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Necromancer?

To be honest, there are already a lot of us forum members who are quite rank. #thatwasajoke

Some of us certainly are pretty rank.

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Ossian wrote:

Phil, apparently the ranks allow people to do things like post YouTube links.

It's all gold stars... Nothing of substance.

 

^This

Personally, I see nothing wrong with a person's rank changing with the number of posts they make helping others in these or any other forum.  I've seen it many times in other forums and never felt once that any of those people who were of a higher rank than me, had some sort of "power" over me.  Nor did I have any over others when I gained higher ranks.

I think we need to pick our battles.  There's so much that needs to be fixed or worked on within SL, and so many new residents who need help with the basics.  And we're concerning ourselves with the "ranks" here in the forums? 

One thing more we need to realize...yes, when you have a higher rank, some people are going to give your answers and helping posts more credence than others, so your responsibility in what you post is higher.  Remember that when you answer questions and post topics. 

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Cato Badger wrote:

@Madhue: It is not clear from your post whether you believe that it is those who believe that rank is important who have the insecurity issues, or those that are concerned about the marginalisation of those who are, unsurprisingly because of lack of experience, tyros. Would you like to be more specific?

This is what I see. I see more people willing to take precious time out of their day to help alot of new people that may be confused, need help, and really want to have fun and experience SL. There was not really a lack of help from the community before, and I don't feel we need ranks for any of us to initiate help, but if it ensures that no1 is left hanging for any vast amount of time, I'm all for it.

Let's face it, SL is confusing, even for old timers. I see the overall community as very generous with their time, but even so, there are still times that people are left hanging. Right now, that is not really a problem. Whether it is insecurity problems, or looking for attention, or just wanting to make a difference, I don't really care, as long as the newbs and people with problems using SL get help.

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@Medhue: Sorry about the typo in your name before - it was NOT intentional, honestly. I think I agree with you, except I wouldn't bring insecurity into it. I would rather bring that - as others here have noted - power corrupts, and my *REAL* concern is actually that those with higher ranks have HIDDEN powers (call me paranoid or a conspiracy theorist if you like, and I would be delighted to have a Linden state with hand on their heart that I am wrong) and can act as moderators, under a cloak of alt anonymity. I don't believe that the Lindens have hired fulltime moderators, nor have they repurposed others. It is cheaper and easier to give "trusted" residents- who are on the forums anyway - additional capabilities without identifying them specifically as ResMods, although I suppose that they might have changed the name and job description of some Scouts, but that fills me with even more trepidation, given their conflict of interests.

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Cato Badger wrote:

...my *REAL* concern is actually that those with higher ranks have HIDDEN powers (call me paranoid or a conspiracy theorist if you like, and I would be delighted to have a Linden state with hand on their heart that I am wrong) and can act as moderators, under a cloak of alt anonymity...


 

If this is your main concern, Cato, then we should just ask one of them, Suella (who has the rank of "Advisor"), if she has the ability to moderate the forum.  Suella is so far ahead of you or I in the number of posts and it will take a LONG time to reach what she has done, we two don't need to worry about it.  I would guess that Suella does NOT have the ability to delete one of our posts, or moderate them in any way.  All she could possibly do is RIC us just like we can RIC her.

So, Miss Suella...what's the answer?  Can you moderate these forums with your much higher rank than Cato and me?

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I don't think asking just one of them would necessarily obtain an accurate view of the situation, and of course Suella could always say that Suella didn't have mod powers, but she might be able to log on in the pesona of a Grim Moderator. Or maybe the Moderator of the day might feel inclined to trust RICs submitted by those of rank who felt harassed more than complaints from those without rank. It's a feudal system any way you look at it, with the pleb members at the bottom of the food chain.

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Why does it even matter, really?  I suspect that none of us at any "rank" are going to post anything of such global importance that if it gets locked or deleted that we run the risk of anything catastrophic happening.  Why so concerned?

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@Ima: I am concerned because "hypothetically speaking" one might receive a warning for harassment from a Grim Moderator for, say, congratulating an Advisor on their pragmatic stance to the establishment of a GD substitute (which stance was subsequently undermined by a volte-face by the powers-that-be in providing an Off Topic forum) a supportive comment which was incorrectly perceived as sarcastic, presumably by an overly-sensitive person of rank. If the hoi-polloi are going to close ranks against the peasants then everyone should be concerned.

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Weren't you one Ima who was always afraid of puppetry and the inherent sleaziness associated with the self agrandizement associated with it. Imagine then if Advisors and up had the latent ability to mod, or censor, edit posts and peronas.

Cato's et al concerns are valid. As we have already witnessed someone presuming their status deserved recognition and surrepticiously tries to influence mod and Manager attitudes.

For most the ranks are inconsequential. That is until one of their posts or threads is locked or moved because someone who deems their rank is superior and therefore their concerns more credible is listened to by those with the ability to do that. Some hee have very real aspirations to climb the ranks and not necessarily for their altruism.

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Marcus Hancroft wrote:

 

Cato Badger wrote:

...my *REAL* concern is actually that those with higher ranks have HIDDEN powers (call me paranoid or a conspiracy theorist if you like, and I would be delighted to have a Linden state with hand on their heart that I am wrong) and can act as moderators, under a cloak of alt anonymity...


 

If this is your main concern, Cato, then we should just ask one of them, Suella (who has the rank of "Advisor"), if she has the ability to moderate the forum.  Suella is so far ahead of you or I in the number of posts and it will take a LONG time to reach what she has done, we two don't need to worry about it.  I would guess that Suella does NOT have the ability to delete one of our posts, or moderate them in any way.  All she could possibly do is RIC us just like we can RIC her.

So, Miss Suella...what's the answer?  Can you moderate these forums with your much higher rank than Cato and me?

 

No I can't moderate under this guise or any other guise. Nor would I want to. Nor would I want moderation to be done by anyone other than a team of deidicated moderators employed by LL (which appears to be the case. See here at  13:25 and 13:12): 

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Community_Tools_User_Group/10-Feb-2011

[13:25] Amanda Linden: the moderators will be an extension of oru team--LIndens
[13:12] Amanda Linden: we will have moderators in the community platform 7 days a week and will work through the items that are flagged.

Of course Cato, being the suspicious sort, might not belive that as already indicated, but that's not much I can do about that other than to assure you it's true and let you make up your own minds. 

It's kind of ironic really because I dislike the concept of ranks themselves as much as the next person. What I dislike just as much though is paranoid ideas of conspiricy, favouritism etc that people stir up. I think the whole subject is just tiresome and we'd all be better off just ignoring it.

Incidentally though, if you are really interested in improving your 'rank', my understanding is that post count is just a very small factor involved. I believe you could quite easily move up the ranks with a relatively small post count if you did the 'right' things. I'm not going to say what those 'right' things are for two reasons though:

1. I don't actually know what the 'right' things are. I have a few ideas based on what it says in the Community Help and a few casual observations. I'm really not concerned with them though, so I have no desire to waste my time trying to figure out the secret algorithm!

2. Even if I did know the secret algorithm, I wouldn't say becuase it would just guarentee even more chaos, argument and drama and, as I've already said, I personally think the best thing to do if you don't like ranks is to just ignore them and pretend they don't even exist!

There will undoubtedly be some who want to try and play the 'rise up the ranks' game. So be it - whatever! They can have their fun if they wish. I don't really care just as long as content here remains of good quaility and doesn't resort to what is essentially spam in an attempt to rise up the ladder! That's more the important point for me - that the Lindens involved here, such as Lexie, Amanda, Rand, Raymond, Torley and any moderators) do their best to ensure that it remains a useful, respectful, friendly and constructive resource and doesn't degenerate into spammy, argumentative, destructive mind games!

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Derek Torvalar wrote:

Weren't you one Ima who was always afraid of puppetry and the inherent sleaziness associated with the self agrandizement associated with it. Imagine then if Advisors and up had the latent ability to mod, or censor, edit posts and peronas.

Cato's et al concerns are valid. As we have already witnessed someone presuming their status deserved recognition and surrepticiously tries to influence mod and Manager attitudes.

For most the ranks are inconsequential. That is until one of their posts or threads is locked or moved because someone who deems their rank is superior and therefore their concerns more credible is listened to by those with the ability to do that. Some hee have very real aspirations to climb the ranks and not necessarily for their altruism.

 

I was not "afraid" of the puppetry....I was sick of it for the character assassinations being carried out against the puppets targets.   My hope was the heightened moderation would alleviate such actions as the mods would have instant access to the "mains"  identity while weeding out sock puppet abusers.  That may not be the case..It was a hope.

I can't imagine that LL would give mod rights to what amounts to nothing more than a few SL residents with better manners than some of us.   Especially if alt information is available to mods...

I agree, Cato has very valid points, ones of which I did not consider.  I would like to know if it is true; can forum participants earn Mod rights and with those rights, will they have access to information that for the rest of us would be a TOS violation to even inquire about? 

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I'll just chime in to say that the ranks will probably never really bother me.  I can see some of the points against it but I can also see some of the points for it.  I guess it will be something that will have to be watched over time and adjusted.  Like say if someone who suddenly gets youtube rights starts flooding the threads with them.  Personally the amount of videos that popped up over on the old style became a large hassle sometimes and added very little to the thread at large.

 

Anyways I spend more time in world than I do on here.  So the amount it will affect me is very little.

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"I think the whole subject is just tiresome and we'd all be better off just ignoring it."

 

Oh dear, did I give you a headache dear? I don't do conspiracies about 'secret powers' but if I put two and two together - meaning 1) the disappearance of rez date in Profiles a few weeks back, since then hastily reinstated, and 2) Hamlet (Linden) Au pleading to import this rank system in-world, and 3) the fact that an opt-out was excluded by Lexie in anticipation, before anyone knew what was happening, I am afraid I am going to have to tire your frail self a bit more.

This seems to be meant as the future for Second Life. And I want nothing of it. And I will voice my protest until I take the final conclusion - if they don't kick me out first. If that tires you, I suggest you go to My Avatar and babble about hair to collect more brownie points, which you don't get in Off-Topic anyway.

I don't, and I won't, do ranks. And I most certainly do not accept any rank based on handing out stock Mentor 'help' replies like 'open a ticket'. Been there, done that, got kicked out by Mia.

Better stock up on Aspirin missy. I ain't done yet.

 

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Yes - it could be displayed but based on what inworld criteria? People contribute inworld in so many varied ways. And to what end? Benefits or powers of some kind? SL is full egos (many overly inflated) and the acquisition of rank (whether deservedly or fortuitously) does not bear thinking about. 

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@Ossian. Thank you for the link. As you said, it just looks like gold stars and nothing of any substance or concern to users.

To be honest, I don't understand the reason for this discussion - it's not as though a few people are given any power or authority in the forums.

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Suella Ember wrote:

 

No I can't moderate under this guise or any other guise. Nor would I want to. Nor would I want moderation to be done by anyone other than a team of deidicated moderators employed by LL (which appears to be the case. See here at  13:25 and 13:12): 

 

[13:25] Amanda Linden: the moderators will be an extension of oru team--LIndens
[13:12] Amanda Linden: we will have moderators in the community platform 7 days a week and will work through the items that are flagged.

 

Of course Cato, being the suspicious sort, might not belive that as already indicated, but that's not much I can do about that other than to assure you it's true and let you make up your own minds. 

It's kind of ironic really because I dislike the concept of ranks themselves as much as the next person. What I dislike just as much though is paranoid ideas of conspiricy, favouritism etc that people stir up. I think the whole subject is just tiresome and we'd all be better off just ignoring it.

Incidentally though, if you are really interested in improving your 'rank', my understanding is that post count is just a very small factor involved. I believe you could quite easily move up the ranks with a relatively small post count if you did the 'right' things. I'm not going to say what those 'right' things are for two reasons though:

1. I don't actually know what the 'right' things are. I have a few ideas based on what it says in the
and a few casual observations. I'm really not concerned with them though, so I have no desire to waste my time trying to figure out the secret algorithm!

2. Even if I did know the secret algorithm, I wouldn't say becuase it would just guarentee even more chaos, argument and drama and, as I've already said, I personally think the best thing to do if you don't like ranks is to just ignore them and pretend they don't even exist!

There will undoubtedly be some who want to try and play the 'rise up the ranks' game. So be it - whatever! They can have their fun if they wish. I don't really care just as long as content here remains of good quaility and doesn't resort to what is essentially spam in an attempt to rise up the ladder! That's more the important point for me - that the Lindens involved here, such as Lexie, Amanda, Rand, Raymond, Torley and any moderators) do their best to ensure that it remains a useful, respectful, friendly and constructive resource and doesn't degenerate into spammy, argumentative, destructive mind games!

 

And there you have it, Cato.  Even after over 4,000 posts and a rank of Advisor, Miss Suella has no more power to moderate these forums than you or me!  I knew this was the case.  Thank you Suella for taking the time to answer!

Now...whether you believe what Suella says or not, or ME for that matter, is totally up to you. 

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Cato Badger wrote:

The problem is that
you can't just put those with "rank" on ignore on a blanket basis
, because it is difficult to differentiate the brown-noses whose behaviour has been revised specifically to acquire status (as they see it) from those that have had it forced upon them, accidentally.

But, surely, you can hold your nose as you scroll past and the smell will not be so bad.

 

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Hmm, I've always seen these "rank" things as little more that either (a) "not dead yet" or (b) "Hi, my name's Sigmund and I'm a serial poster." A good post is a good post, a bad one is a bad one, and I can't think there's anyone who seriously measures their self-worth based on their ranking on a bulletin board!

Mind you, in word, I am "Sir Sigmund of Leominster," an honor bestowed upon me by the Noble House of Leominster, an exclusive order that is only open to... well... anyone called Leominster. I don't expect folks to bow - but a quick tug of a forelock and a nod along with "God bless ye, sir" wouldn't go amiss.

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Sigmund Leominster wrote:

Hmm, I've always seen these "rank" things as little more that either (a) "not dead yet" or (b) "Hi, my name's Sigmund and I'm a serial poster." A good post is a good post, a bad one is a bad one, and I can't think there's anyone who seriously measures their self-worth based on their ranking on a bulletin board!

Mind you, in word, I am "Sir Sigmund of Leominster," an honor bestowed upon me by the Noble House of Leominster, an exclusive order that is only open to... well... anyone called Leominster. I don't expect folks to bow - but a quick tug of a forelock and a nod along with "God bless ye, sir" wouldn't go amiss.

I'm not sure tugging of forelocks is allowed under the community standards.  :smileyvery-happy:

 

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http://community.secondlife.com/t5/help/faqpage/faq-category-id/ranksroles#ranksroles

 

Members can post Youtube videos, and add tags.

Beyond that, all the extra POWERS have to do with the KB.

So, unless any1 is jealous of people who can edit the KB, then you have nothing to even be annoyed with. I'm not the kind of person that enjoys doing documentation, so I'll be happy to never make it beyond this, lol.

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