that the second LL feels a need to recognize that damage, and finds its position untenable, there will be plenty of official looking men with white wigs and briefcases coming round to put down any rabid troublemakers.

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Very hard to be constructive. Just lots of questions:

1. When is Viewer 2 search going to be fixed so that it is useful for anything? If I want to shop inworld I have to go back to a 1.xx based TPV to find anything useful. I closed my inworld store which used to found near the top of the 1.xx search and could not be found at all in the 2.xx search. No point in having a store that no one can find.

1a. Why is Viewer 2 search so slow compared to viewer 1.xx if it is supposed to be an improvement?

2. Why are the new 2.xx web profiles so slow compared to the 1.xx if they are supposed to be an improvement?

3. For all of us who make at leat some of our L$ 'stacking cubes', why are beacons and highlight transparent still separated by so much UI real estate?

4. Why when you undock a window from the sidebar, reposition it, resize it, and then close it does it not remember its position and size the next time it's opened like the old 1.xx Viewer?

4a. When I look up friends online why do I have to give up 1/6 of my UI every time I look.? Same for inventory,  and anything else that happens in the sidebar.

All that being said, all the new innovations are in Viewer 2 and the TPVs, not the official 1.xx viewer so one does not have to be psychic to see where LL is heading. Odd thing is Kirsten does it better in releases that sometimes predate the LL 'innovations'. Rumor is LL is waiting holding up the release of mesh until enough people adopt Viewer 2. Gives me time to get a good handle on Blender so I can become one of the new elite mesh-masters, no longer a cube-stacker.

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Clyde Lindman wrote:

Odd thing is Kirsten does it better in releases that sometimes predate the LL 'innovations'.

There's nothing really 'odd' about that. The only reason for that is basically that Kirsten's viewer tends to adopt official beta code straight away before LL have officially released it into the live viewer. All you are seeing with Kirsten's viewer innovations are official innovations taken from official code that is still being tested (although Kirsten often tweaks the code to do things slightly differently)

 

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There is no need to upgrade to veiwer 2 yet, it is optional, only if you want  to update..

viewer 1.23 still logs in, and up to a few days ago i even had it..

check out the third party viewers, such as kirstens, impudence, pheonix, and the others..

but unfortunatly you will eventually have to upgrade to viewer 2,:smileyhappy:

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This is about the forth time i have tried to us viewer2, omg. Can't see what altitude I am, can't find number of items in inventory. Im's the way they work is just a royal pain in the A--.

Please dont ever force us to use it, the other was so easy. You came to sl and you could jump right in doing things, but not with viewer 2.

Let us choose which one we want to use please.

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Evilynda Baphomet wrote:

This is about the forth time i have tried to us viewer2, omg. Can't see what altitude I am, can't find number of items in inventory

  1. right-click Location Bar to enable Coordinates
  2. number of items in inventory is shown for me. if not, write something in the search text field
  3. IM work: if the popups annoy you, disable them via Preferences > Chat

 

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