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Yasmine Melodie

Why is there so much betrayal?

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I'm going to try to not get on my moral high horse but why is there so much hurt and betrayal in SL?
Is it all just lip service and I'm just the one that wants to believe? Is it so wrong to believe in heartfelt emotions?

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Yasmine Melodie wrote:

I'm going to try to not get on my moral high horse but why is there so much hurt and betrayal in SL?

Because there is no significant consequence, as there may be in RL, to being completely selfish.

Yasmine Melodie wrote:

 

Is it all just lip service

Pretty much.

Yasmine Melodie wrote:

 

 and I'm just the one that wants to believe?


No, lots of other SL users wear rose tinted spectacles.

Yasmine Melodie wrote:

 Is it so wrong to believe in heartfelt emotions?

No, but you're going to get hurt if you think everybody else thinks the same way.

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Yasmine Melodie wrote:

I'm going to try to not get on my moral high horse but why is there so much hurt and betrayal in SL?

Is it all just lip service and I'm just the one that wants to believe? Is it so wrong to believe in heartfelt emotions?

Because....humans.

No it isn't all just lip service.

No, you are not alone in wanting heartfelt emotions.

However, the way one finds such things matters as much as finding them.

When you mix two people who have different ideals, and different ideas of exactly what they want, you will have conflict.

If person A wants a fun fling in Sl, even with real emotions tossed in, but wants no Rl committment, it isn't very likely that a relationship with person B who wants both, is going to work out.

Friendships, connections, relationships, in the contexts of sl only, rl only, sl and rl mixed...all exist. Despite what some have experienced, read about, or believe to be true, it is entirely possible to find someone who has the same ideals as you do. That doesn't mean it will be easy. It is certainly no different than in rl, though. Some folks will likely say "don't use sl as a dating service", and the like. For some folks, that is grand advice, and should be followed. For others, it's not so grand. You have to figure out where you fit in the equation. Some folks suck, and will ruin any relationship they get into, real or imagined. Others will do whatever possible to MAKE a relationship what they want. Personally, I haven't seen either of those situations pan out well for anyone involved...but that's anecdotal, at best, and applies in rl as much as it does sl, or anywhere else.

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Many times the answer is found in affordances, culture and something to do with calculus explaining acceleration and such.

 

More grey area on if someone is really hurting is maybe one issue. SL affords more feelings of grey areas on causing hurt, less fall out if one does hurt someone as well.

Anonymity and lack of ramifications.

 

Of course, this is where people step in and start complaining about anonymity and how they wish everyone was verified and offer thier first borns blood and soul on paper to at least ONE merchant/land owner/scorned lover and so on.

In a country where YOU are the only criminal and are not able to be brought to justice for it (you have it sanctioned) doesn't remove the injustice. This is where I say things about self evidence, junk about chemicals in brains and human culture etc. and basically shrug and say it is all messed up. If you make more rules, you change the culture and SL then what do you really gain?

You gain code. Remnant population. So, this amounts to the same as if you went out and got the open source simulation thingy and got really nice servers and all that jazz.

Of course if a king can raise and army and kill another king he instantly gains a slightly damaged castle!

So, the idea is to war over the server speeds and linden employees.

Complain, speak of fall out and angrily cancel simulation fees. You give up and complain to all. SL2 is coming around, so kick up the complaining again and try to build a new population.

Get your friends to join beta and say stuff like "We really don't like this type of thing, what riff raff, inconvenience and why should I pay for this" etc. so that the Lab guys worry and maybe they will make SL non anonymous or offer HUGE differences, entire continents for instance, for premium members.

Why not, they are the last ones to figure out how to make thier own servers run open source sim stuff and are busy with jobs. So, maybe this time around they will.

So, if you want to date and avoid the trechory of relationships you go to the premium continent!

Suites me. I don't care, I am on neither side and don't percieve a side or a way of quantifying this via forum arguments.

More research, more broader and provable (reproducable by linden lab employees) with case studies of similar moves to do with subciptions and so on. Prove it, think like a HUGE company or a scientist trying to change the way things are done.

 

Don't devide, build! BUILD a new area is what to ask for. Not to stop SL from allowing free acounts or to force verification.

But, why bother. Culture change, more serve CPU cycles by getting people blocked. Premium people pay a significant amount, tier payers as well.

Maybe now that the next SL will be "creators are king" world, maybe tier will not rule and content creators are the ones to worry about and they will make a large set of rules for uploading. Kings mean domain, castles for protection and so on. What will they hold? How will they build and please the populace that are their patrons? What do they lose if they fail to keep the peice, or survive the analogous to war situations?

Only time will tell. See, without relatinships we can see there is something to think about and thus we don't need relatinships to survive as SL citizens. Cultures exist beyond just love, partners and compadres and the wins and losses they share together. SL is a we that is larger maybe? Who knows, whatever.

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Huh?

 

I'm a pretty long-winded rambler myself, and quite known for it...but your post completely and utterly lost me.

I'm not sure what 99% of it has to do with the questions asked.

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There are no consequences to bad behavior in SL like in RL, other than breaking someone's heart.

A lot of people in SL rush into commitments.  A sound SL relationship usually takes as long to develop as one does in RL.

Some people play characters in a game, for other's their avatar represents their RL self.  These type never do well when they are mixed.

People have different expectations about what is permissible in a SL relationship.  Be sure to have a heart to heart talk about this BEFORE you commit to anything.  What are the ground rules? What are the deal breakers?

It's great to do things together, but you also need to allow time for both individuals to pursue new things and separate interests.  Allowing personal growth like this keeps each person interesting.  If you don't allow some personal space, one of the couple usually ends up feeling smothered.

For some people the 'chase' is the thing.  Once they commit they get bored and want to move on to the next 'chase'.

 

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I am pretty sure that one of the reasons for so much (apparent) betrayal is inadequate comprehension of communication between those using languages in which they are not proficient, or which have inbuilt cultural differences, or maybe simply because the visual environment of sl attracts a large number of semi-literates unable to express themselves coherently..

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I think on-line relationships are not as strong as those built in real life. By on-line I mean SL and any other internet based relations that do not any real life interaction.

I think that our brains need more than just electronic images and sounds. For love (and even basic friendship) we need stimuli that can only be provided through real life interaction. Small things like body language, facial movement, tone of voice, etc. fill in the little tick marks in our brains that make us want to trust and be trusted by others.

I read an article once that said the internet, ATMs and other convenience automations are insulating us from the small uncomfortable interactions with strangers that we need to help form our social abilities. We need the inconvenience, unpredictability and serendipity back in our lives. If we are losing these in the real world we should build virtual worlds to provide them.

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A big part of it is the anonymity in SL...People know you have no way of knowing, unless the tell you and even then you can't be sure they are telling the truth, who is behind the keyboard. So, people do, in SL, things they wouldn't dream of doing in RL. Sometimes that's a good thing, like exploring alternate lifestyles. Sometimes it's not, when a person decides to flit from one person to another and damn the consequences or trail left behind them.

So...take it slow and don't be in a hurry to enter into any kind of relationship unless you really take into account that the other person may not be as interested or may be more interested than you are.

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I think betrayal comes with the territory of just being in a virtual world.  Virtual world means it is entirely anonymous.  Sometimes you run across a person who is playing it straight, but that is a rare occurance.   Many many residents are in SL just to try out the wild side of life a little without anyone in their RL finding out.  But then, one day, they meet someone who demands more intimacy of them, someone who asks for uncomfortable facts about their RL, someone who is obviously expecting a much more real, and much deeper relationship than resident #1 ever planned on or can possibly fulfill.  Now a quandry arises for the first resident.  Should they face the other person online and admit they were just dipping their toe in forbidden waters and are not available in RL whatsoever?  Or do they create a situation that will make the relationship crash and burn, thus getting themselves off the hook?  I think this is often how these betrayals happen.  The relationship was untenable to begin with, but one of the persons involved did not realize this fact and was blindsided by the other when the other person/persons could no longer keep up the pretense.

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Don't forget smell, Bree! I was once in a RL relationship that for all intents and purposes should have been perfect! The only problem was that he seemed to have no smell whatsoever (other than his cologne, of course)! I couldn't seem to work up any real emotions for him and I honestly believe it was because there were no olfactory cues. 

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Yes. I agree! Smell is pretty important and goes beyond merely informing you if someone bathes regularly. I don't think I would want any scientific breakthroughs in virtual-smell-o-vision though.

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Aislin Ceawlin wrote:

Don't forget smell, Bree! I was once in a RL relationship that for all intents and purposes should have been perfect! The only problem was that he seemed to have no smell whatsoever (other than his cologne, of course)! I couldn't seem to work up any real emotions for him and I honestly believe it was because there were no olfactory cues. 

Have you considered it might have actually been your own physiological problem, and that some food or drink that you had ingested, or perfume/cosmetic/hair dye might have acted to block the pheromones that he would obviously have been emitting, as a presumably red-blooded male confronted by a fine example of a potential conquest.

Unless one of his male ancestors had been treated badly by a red-headed woman, and he was genetically modified to ward off such temptations, even unknowingly.

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Thank you all for your comments and interest in this thread.

Loralinda you make some very valid points about setting something up to crash and burn. To clarify, pure and simple it was SL love (Only). Rekindled from many SL moons ago when we were both noobs with our first avi’s and long before the mesh and slink.

 

Ok, so let me clarify.  It was pure and simple SL love. Only.

We both understand (or I thought we both understood) the limitations of time, time zones and rl commitments. But when a man ‘stumbles upon someone and it gets serious’ one must question the validity of the original sentiment. It doesn’t just ‘happen’ it seems... it was sought out, so... why bother faking it only to seemingly fall into the arms of another the minute I'm distracted with RL?

 

Yasmine

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Tari Landar wrote:

Huh?

 

I'm a pretty long-winded rambler myself, and quite known for it...but your post completely and utterly lost me.

I'm not sure what 99% of it has to do with the questions asked.

Oh, I take it you're not familiar with Poenald then?  ; )       Oft-times I scroll through comments just to find his!  As, for me there's a sublayer of meaning to his prose...that I find enlightening.  

(All possible that it's my own mind assigning the meaning, and each of us has a difference experience with his words.  Like a rorschach of words)

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Yasmine Melodie wrote:

I'm going to try to not get on my moral high horse but why is there so much hurt and betrayal in SL?

Is it all just lip service and I'm just the one that wants to believe? Is it so wrong to believe in heartfelt emotions?

Errgh Arrgh.

Not sure what you're referring to? 

Do you mean casual acquaintances?  Or, competing creators and/or sellers, and land barons?   

Perhaps you mean DJ's and live singers....and assorted clubs.   You could mean those who pretend to (human!) men, or pretend to be, (human) women....when they're actually lizard people.   Maybe those who claim to be lesbians, but aren't actually female.     SO many options.  

But, if you're going on about "love" and such.....what?!   SL is just like RL then.   The same broken *hearts, and mind-f*cks.  The same true love, and mind-melding, across-time-and-space mingling-of-essence bonds.

Errr, what were you asking about?  (Specifically?)

 

 

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Yasmine Melodie wrote:

Ok, so let me clarify.  It was pure and simple SL love. Only.

We both understand (or I thought we both understood) the limitations of time, time zones and rl commitments. But when a man ‘stumbles upon someone and it gets serious’ one must question the validity of the original sentiment. It doesn’t just ‘happen’ it seems... it was sought out, so... why bother faking it only to seemingly fall into the arms of another the minute I'm distracted with RL?

Oh.  Drat, now I see you did get specific.  *laughing*

Like a fair-weather friend or summer-time soldier and sunshine patriot.  

Some see love that way.

 

 

 

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:
 Like a rorschach of words


Now you've done it, Celestiall!

Next time anybody posts some incomprehensible gobblydeegook , and I criticise it, they're going to tell me it was a "word rorschach", to which I'll have no answer!

[Actually, it's such a great phrase I'm going to borrow it . . . ]

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:


Tari Landar wrote:

Huh?

 

I'm a pretty long-winded rambler myself, and quite known for it...but your post completely and utterly lost me.

I'm not sure what 99% of it has to do with the questions asked.

Oh, I take it you're not familiar with Poenald then?  ; )       Oft-times I scroll through comments just to find his!  As, for me there's a sublayer of meaning to his prose...that I find enlightening.  

(All possible that it's my own mind assigning the meaning, and each of us has a difference experience with his words.  Like a rorschach of words)

Oh, I am quite familiar, I still try to give the words benefit of the doubt, and find some level of understanding while reading them though, even after all this time, lol. It just totally went out the door with that one ;)

 

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I never considered that, how sad! He really was a great guy, with a compatible career (Nurse/Doctor), handsome, kind, funny....just...no smell!! (To me anyway) I've never ran into that before! 

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Aislin Ceawlin wrote:

 a compatible career (Nurse/Doctor)

Ah, that must be the root of my RL problems. My wife is a nurse, but I was an accountant when we met.

I am better now.

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Because it is a visually based medium where looks count more then substance. In this regard it is no different then Facebook, Tumblr or any other social network. Take care of yourself and stay away from the peacocks and showoffs.

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