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Viewer-Managed Marketplace Beta

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Hello LL 

Before you make changes, at least first solve ALL Marketplace BUGS.
. I got many problems with Listings, SecondLife Marketplace Database Errors and Marketplace Database Lag .
. Marketplace Search is a PIDA.
etc etc …
LL, Can you first solve ALL BUGS in SecondLife too ?
Thank you very much !

Desa John .:dArt:.:art&design:.

http://www.firestormviewer.org/sl-marketplace-merchants-listen-up/

 

:matte-motes-asleep-2:

 

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Viewer-Managed-Marketplace-Inworld-Feedback-Session/td-p/2927838

LL Info about the beta launch including a Torley Video! https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Commerce/Viewer-Managed-Marketplace-Beta-Launch/ba-p/2926002

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Thought I'd give my 2 cents as well. I have tried the VMM and listed 3 items without any problems. What I like most is updating a listing is much faster and easier. I often make small changes many times before moving on to my next creation, and now all I do is delete and replace the item in the 'active' folder and it's done. This is particularly fast if your items are not boxed. And if you forget to add something to your listing like a notecard or LM (this is me again) then just pop it into the 'active' folder and done. No need to refresh anything. It's like having a 'magic box' in your inventory but even better.

DD was much better than magic boxes and this is much better than DD. I can't wait, now.....

...all I hope for is that the migration goes smoothly.

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My biggest whoops was wearing an item that was in the Marketplace folder (I had used the project viewer to upload and then switched to Firestorm). This caused a delivery failure - so it means that if I want to wear some of my own clothes, I need to dupllcate the MP folder somewhere else in my inventory and wear the item from the copy. Am I missing something there?

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Yes, I switched back to Firestorm as well. It took me a while to realise that the Marketplace Listings Folder looks like a normal folder, and I almost deleted the items in it when doing a clean up :matte-motes-shocked:

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As a mesh clothing designer, mostly everything i sell, is no copy.  This seems horrible to me that i will have to refill items on MP and how will i know when the folder is empty... Will i get a  notice.  What made someone think of this, when there are so many other things that need attention... I am probably alone here, and it will probably come to pass anyway. but i really do not like this new change.    Sadly, Marcy Wilson

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We have updated the FAQ with a couple of the questions we've seen come up. Let us know if there are additional questions we've missed that need to be added. Here are the new questions we've added:

I use a Third Party Viewer. Will I need to move to VMM?
Yes, you will. The TPV development community has been updated regularly on the timeline for VMM, and some of them are planning to include these updates. Please check with your TPV for more information.

What happens when I run out of no-copy stock items?
The Marketplace will send you an email to alert you and unlist your listing until you have a chance to add more units.

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Hi Marcy, let me help you here since I don't think Commerce Team response did. If you create the item yoruself (or use full perm items to create your item) then it is copy to you. Therefore, even if you set the item as no copy it will still be copy to the creator (you). You won't have to refill the folder.

No copy refers to items like breedables that are no copy, transfer to the seller and they can only sell the limited amount they own.

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As I see, we all will have to open a new avatar just to hold the itens to be sold.

First LL says we should never have a too big inventory, no more then 25K itens in inventory they say. After they want we keep our itens to be sold on inventory with our own itens! 

What about when we lose things form our inventory as have happened too offen?  I 'm still waiting for get mines back, when I ask LL about them, all what I get is 'I'm sorry that you are having issues, but there is no way to us recovery anything once we dont have back up of inventories"

Then there is 2 options, with the change, or LL wants we all create news avatars to hold our itens (so they can say they have actualy more residents then they really do) and/or that we all have a inword store and quite on marketplace (what will make them get more money from the lands).

I honestly dont see the reason to change it as it is, the magic boxes to non copy itens are the safer way. Almost everybody has a parcel in sl , even is a small parcel any one can use 1 prim to rez a magic box in any place on the parcel, and so dont take any risk about lose any item! or is LL going to pay us about any itens what we lose from our inventories?

 

 

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Natasha Coeyman wrote:

As I see, we all will have to open a new avatar just to hold the itens to be sold.

First LL says we should never have a too big inventory, no more then 25K itens in inventory they say. After they want we keep our itens to be sold on inventory with our own itens! 
 

This isn't how it works, it would be a good time to go and actually read about it, read the wiki, read the FAQ first.

Also, for those who are "testing" it, don't just do the linear unit testing that the testers follow after the developers have finished their sprint do, don't just accept it as offered.

BEAT THE DAMN THING UP!  Try dumb stuff, think about how you actually want it to work, WE are the customer of this effort, please take the time and feed back to the team how it *should* work because they're just making this stuff up as they go along.

Drop stuff in the wrong place, do the messages make sense, in cases the anser is NO and there's no need to just sit back quietly and let this wash over.

Although at this stage of the live implementation (this isn't a beta, it's on the live platform!), I doubt much will be changed, this is likely at the stage where only show stoppers will influence action.

Good luck, let the auto migrations soon begin...

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Thank you for the link to Friday's meeting, it will help all those who were not able to get there.

Fortunately I had already deleted over half of my Marketplace store, leaving only those items that were attracting regular interest and so getting me ready for new building.  Because of DD and the recommendation to use folders, I had converted almost all boxes to folders and have been using that system - and it worked well, even with many objects needing to be delivered.  But it meant I then boxed everything up in my inventory, no need to keep everything open when DD was working well for me - or so I thought. 

Because I wanted to migrate manually, I had to re-create the folders in my inventory before getting started.  I do take Brooke's point that auto migrate would have done that for me but I felt if I was auto migrated with several hundred other Merchants and an issue presented itself, my query would have been one amongst hundreds.  By migrating myself, any issue I find should have more chance of being addressed quickly.

I made a few experimental tests using the SL Project Viewer before the meeting and it seemed ok.  Yesterday I sat down and began the actual migration.  Only requiring the inventory and merchant listing windows open, it didn't really matter what viewer I was using.  I spent around 4 hours (not in one session) and migrated 99 items, it would have been 100 but I stupidly deleted one folder and have to re-list.  That was an average of just a couple of minutes per folder which included renaming the folder to something more sensible than I had, copying the folder to the merchant listing window, finding the item online, associating the listing, setting it live and checking for errors.  Now that, I felt, was extremely quick and not one item brought any errors and all appeared correctly online.  A couple of test downloads and some purchases from customers showed the system to be working accurately.  Today I am hoping to migrate another large number of folders and likely will finish tomorrow.  Not bad considering I expected this to take me 2 - 3 weeks.

Two points I would like to mention...

The first is, remember if auto migrating that you can only have a maximum of 100 unassociated inventory items (which the old DD listings become), so you do have to delete those frequently or have them returned to your inventory (and that deletion process online is the longest part of the process because it just refused to delete more than 5 at a time for me).

Second point relates to the folder structure we were encouraged to use for DD.  The migration works fine if you just have one folder with a number of items inside it.  However, if you have a folder with several named sub-folders, that will not work - or, if it does, I never found a way around it.  If you cannot put all items into one folder, then boxing the objects to go into one folder is the only way it worked for me.  Not to worry, surely SL residents know how to rez a box and click to open it?  :smileyvery-happy:  So, manually migrate one object, or one folder of objects, otherwise box the objects first.

One important thing to remember, though, is that you must list the item after associating it.  There was an automatic listing done for me when I associated but, when I checked on my dashboard, both of those objects were shown as unlisted.  So before finishing a session, double-check on your dashboard that you see those nice green tick/check marks against every listing.

All in all, time-consuming if you have lots to do, scary if you have a huge store on the Marketplace, otherwise, actually easier and quicker than the manual migration I did for DD.

 

EDIT

After completing manual migration, as well as the point I mentioned above about checking that all items are listed, I did notice another point.

When you place a folder of objects into the Merchant Listings window, the sub-folder takes the name of one of the objects and it is not necessarily an object that relates to what you are selling.  It is easy to change the name of that sub-folder and might be necessary in case customers wonder what is being delivered.

 

 

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1. i agree with those that said if it's not broken don't fix it...and here i'm wondering if there isn't a bigger issue of they can't handle all the MP store items that had been hosted by their specific server for this thus it being actually broken but them not telling us and just changing it?:smileyindifferent:

2. i'd like to point out that as in old SL days( pre-server side baking), inventory server "gobbles" some items from people's inventory (since inventory server's reverted back to the old style)..... ummmm...anyone else thinks this is a bad thing if it gobbles up my MP listed items and I don't notice?? I personally understand that loading heaps of inventory lagged (the servers) everyone terribly but I liked the fact it didnt "gobble up" my inventory for that time period :matte-motes-sour:

3. yeahhhh.... i'm trying to cut down on inventory too and not lag myself right out of SL like so many people i've helped (it does happen, not everyone has a supper powered up gaming computer that can handle 5 games as demanding as SL all running at the same time and not even bat an eyelash from lag)... if I have to host those MP items in inventory (those that the server doesn't use as appetizers), then all of that's going to become a major cause of problems in the long term...  even if I house my MP on an alt....:catfrustrated:

I'd like to point out that I really liked the ease of use of the merchant outbox and the fact it made MP really user friendly. :cathappy:

so although i applaud the initiative to find a "better system", I simply don't see this as being better :catindifferent:

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Good post Shayne

I just did a manual migration and it all went smoothly enough. Let me add to your post that it does take a bit of concentration to make sure you don't mess up. Just a couple more things I want to add:


Shayne Hesten wrote:

Second point relates to the folder structure we were encouraged to use for DD.  The migration works fine if you just have one folder with a number of items inside it.  However, if you have a folder with several named sub-folders, that will not work - or, if it does, I never found a way around it. 

 

Most of my listings have subfolders as I sell packs, and I had no problem migrating these. All I did was moved one sub-folder over to MP Listings Window just to create a Listings and Active(Version) folder. then renamed these and emptied the contents of the 'active' folder. I then moved all my subfolders into this active version folder. It's a simple matter of creating a 'Listing' and 'Version' folder and then naming them and filling the version folder with sub-folders, items or notecards etc.


Shayne Hesten wrote:

When you place a folder of objects into the Merchant Listings window, the sub-folder takes the name of one of the objects and it is not necessarily an object that relates to what you are selling.  It is easy to change the name of that sub-folder and might be necessary in case customers wonder what is being delivered.

 

Yes, I found this the most time-consuming part, and it really is a shame that the sub-folder (active folder) does not take on the name of main Listing Folder. This would make more sense than  choosing a name in the sub-folder. The main concern I have with this is how will the auto migration handle the naming of the sub-folder (also called version or active folder). As you said, this won't be a problem if it is just one box but folders with multiple items may be a problem depending on how they do it.

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Nice comments, Reid.

I must say I had not considered creating an active sub-folder and then copying over the folders I wanted, sounds like a good fix.

Given that manual migration saw the active sub-folder taking the name of one of the objects/items in the folder rather than assuming the main listing name, I feel that with auto-migration that is something which will happen throughout.  So even after auto-migration, Merchants will still need to check the names of every active folder otherwise their items will be sent to a customer with some rather strange names, such as a notecard name rather than the item name.  It only took a couple of hours for me to check through and change what needed to be changed but had I realised this, I would have changed the active sub-folder name as I went along.  Not to worry, we live and learn.

I can say though that the entire process was much faster than when I did a manual migration from magic boxes to Direct Delivery and there has been no queries from customers or non-delivery errors, so it must be working.

 

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Thank you all for the feedback. We have added an additional question to the FAQ regarding the migration process.

What will my migrated items look like in my inventory?
If you choose to have your listings automatically migrated, listing and version folders will automatically be created for you. Both of these folders will be named after the "SL Object Name" you can see on your listing.

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To CommerceTeam Linden...

That system really does work perfectly provided there is only one item/box associated to the listing.  If there is more than one item in the folder to be delivered to the customer, then the active sub-folder will take a random name from one of the items/boxes in the folder.  This is not necessarily the listing name a Merchant has given.

Having manually migrated all of my listings, I cannot say what name will be given to the main folder in the Marketplace Listings window.  For that we first need to see the results of some test auto-migrations.

For Merchants concerned about this - it is a very simple process to rename folders (both the main folder and the active sub-folder) in the Marketplace Listings window, and for those who normally use a TPV, have no fears, the official viewer I used was totally easy to handle :)

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CommerceTeam Linden wrote:

Thank you all for the feedback. We have added an additional question to the FAQ regarding the migration process.

What will my migrated items look like in my inventory?

If you choose to have your listings automatically migrated, listing and version folders will automatically be created for you. Both of these folders will be named after the "SL Object Name" you can see on your listing.

I hope both these folders do take the 'SL Object Name'. Perhaps there are some tricks built into auto migration that were not available in manual migration. If so, great :). So far it seems you guys have done a great job and there may not be anything to fear.

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Here's how I think this will be an issue:

1) I make/upload stuff as FULL perm, then I make copies to sell, & make everything no trans. This new system gets the two confused, & sends customers the FP one, instead of the other one.

2) SL eats my items I have for sell, in my inventory, so they are no longer there, & I can't use the return to inventory to get them back.

3) I never do anything regardling the MP in my viewer anyhow, other than sending the items to the MP

I personally like mercant outbox, as it enables me to have a FULL PERM version of my items, & sellable copy/mod/no trans version. That way I still have a copy SOMEWHERE, in case SL decides to eat something, I have lost stuff before to it getting ate, & I had no back up FP copy.

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MoonlightDetective wrote:


Here's how I think this will be an issue:

1) I make/upload stuff as FULL perm, then I make copies to sell, & make everything no trans. This new system gets the two confused, & sends customers the FP one, instead of the other one.

2) SL eats my items I have for sell, in my inventory, so they are no longer there, & I can't use the return to inventory to get them back.

3) I never do anything regardling the MP in my viewer anyhow, other than sending the items to the MP

I personally like mercant outbox, as it enables me to have a FULL PERM version of my items, & sellable copy/mod/no trans version. That way I still have a copy SOMEWHERE, in case SL decides to eat something, I have lost stuff before to it getting ate, & I had no back up FP copy.

Wow, I would never store anything FP in my merchant outbox. It is the last place I would store anything set FP.

But usually I do set things at whatever their end user perms are going to be before I take into inventory. It is all FP to me anyway, whever end user perms are.

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I read that post a few times also, and wondered if it really meant FP stuff, or anything at all, was being stored via the Merchant outbox.

Perhaps better to place a copy of everything in a box inworld - and anything that is modifiable can become a box if it is needed to be "hidden".

As for the new system sending the wrong items to a customer... if the FP items are not listed, then they would not be delivered to anyone.  The items that get delivered are the ones that are associated to listed products on the Marketplace.

It took many merchants a while to get used to Direct Delivery, we had all been used to magic boxes.  Now it is time to move on to a new system.  Try it, it is not as difficult as it first appears and I can vouch that it does work :)

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Shayne Hesten wrote:

I read that post a few times also, and wondered if it really meant FP stuff, or anything at all, was being stored via the Merchant outbox.

Perhaps better to place a copy of everything in a box inworld - and anything that is modifiable can become a box if it is needed to be "hidden".

As for the new system sending the wrong items to a customer... if the FP items are not listed, then they would not be delivered to anyone.  The items that get delivered are the ones that are associated to listed products on the Marketplace.

It took many merchants a while to get used to Direct Delivery, we had all been used to magic boxes.  Now it is time to move on to a new system.  Try it, it is not as difficult as it first appears and I can vouch that it does work
:)

If I kept objects set to FP in my unassociated inventory now, sooner or later I just might end up accidentally selling it.  As I say, normally part of finishing a project is setting end user perms on it -- I dont put FP end user perms on anything intentionally.  

 

 

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Pamela Galli wrote:


MoonlightDetective wrote:


Here's how I think this will be an issue:

1) I make/upload stuff as FULL perm, then I make copies to sell, & make everything no trans. This new system gets the two confused, & sends customers the FP one, instead of the other one.

2) SL eats my items I have for sell, in my inventory, so they are no longer there, & I can't use the return to inventory to get them back.

3) I never do anything regardling the MP in my viewer anyhow, other than sending the items to the MP

I personally like mercant outbox, as it enables me to have a FULL PERM version of my items, & sellable copy/mod/no trans version. That way I still have a copy SOMEWHERE, in case SL decides to eat something, I have lost stuff before to it getting ate, & I had no back up FP copy.

Wow, I would never store anything FP in my merchant outbox. It is the last place I would store anything set FP.

But usually I do set things at whatever their end user perms are going to be before I take into inventory. It is all FP to me anyway, whever end user perms are.

I didn't mean I store FP stuff in it. What I meant was this:

 

I have a FP copy 1 copy only, in my inventory. I sent a no trans one to merchant outbox, to sell. I log on a few days later, & find SL ate the one I had in inventory, so I click return to inventory, in merchant ob, & get that NT copy back, then I have my FP copy back.

reason I keep a FP copy in my inventory is anything I have FP I send to all my accounts as FP. Because if I don't SL sometimes eats things, so if an alt got a copy, of say a doll I made, & the copy my alt has is NT. I can't send it back to my main account.

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