Can a forum posting lead to an inworld ban ?

[Arkady Arkright]

I request clarification of an inconsistency in Linden Lab statements concerning in-world bans for forum misbehaviour.

In the recent Blog thread "Improving our Lines of Communication with the Community" I posted the following :-

by Honored Resident Arkady Arkright on 02-10-2011 12:54 PM

  While reading the different comments to this post I found many opinions that I share. To name the two most important ones:

   1. New guidlines for posting means LL threatens residents who don't follow the "party line" to get banned in SL.

  The failure to respond to the many times this point has been raised in this blog speaks volumes about the real intention of these changes ...

  I don't mean to sound flip, but what exactly is it that has changed between the old guidelines and the new guidelines to make you think there is now a   codified policy to threaten residents who don't follow the party line? Because I'm not seeing anything different to allow you to make that case.

  That's leaving aside the possibility of an uncodified policy, of course.

I'll go for uncodified, as suggested by observation :-

The emphasis placed on the new Community Guidelines in the OP, with it's insistence that LL can ban anyone 'without warning or explanation'.

The fact that 'airing grievances' is now a bannable offence, what exactly is a 'grievance' ?

The fact that you can be banned for complaining about someone being banned.

The fact that it would appear to be happening already - see thread http://blogs.secondlife.com/thread/59372?start=0&tstart=0 - needless to say this thread has already been censored out of existence - but it referred to an in-world suspension that a resident received as a result of an unspecified Forums post back in September.  That topic itself may violate Forums guidelines.  The post that lead to the suspension was apparently criticizing the previous Support outsourcing company.

The last straw for me was seeing a linden threaten to remove someone's Jira privileges the other day, simply for disagreeing with him about what constitutes a viewer problem.

It's a sad day, but I'm afraid I trust neither their motives or their actions any more - and this "we'll improve communications by removing feedback mechanisms and restricting what you are allowed to say even more than before" does nothing to rekindle that trust.

Amanda Linden Replied :-

by Community Manager Amanda Linden on 02-10-2011 01:04 PM

WolfBaginski/Master/Han/Setekh/Arkady/Mike  and others that had questions about bans - As the Community  Participation Guidelines say, we moderate at our discretion. This policy  only applies to the community platform (not inworld) and other  communication channels outlined specifically in the policy. However, you  will receive warnings before a ban from the Community Platform is in  place. A community platform ban may be for a day, week, month, or  longer--depending on how many offenses have been committed. I will share  more details regarding our moderation procedure when the new platform  is launched next month. Hope this answers your question.    (my bold)

 

However the "Community Standards - Policies and Policing" says :-

Global Standards, Local Ratings

All areas of Second Life, including the www.secondlife.com website and the Second Life Forums, adhere to the same Community Standards. Regions within Second Life are noted as Safe or Unsafe and should be designated by the SL account holder as either "Adult," "Moderate" or "General." Resident behavior within each region must conform to the respective local rating.
Warning, Suspension, Banishment

Second Life is a complex society, and it can take some time for new Residents to gain a full understanding of local customs and mores. Generally, violations of the Community Standards will first result in a Warning, followed by Suspension and eventual Banishment from Second Life. In-World Representatives, called Liaisons, may occasionally address disciplinary problems with a temporary removal from Second Life.   (my bold again)

 

Either Amanda Linden is right, and forum activities can not lead to an in-world ban, or the Standards are right, and forum behaviour can lead to a ban in the Second Life virtual world. Which is the case, please ?

[Cato Badger]

LL can do whatever it likes, whatever any individual Linden says and whatever the various elements of the ToS say in detail.

[Monti Messmer]

What Cato said and ...

For short yes. If you slam down a Linden in the forums there is no difference in doing that ingame; well for me

 

[Suspiria Finucane]

---

Either Amanda Linden is right, and forum activities

can not

lead to an in-world ban, or the Standards are right, and forum behaviour

can

lead to a ban in the Second Life virtual world. Which is the case, please ?

---

Quote from today's meeting.

---

[2011/03/10 13:51]  Amanda Linden: no appeals. 3 warnings and it's a one week ban.

 

[2011/03/10 13:51]  Amanda Linden: and it's only for community platform, not for SL

---

[Cato Badger]

@Suspiria: I would very much like to see the full log of the meeting, because I can not believe that Amanda would say something as shortsighted as "no appeals" without qualification. I look forward to viewing the comprehensive record and possibly a retraction, as she made after suggesting Facebook was THE BEST PLACE to find out information regarding SL.

[Suspiria Finucane]

 

---

Cato Badger wrote:

@Suspiria: I would very much like to see the full log of the meeting, because I can not believe that Amanda would say something as shortsighted as "no appeals" without qualification. I look forward to viewing the comprehensive record and possibly a retraction, as she made after suggesting Facebook was THE BEST PLACE to find out information regarding SL.

---

Don't expect any retraction from me as it is a direct quote. Believe what you want. The truth always prevails...

PS Exactly who, do you think, asked the appeals question?

PS 2 Attend the meetings for up to the minute details on what's happening in the forum community.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Community_Tools_User_Group

[Cato Badger]

@Suspiria: I was not implying that you would have to make a retraction or that you had done anyhing but quote acurately. I have, however, learned from years of reading book reviews that you can not always trust excerpts taken out of context. Oh, and the truth most certainly does NOT always prevail, in my experience.

[Arkady Arkright]

 

---

Suspiria Finucane wrote:

---

Either Amanda Linden is right, and forum activities

can not

lead to an in-world ban, or the Standards are right, and forum behaviour

can

lead to a ban in the Second Life virtual world. Which is the case, please ?

---

Quote from today's meeting.

---

[2011/03/10 13:51]  Amanda Linden: no appeals. 3 warnings and it's a one week ban.

[2011/03/10 13:51]  Amanda Linden: and it's only for community platform, not for SL

---

Thanks Suspiria, I'll regard that answer as being from the horse's mouth (not that I'm calling either you or Amanda a horse, btw :smileytongue:)

 

Cato & Monti - yes, I'm well aware that LL can do whatever it likes to whoever it likes whenever it likes, I just wanted to clarify the official position.

 

[Cato Badger]

@Arkady: May I point out that Amanda is the person who, in an official and preprepared blog post, stated that Facebook was THE BEST PLACE to find information about Second Life, so her words in an extremely disjointed multiple monologue (reading the log of the meeting made my head hurt) are not necessarily to be relied upon, and there is also the possibility that she might, as she did with the Facebook ccmment, attempt to recant, perhaps with more or less success. It has been known for Lindens to change their mind (qv "No plans to move Teens to Main Grid")

[Mags Indigo]

On this subject - and I was at the meeting where Amanda made the statement - I still have the feeling that she was talking about 'forum misdemeanors' and covering the usual forum 'fights' that can happen.

I would not be surprised however if someone proved to be consistently aggressive, abusive, racist or whatever - or indeed if they brought Inworld stuff inappropriately to the forums (as in chat logs or naming people etc) - there may very well be an impact on the whole account and (IMO) quite rightly too.