Lolas or Maitreya mesh body

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

The maitreya mesh body is fitted mesh, so it doesnt need to come with mod perms because it will change if you modifiy your shape with the normal tab for changing appearence.

So i dont understand this rant about maitreya butt, because it will depend on your shape. 

I have the Maitreya body and my butt looks pretty nice.

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It wasn't meant as a rant, but as a pointing out of various differences between choices. It looks like my list of different +/- aspects of each choice was in another thread though. So I can see why this came off as a rant.

I had to go to 0 before my alt with Maitreya stopped looking like she was her own shipping company carrying a load of cargo back there... That said, she now sits at a 14 on that dial.

This is not "bad" - just notable. Women with a lot of rear are quite common, especially in both the African and Mulato communities - what I am in SL and in RL. RL me is probably closer to the image on the left there than the right...

So actually... on reflection, it is a GOOD THING this body type exists as a mesh avatar - a larger behind without the pure comedy look of those brazilia doll things (personal opinion. Those inflated avatars have their own market, but that market is not me). This is not my bigger issue with Maitreya becase as you note - once I adjusted shape a bit I got a result I liked. My bigger issue was no nipple layer - which is often useful to cover up bad skin alignment...

At least one "template" a whole LOT of skin makers use, doesn't line the nipples up properly with the SL UV map...

Belleza is the only mesh body that lets me hide this...

I also just personally prefer the bosom shape of the Belleza because it feels more real to life for me.

- But it is a very close call for me between Belleza and Maitreya.

 

Mod is not just about shapes. I'd like these things mod so I could change the materials layers to take 1-bit alphas.

When I apply a 1-bit alpha to maitreya, it turns that area solid white - its alpha system is not set up the way I desire for one part.

I'd like them mod so I could add/remove scripts of my own choosing.

I'd like them mod so I could tint of my own choosing and along individual parts / portions.

I'd like them mod just because that makes it easier to work with things.

I'd like them mod because there is no rational reason to have them no-mod, only reasons of people who are paranoid and don't understand technology.

 

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

perms are the decision of the creator. Decision of the customer is to purchase or not.

The product is sold no mod, if you go for it, then u get it without mod perms. That's the deal.

I havent noticed a so big diffence between my default avatar behind and the one while wearing my mesh body. So well, ill check that more closely when ill be online, but to me they seem quite similar. The only thing : yes, my body is now a bit more muscled. I was using mostly size S and now its 50 % of the time size M and 50 % size S.

But for the mod perm, you say " there is no rational reason to have them no-mod, only reasons of people who are paranoid and don't understand technology." and id say that there is no rational reason to give mod perm to ppl on a mesh that is rigged.

i dont understand what you mean when u say you apply 1 bit alpha ? how do you apply 1 bit alpha ? with an applier ?  I think i've read that there is an SL limitation that cant make work appliers for alpha as they are not same than textures, thus it turns in white (i know, i made the test too, right after i got my mesh body). So the interesting question here is can you do that with belleza body ? 

You can tint individual portions too, u just have to create a template and add it to an applier, then u can apply it on tatoo, underwear or clothing layer. There is no reason to give mod perms  for that either.

Also the body mesh scripts are light, i scan my avatar everyday in order to check how much script ressource im wearing and the result is always low. So i dont see any reason to give mod perms for that either. Moreover, im not sure bec im not inworld right now, but it's a lot probable there is a "kill script" button on the hud. so you can do a back up copy and kill the script after you are done with your settings. If there is no button, then yes, i agree that's something they should take in consideration for a future update.

Slink physique is no mod either.

Altamura either.

is the belleza mod ? 

I never felt the need for mod perms on my mesh body, i still can customize it as i want thru the hud and the shape sliders in apparence menu and i do my own appliers if i need them, so well, i dont need more (for now). 

PS : the "rant" thing was not forcelly directed to you but just because i ve read a lot of rants about this topic in the forum or elsewhere on the web.

we all are different thus we have different kind of expectations, this is why it's great that there is a diversity on the market and so mesh bodies have all their own specificity. It would be boring if the mesh bodies all looked the same, or if we all had the same expectations. :smileywink:

 

ETA : i just checked : there is a kill script button. So you may kill the script of the mesh body from the hud, keeping a back up copy of it of course.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

perms are the decision of the creator. Decision of the customer is to purchase or not.

we all are different thus we have different kind of expectations, this is why it's great that there is a diversity on the market and so mesh bodies have all their own specificity. It would be boring if the mesh bodies all looked the same, or if we all had the same expectations. :smileywink:

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Don't read too much into my desire for Mod. That's a desire, not meant as an attack against creators though my wording of 'paranoia', yes... is too strong...

Misinformed is a better word choice, but only for SOME designers.

I remember a lot of panic in and around 2009 about the possibility that hackers could steal products that were Mod. The eventual reality was that this was not the method copybotters were using to steal stuff. But the perception has persisted that setting to 'no-Mod' will protect a product. In reality it doesn't even protect the text of notecards some of the time... (I have quite a few notecards where people left UUIDs that I have found I can read... This is likely why TMP uses the system it uses, which by the way, also fails, because those UUIDs are also stored in all of our cache folders).

So when I see no-Mod, yes I understand its a designer's choice. But I also suspect many of them make that choice for a reason that is not actually valid-logic. It doesn't actually protect their content.

The only real protection is trust. Which actually is better than some think. Most people don't steal the goods.

*****

Other reasons for no-Mod, sure they can be valid.

 

It doesn't mean consumers have to like it. And the only recourse is NOT always to just not buy. I've never liked the 'if not happy just leave' philosophy. I've always preferred the engage and work to improve method.

So that I comment on what I dislike about Maitreya and Belleza (both of which are no-Mod by the way), is because that is all that I dislike - because 90%+ of the remainder I happen to like a LOT. When something is almost perfect, I want to engage and see if I can convince the situation to be just a little better.

 

*****

1-bit alpha, this might be the wrong term. Essentially I would like to make a skin that has a transparent section on it, and use that as my skin. This is particularly handy for two reasons:

1. My own custom alpha cuts. Not so needed with Maitreya now that it has such a nice alpha-cut system. Belleza needs to catch up here.

2. Hands... I would like to be able to end the hands at the wrist, so that I can wear furry paws with a mesh body. I've one alt that uses Maitreya for which I've refused the recent updates for this very reason. Version 2.x of Maitreya let me 'apply' such a texture. Something change after that and when I applied the same texture to the update, I got 'white' where the invisible part was.

*****

Another MAJOR reason to desire mod on mesh bodies, would be to delete all but the skin mesh. The body is usually a seried of meshes inside each other, and the smallest one on the inside is the skin. Above it are tattoo and various clothing layers. If you don't need the others, they are just added Draw Weight / added polygons to render.

- I would like to edit the body and remove all the layers I don't use, completely. Not just hide them or trans them, but remove them... for efficiency's sake. Cut my lag as much as I can.

In my case I don't use any applier clothing, only mesh clothing. So I could cut all the layers but the skin. But even if I did wear applier clothing, I would only keep the clothing layer for those outfits where I was wearing such.

- Mesh dsigners could also solve this issue for me by simply including copies of the body in the package, in an accessories folder or something, that had various layers removed... I've gotten furry avatars before that had copies with assorted features removed or added to make customization easier.

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

 

ETA : i just checked : there is a kill script button. So you may kill the script of the mesh body from the hud, keeping a back up copy of it of course.

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Yep. And I wish more makers added that. It was a good addition.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

ah i understand better what u meant.

Well about the reasons creators dont give mod perms, im not sure it's always bec they are afraid of copyboting.

Slink, for example, doesnt want to have to deal with constant ppl coming back bec they messed with their mesh body and need it to fix or a new one. This would need a whole person deeded to such service and well this has a cost.

I cant talk for the other mesh body creators bec i dont know, but i know for slink, bec this is what the designer told to one of my friend (well placed blogger) recently.

But as a fashion designer i can talk for myself, i can tell you that i dont like to sell my stuffs with mod perms either if the item is rigged. Customers wont be able to resize the item anyway bec it's rigged. Changing the texture ? well, i spend a big ammount to create the textures i apply on the meshes. So i sell the item with MY texture. If they wish to change the texture then they just need to get a mesh template without a texture. 

Now that im feeling more at ease with blender and will create more of my own meshes the question is back and i still dont have the answer. My latest mesh is a hat, ill sell it with mod perms because it's not rigged so mod perm is needed anyway. For the rigged meshes i still don't know. I dont sell Full perm stuffs, i sell meshes with MY own textures. It's a whole product. 

but the idea to make them no mod bec im afraid of being copyboted never reached my mind, bec perms wont change anything if that has to happen.

 

I didnt know about the layers over the body. That makes sense indeed and i understand what you mean now. Yes maybe the solution would be to provide the mesh body in several versions with diff set of layers.

Maybe that could be suggested to them. it looks like a real great idea indeed.

[Bobbie Faulds]

For some of my applier clothing, you're going to need all the layers because the current bodies don't allow multiple items on the same layer like the default bod does. So, for my newest outfit, you have a shrug, that goes on the clothing/shirt layer. The corset has to go on the undershirt/bra layer. The corset is longer so is requires to have the bottom part on the pants layer, since the bods don't have a jacket layer. This pushes the pants to the underwear layer. The weight on the outfit is light, but to wear the outfit as designed, you need upper and lower clothing and underwear layer. You could wear the pants on the tat layer, but the Banned body, for instance, doesn't have a tat layer.

The bodies are mostly no mod because you get new residents that charge in, start changing thing, then, when they make a mess, blame the maker and go running to them or complain and fail to mention that they made the mess. So, to eliminate the problem, most have them no mod. You might make the suggestion to some of the no mod makers to offer the option of their bods with just the skin layer on it, much like the basic TMP body is. You can change the skin and that's it. No appliers will work for it other than those. Try sending a notecard with the suggestion to the body maker of your choice. It might be something they hadn't though about.

[Pussycat Catnap]

I come to this from the furry perspective. Where furry avatars have almost always been mod, and its a rare seller that would dare to go no-mod.

That has led to a lot of creativity among the furry community.

I think people who sell to 'human avatar' users underestimate their own customer base, and make a policy based on the exceptions to the detriment of the remainder.

As to why one might want to mod an avatar beyond the list I've given so far, I'm always seeing new things I didn't think of before when I visit furry communities. Rather than discourage it, many furry seller have sections of their shops set aside for their better modders to sell mod-kits. That in turn boosts sales of the original avatar.

- That is akin to the applier community in mesh bodies, and if I were selling a mesh body, I think about a third of my shop would be space to showcase some people who were selling appliers for it. Eve in fact seems to do this, though in that case, it might be more like 90-percent of the shop land is for the 'mod kits / applier community / etc' - if I actually liked the Eve body it'd be really easy to kit it out by hanging out in their mainstore for days... People who do like it get a lucky bonus there.

 

But the thing about a locked applier system, is you limit the creativity of what people might do with the body to merely what you already predict. And not to what you didn't think of yet. A few hours in any active furry spot will leave you looking at some people and wondering "how did they do/come up with that?" over something that has been modded in very surprising ways. And that kind of situation can lead to interesting collaborations.

 

So while I comprehend the reasons people give for no-mod, its a choice I think really does a disservice to their own communities.

 

[EvelynSl]

Hi all. could you kindly explain what does Omega system do with the Maitreya mesh body? thank you

[Bobbie Faulds]

Omega is a "universal" system for applying textures to the majority of the mesh avi, provided the maker agrees and they use the standard SLUV map. It's a godsent to designers since, for the most part, they can make just the Slink and Omega appliers and TMP if they want to, and not have to make separate appliers for all the various bodies. Just a note though. Some skins won't look quite right on the Maitreya hands. The nails will be off because she didn't use the SLUV map. Also, Belleza hands and feet won't work with Omega for the same reason.

 

http://lovenlustdesigns.blogspot.com/p/supported-meshes.html is a list of mesh products that Omega works with.

[EvelynSl]

Can I put the simple layer clothes on the maitreya mesh body? if yes, how can i do it? Thanks a lot

[Ariel Vuissent]

Not regular system clothing layers, no. System clothing layers apply to the default SL body, which is hidden when you wear any mesh body. They will NOT apply to any mesh body. 

However, Maitreya supports Omega, as well as its own applier system. Look for clothing which includes either Maitreya or Omega appliers. Often, this comes with both regular system layers and appliers. Wear the APPLIER, click on it, and then the "system" clothing will apply directly to your body. Otherwise, you can wear many kinds of mesh.

[EvelynSl]

Thank you all for your help i will keep learning x.x