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Chaos Mohr

Better to Abandon a sim than sell it for next to nothing

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With the sad state of LL support, with the preferential treatment given to some, and the sorry people who offer you money for something, then at the last minute tell you that they will give you only a fraction of what they offered, I say it is better to just abandon your sim or mainland and take the profit away from LL rather than cave to jerks.

I had someone offer me money for a full sim I put up for sale, so I rejected other similar or lower offers, only at the last minute to have them pull their ticket then offer me a fraction of what they originally offered, and then someone else had the gall to offer me such a pitiful amount that it so disgusted me that I will just abandon it - yes, although in some cases something is better than nothing, in other cases it is better to take a small loss than cater to other people's greed.

So LL. enjoy not getting another $295 a month, and for the greedy shallow people, have fun chasing other people in hopes of taking advantage of them.

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I was lucky to sell mine May of 2009 but it was very stressful.  I think I was probably one of the last crop of people to recoup some of my losses on my private island and did consider if I would have to abandon it at the time.  Mine had a coveted tier date.

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I'm sorry to see you feel this way Chaos, certainly mainland values have dropped, however, so have RL real estate values! 

I've found that buying and selling mainland has always been a very competitive business, and unfortunately not everyone who does this is honest.  The same can be said for buying and selling islands.  However, I have also found that the great majority of people I have dealt with are honest and I've had very few problems in the past four years.

I am still amazed that people abandon their land, mainland or islands, maybe they are angry and just don't care, however, to give their land away for 0L$ makes no sense to me. 

When you give land away, you are not taking profit away from LL, in the case of mainland you are giving money to LL, and with an island I've yet to see one not sell for more than 395usd with a full month's tier.

Granted if someone paid a lot for land and now can't get much for it they would be mad, but still it seems to me that a person might as well get something instead of nothing?

 

 

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Chaos Mohr wrote:

With the sad state of LL support, with the preferential treatment given to some, and the sorry people who offer you money for something, then at the last minute tell you that they will give you only a fraction of what they offered, I say it is better to just abandon your sim or mainland and take the profit away from LL rather than cave to jerks.

I had someone offer me money for a full sim I put up for sale, so I rejected other similar or lower offers, only at the last minute to have them pull their ticket then offer me a fraction of what they originally offered, and then someone else had the gall to offer me such a pitiful amount that it so disgusted me that I will just abandon it - yes, although in some cases something is better than nothing, in other cases it is better to take a small loss than cater to other people's greed.

So LL. enjoy not getting another $295 a month, and for the greedy shallow people, have fun chasing other people in hopes of taking advantage of them.

 

Wow Chaos -

If that is how you feel then I hope you are gone from Second Life and on to things that cause you less stress.

The reality of your situation is you did it to yourself.

There are many people in SL who will buy a sim for more than your transfer costs, and be able to complete the transaction within 24 hours.  You chose to file a ticket with someone who doesnt have Extended Support, who promised you more, delivered nothing, yet somehow it is not your fault.

I run ads on a regular basis that I buy sims for $125 - $420 USD depending on the tier date.  My math is simple: $125 for the sim, plus $10 per day of tier remaining. So if you sell to me not only do you get back what you paid in tier, but you also get $25 above transfer for the tier.

The reality is in today's wholesale market you are not going to be able to get $300-$500 base price for your sim.  BUT you can certainly take a lower price from an Extended Support buyer and get money in your pocket within 24 hours.

The choice is yours.

Lizard Howl

Segarra Estates Owner

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Lizzard,  - how is it not my fault you say? It is totally my fault for believing in the good in people, in trying to help people and make SL better, totally my fault for trying to do good and help someone who appeared to be trying to expand in SL. Oh yeah I chose not to go with someone with extended support who is already successful and chose instead to try to have faith in trust in the little guy - the little guy is what made SL what it is today, the average person who is trying to build a dream. Yeah it is my fault for trusting people, and it is my fault that I got screwed by someone who was talked to by someone just like you LIzzard, who convinced this person to screw me! but you know what Lizzard, I will take the loss, I will lose again and again for the simple reason that if I do actually help some people, then all the rest becomes worth it!

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Sorry you had a bad experience selling you sim. Pulling the ticket is terrible and LL shouldn't really allow cancels of buy/sel tickets without some penalty. But I disagree with your casting of Lizard as greedy, he simply offered a price that reflects the current secondary market, and its your choice to take it or leave it, he's not twisting your arm.

If you walked into a grocery store and found that a bumper crop bananas had pushed the price down to fifteen cents a kilo, would you insist on paying a dollar because thats what you feel the "should be worth"? Of course not, and you wouldn't be greedy for buying bananas for fifteen cents.

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I agree completely that it's much better to abandon land than sell it, but for a different reason. A year and a half ago, I decided to let my store run down and close it when it isn't worthwhile keeping open. Back then, I always said that I would abandon the land rather than sell it, so that LL is denied tier on it for quite some time. That's because of the extremely bad way they treat their paying customers, which was the major reason why I decided to let it run down.

In the last month or two the run-down has reached a level where dumping land was desirable and that's what I've done. The income from it didn't necessitate dumping land but there was no point in paying LL unnecessary money just to keep the land up. I only had a sim's worth but I've abandoned 3/4 of it - I squeezed the whole store into 1/4 sim. It's mainland and it's very poor land - all rock - so they won't get rid of it in a hurry. I just wish more people would do it on principle.

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Chaos Mohr wrote:

Lizzard,  - how is it not my fault you say? It is totally my fault for believing in the good in people, in trying to help people and make SL better, totally my fault for trying to do good and help someone who appeared to be trying to expand in SL. Oh yeah I chose not to go with someone with extended support who is already successful and chose instead to try to have faith in trust in the little guy - the little guy is what made SL what it is today, the average person who is trying to build a dream. Yeah it is my fault for trusting people, and it is my fault that I got screwed by someone who was talked to by someone just like you LIzzard, who convinced this person to screw me! but you know what Lizzard, I will take the loss, I will lose again and again for the simple reason that if I do actually help some people, then all the rest becomes worth it!

 

Well Chaos, 

Without stirring the pot I do have to ask the obvious - who are you actually helping?

See, by offering a fair market price and a fast transaction I *do* actually help people.

If you had sold to an experienced buyer you would have had cash in your pocket long before posting this rant and everyone would be happy.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:What_is_Extended_Support%3F

It takes something like 17 sims to get Extended Support, that doesn't make you a land baron by any means.  It does mean you are able to handle the tier on enough sims to warrant faster service from Linden Labs.

Everyone has to start somewhere and even the mega-barons had to get their first sim once upon a time.

The "little guy" can become "successful" if they choose.

And someone who is giving up a sim can still get something for it even in todays market.

As Thex said, why cut of your nose to spite your face?

Anyway, please don't take this as a personal attack Chaos.  I know how difficult the land business can be and it sucks getting burned on a business deal no matter what the circumstances.  I just don't think it is right for you to paint all Extended Support clients as being big bad greedy land barons.

Take care, and good luck.

Lizard Howl

Segarra Estates Owner

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Please don't get me wrong Lizzard, it was just the fact that an "extended support" sim owner told this person that I, as a seller who was trying to get rid of a sim in a short period of time wouldn't be able to sell it for more than a few dollars and that they should immediately reduce the offer they had given me becuase I would be stuck. They even pointed to posts that a certain other Estate owner had made in these very forums where they had quoted a very poor 'market' rate. It is sad though for two reasons - one, I would rather abandon it and let LL lose the profit than sell a sim for $25 profit, and I really wish more people would do the same - to me, 25$ to make a statement of my dissatisfaction of LL's treatment of non 'extended support' customers is worth it. The almost amusing fact of this whole matter, is that the person who screwed me by listening to this other person about the 'worth' of a sim in SL now finds themselves without a sim, and because they are not an 'extended client' they were not able to find a sim at that great $125 + tier price that they were told and shown was the 'market value' and as a result, they have decided to go to another virtual world - I do have to laugh at the overall irony of it all in the end.

You know it galls me to no end that I have owned estates since early 2007, and until recently I was within 1 or 2 estates of becoming an 'extended support' client and that the support of non 'extended support' clients has become about the same as non-premium members. Used to be that concierge support would fairly quickly take care of any problem, now it takes weeks if not months for simple tickets to even get a response. Doesn't matter that I have paid a few hundred thousand dollars in tier to LL in my time in SL, I am just one of the lowly ones and I was actually told by a concierge support person when talking to them on the phone and asking them why I couldn't get a simple issue resolved and why my tickets were ignored that concierge no longer does things the way they used to - no sheeet, they don't seem to do much of anything at all. In the good old days, I could call support, and Spike, or one of the competent Lindens would make sure that the problem was resolved in a timely manner - I never expected immediate service, but I did expect that if I put a ticket in, that I would not see it 10 days later that it was still listed as 'new'. 

 I do encourage those who don't have extended support and who have found themselves screwed without recourse to abandon their sims in lieu of a $25 profit just to send a message - and perhaps drive the market up a bit ;)

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Chaos I run a non-Profit organization and have a presence her in SL. I have The Art of Mental Illness art gallery and its for folks with mental illness who are artistic, in all forms, a place to exhibit and sell their work at no cost to them at all. We do not charge commission and if the would like a web presence we even set that up and host it at no cost. Today I found out after making enquiries to Lindens that they no longer provide discounted region set up fees or monthly fees for Educational Institutions or Non Profit organizations. Very disappointing to say the least. I saw this post an was wondering If you have considered donating the region to , NPOs or Educational Institute Instead of just abandoning it. In some way you would still have a presence and those institutions, like mine would certainly benefit. Im just going on my limited knowledge of region transfers so I could be way off and the NPO could still get wacked with the same fees as if it was a new region purchase. I would be interested in your thoughts on this and indeed any one else.

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Thex Lecker wrote:

That's simply cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I suppose it is but I consider it worthwhile leaving LL without the income from the land. I decided to do it that way back when land prices hadn't slumped and it would have been easy for me to do it, but, since land prices are in the tiolet now, it was actually easier to abandon the land, and poke LL in the eye even though they wouldn't realise it, than to sell it.

 

Having just read this thread again from start to finish, imo Lizard is just plain wrong - and out of order. What he seems to be saying is that people are greedy if they don't sell to people like him, so that the rich get richer. It's a greedy attitude, imo.

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After both tickets were submitted one party could not pull their ticket without the agreement of the other party...When did that change?? :smileysurprised:

 

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Even though my situation is totally different I can understand where you are coming from. My thread disappeared when I was trying to get some help with someone who is returning items from MY own land. I cannot figure out how this griefer is doing it. People were blaming me for this griefer's actions, and then to make it worse my thread inexplicably vanished. Maybe they can do without my $25 per month too. I had the ideal setup until this jerk, who is a neighbor started griefing me. :catmad:

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artifactsofmars Omegaman wrote:

Even though my situation is totally different I can understand where you are coming from. My thread disappeared when I was trying to get some help with someone who is returning items from MY own land. I cannot figure out how this griefer is doing it. People were blaming me for this griefer's actions, and then to make it worse my thread inexplicably vanished. Maybe they can do without my $25 per month too. I had the ideal setup until this jerk, who is a neighbor started griefing me. :catmad:

If any part of an object is hanging over a  neighbor's land that neighbor can return that object. Bear in mind that the physics system often considers sculpted objects to be far larger than they appear because they are "sculpted" by the viewer from basic prims which are often large.

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