West Atoll ROW (Right of Way) SLRR

[gita Meili]

Posts: 2,415

Topics: 162

Blog Posts: 0

Ideas: 0

[Prokofy Neva]

And why shouldn't it be difficult, Qie! Good Lord, this is PRIVATE PROPERTY which the LINDENS SOLD!!! Hello! 

The Lindens made their own SLRR by planning it through sims they own and planned. Why not ask them to upgrade it or change it to fancier tracks or whatever you need instead of building NEW spurs on land that a private owner ABANDONED!

None of you pay the tier. In fact, you have your prims all over land that other people own including Governor Linden.

I totally get it that it's fun playing railroad, but this is not RL and it is not a necessity.

None of you do a thing about the unmanned vehicles and in fact some of you are guilty of them.

[Prokofy Neva]

My ideas are represented in my rentals communities, you can see them aplenty there. I also make land available for other people to express their ideas, which is more than you can say for yourself.

I tier a resident-owned railroad across some four sims in Sutherland (I used to support even more of it but other partners backed out and we found IT WAS NOT USED such as to justify the tier. But still, I go on tiering at least that much so that people can at least go across some pretty sims with some nice sites around Sutherland.

I also have parks along the existing SLRR and make free trains available. I don't sponsor hobos, I sponsor the general riding public in this way. I find these parks don't get much use (except the one in Sutherland) so I discontinued a few others I have. But I keep land in a few places that has been rented in the past by rail enthusiasts and they have built trains or stations there.

All of this is more than you have ever done in your Second Life.

I am not required to make available land for your fantasies that THE LINDENS THEMSELVES SOLD, mistakenly or otherwise, to a land flipper on THEIR AUCTION which I had to buy to SAVE THE VIEW for multiple tenants and neighbours.

[VenumusVortex]

"None of you do a thing about the unmanned vehicles and in fact some of you are guilty of them."
uh i do do something about some of them, i stop any un-manned trains i see so that the auto return returns the train, as for the actual automatic ones like YavaPods, i think its a good way to get people to explore, i have seen many people use YavaPods on the rails to explore and have met tons of people that way.

btw this thread is suppose to be for those in support of warr, not downers like you so please, go away. file a report if you want against because i really dont care.
Infact i could use a good 72 hour ban on my account right now so i can get back to programming on some non-sl projects i been not doing in favor of trying to enjoy SL.

[Rufferta]

I can see both sides of this debate. I like railroads, and I was disappointed when I found that some of the planned Mainland lines were never completed because of different problems (like someone accidentally selling "right of way" land, etc...), but  I also own land, and I know I would be upset if a Linden claimed eminent domain and decided to put a road right down the middle.

One thought occurred to me, would it work to put the line underwater or underground?. For example, there is a nice long portion of underwater road starting in Seoraksam in Jeogeot (The "Slunnel"?) and real trains go through tunnels all the time. Just wondering,

[Qie Niangao]

---

Prokofy Neva wrote:

The Lindens made their own SLRR by planning it through sims they own and planned.

---

In fact, the SLRR that we see today was not fully planned and implemented when the sims were new, and even the "Main Line" had gaps that had to be acquired from private owners surprisingly late -- long after the Lindens' own automated train stopped running on the Atoll.

More recently (but still a few years ago), a long SLRR branch extension over many sims of mostly abandoned land was held-up and then diverted to avoid a cranky old adfarmer's microparcel, held for pure spite and extortion. The route-around was satisfyingly obvious, but that cranky old adfarmer's reputation hardly could have been further damaged, well known as he was for a history of scarring continents while paying a pittance of tier. Anyway, he's gone now and that microparcel is ancient history -- and anyway a very different thing from a normal-sized parcel, purchased normally, with transfer negotiated by rational parties for reasonable accommodations -- which, with some luck, will be the situation here. It indeed was the case for the few other parcels that had to be swapped to make that other extension possible.

I welcome further additions to the rail network because it improves conditions for neighboring landowners -- or at least it can. It doesn't work everywhere. Also, there's no disputing that the SL rail hobby is a niche: at this point it's not going to make-or-break the platform, nor even the Atoll's land values. But leaving vast stretches of the Atoll abandoned with only a few privately-owned tracts along the path, that's not winning any new tier-payers either, which ultimately is what this is all about.

[gita Meili]

Rational suggestions !

Whatever next ?

 

[VenumusVortex]

Sorry Mr. Neva has said some things that im just reading now that really needs repling to.

"How many of you in this thread own more than 512 or 4096 of land? Raise your hand."
I do. 7104 sqm of land in Obscure next to the station with plans to get another 1600 sqm elsewhere for something else nice and useful. I dare you to come over and tell me if my place looks like a hobo camp. And i really mean it, your not banned from my land. I put alot of work and money into my place and im proud of it.
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Obscure/37/207/45

You said "There is a firm, persistent pushback to "your plans" for MY land." there was NO plans, i simply thought of building a train station at the bend and asked kindly if you were willing to sell the parcel. I clearly didnt know that would put you into this ragefest and taking your anger onto others who didnt do anything to you. And im sorry if 2 little IM about selling land annoyed you. And yes i asked once in Tuliptree too because i wanted to build something nice right at that spot and you only allow residental in that area. But dont worry i got a nice parcel in Obscure now that is RTC and office space for HCI Security, search & rescue & Fire Prevention.

"Enough room if my land is seized, right. You're just incredible." Theres been no talk about seizing your land except you, theres enough room to go around you to the road. Its called LRT, short for Light Rail Transit. Google it, theres some nice trams being made in rl for LRT lines.

As for your comment in comment number 4836 "Railroads exist merely to gratify the egos of their builders" that makes me sick to my stomic, Linden's have past away in real life while helping to build the SLRR and you spit on their souls with that comment.

I dont buy land just to flip it or abandon it, hell the land i had next to hooktip was 512 sqm that i sold for L$512 just to find out the lady who owns hooktip was the one who bought it so i refunded her money because i care more about helping then money. Unlike others, i really could give a rat's (beep) about money, as long as i got enough for a roof over my head, food in my belly and electrisicy and internet for entertainment to past the time then im quite happy. I like to help others because that is the kind of person i am.
So go ahead, report me, annoy the Lindens enough that they ban me forever, trust me you be doing me a huge favor by freeing up my time so i can spend it more in opensim and save me alot of money. I already had 2 NFS charges in my bank this past month because i have a spending problem because i buy to many L$ so being banned would be a HUGE help to my problem. Oh not only that, least i can then get away from people raging over something so stupid like the WARR line. If your just making yourself look like an (beep) to get a rise out of me, keep going because what you say here does not affect my real life at all.

Sorry all for this comment but just need to correct some things Mr. Neva has said.

[Victorian Magic]

I own land near the old WARR in region Juanita. Paid for on the open market.

I did not enjoy the trestle looming  2 stories over my country lake place. My guests were always asking , "what is THAT" ?  It was like Madison Garden .

Linden sold off  a lot of the right of way.  Prok and the SL Public Land Preserve have bought a lot of this area - some at a premium and turned it into a lovely place with reasonable rentals -price and rule wise.

Slapping a new  out-of theme train in the middle of this area is just wrong IMO. And to consider the taking of privately paid land for it double wrong.

If you think trains make new people stay and pay tier-- start in an empty region and build it- see if they come. I'll bring the popcorn .

 

P.S. Lag is better with the train gone.

 

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

---

Victorian Magic wrote:

 

... Slapping a new  out-of theme train in the middle of this area is just wrong IMO. And to consider the taking of privately paid land for it double wrong.

If you think trains make new people stay and pay tier-- start in an empty region and build it- see if they come. I'll bring the popcorn . ...

---

That experiment has been run a few times now, at least to the level of popcorn gallery science. The "Great Northern branch" of the SLRR that runs west from Spangle to Yucca is a fairly recent large-scale development through nearly vacant sims, and it's a mixed bag -- like I said, it doesn't work everywhere. In that case it's true that the railroad is about the only thing happening in those otherwise featureless, landlocked sims, but land ownership hasn't really spread deeply beyond the rail frontage itself, and even some of that isn't currently developed.

I get it that people who buy land without some feature may disapprove of that feature being added later, and rail is one such feature. At this point, however, there may have been more folks who bought while WARR was present than not, so if the locals want to fight about the good ol' days with / without rails, y'all have fun with that.

Also, whence arose this talk of "taking privately held land"? Taking? I'm quite sure the Lindens never simply took land, a la the doctrine of Eminent Domain. I mean, there certainly have been private landowners who've voluntarily contributed land to Mole projects for free -- I've done so myself -- but I really cannot imagine them simply taking it without at least a good-faith effort to negotiate a swap or other arrangement of mutual benefit.

[Callum Meriman]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

I welcome further additions to the rail network because it improves conditions for neighboring landowners -- or at least it can. It doesn't work everywhere. Also, there's no disputing that the SL rail hobby is a niche: at this point it's not going to make-or-break the platform, nor even the Atoll's land values. But leaving vast stretches of the Atoll abandoned with only a few privately-owned tracts along the path, that's not winning any new tier-payers either, which ultimately is what this is all about.

---

I love the SLRR, and I appreciate all the work Qie and others have put into it. Like the Blake Sea, Bay City, Nautilus, the great wall, it's a part of our history.

It's also a heap of fun.

[Qie Niangao]

---

Callum Meriman wrote:

all the work Qie and others have put into it. 

---

Michael and the Moles did all the work, certainly not me. Oh, and the folks who built the early stations, back in maybe 2007 or so, those are still high points of the Mainland experience.

[sapro]



 

Me & Hrdtop discuss progress of the right of way .

[GeorgeJames]

 

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Grote/138/80/63

 

 



Anxiously worrying " Will it go further ? "



 

Surveys progress so far

 



 

Does anyone definitively know where it is going to go & end up at ?

[Qie Niangao]

---

GeorgeJames wrote:

Does anyone definitively know where it is going to go & end up at ?

---

I very much doubt even Michael knows that yet. I looked around yesterday at routing options, and there are a bunch of ways to proceed, depending on negotiations with local landowners.

That's assuming that the LDPW intends to connect this with the existing SLRR and extend it westward some distance. That at least seems to be what's going on, but who knows?

Anyway, I sure wouldn't advise anybody to buy or hold land along any particular path -- not even locations that already have rail on the ground, because some of those might need to be ripped out in favor of more circuitous paths to route-around any landowners who can't be reached or won't negotiate.

[VenumusVortex]

the privately owned yard in Neumoegen that is standing in the way of warr and slrr has already done the hookup so we can now go from slrr main line to warr throug Hilto's yard. (sorry if i spelled his name wrong), its now basiclly up to the moles to work their magic to finish warr.

[VenumusVortex]



 

 looks like the WARR is still on track (yes that was ment to be a pun)

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Burns/94/14/57

[GeorgeJames]

If Michael doesn't know ....then no one knows  :matte-motes-big-grin:

[GeorgeJames]



 

Thanking Hilto & Myuzi for the connection  { & asking is it possible new WARR could be electrified  !!!!! )

[PetalSilk]

Hilto is very much a " she "

[sapro]

 

 

Is this the end ? No hope ?

[Qie Niangao]

Oh for crying out loud!  Historically, these things can take months, or even years.

Also, I still think some of what's there already may be ripped out in favor of different routes through all-abandoned land, if deals can't be worked out with owners of land blocking the old WARR route.

If they decide to do that, it probably involves some swapping between Linden-internal land accounts, which might take some time, too.

(On the other hand, if the aggravation exceeds the enthusiasm, I can easily imagine the whole project being abandoned in favor of any Mole projects that seem more rewarding.)

[sapro]

Good [ I just thought the buffers . . . ]

[Qie Niangao]

Well, the buffer stops are easily removed. They're actually encouraging, as I see it, as a sign the route as-is may be open for testing.

(I have to say, though, I'm still nervous about that connection with the SLRR itself. That stretch is still privately held at the moment, and I can imagine the whole thing ending in tears with a single parcel access restriction.)

[sapro]

Hitlo has made the connection