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Racism in Second Life?

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Lol, if the skincolours in that text would have been reversed, people would have jumped on your throat instantly....lucky you. And I think my clothes look perfect on the pale skin of my elf.

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I believe that is kind of the point. You are seen as "exotic" with a dark skin, meaning "white is the normal". Sorry to say, that is intrinsecally a racist thinking. Back to my point when I commented, for every good black skin you find (like, really made for a dark race, not a white one recolored), there are hundreds of the classic caucasian, from whiter than Scandinavians to tanned. In SL, white is considered the "normal" and everything else -not only black- is rare to find and exotic.

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arualblues wrote:

I believe that is kind of the point. You are seen as "exotic" with a dark skin, meaning "white is the normal". Sorry to say, that is intrinsecally a racist thinking. Back to my point when I commented, for every good black skin you find (like, really made for a dark race, not a white one recolored), there are hundreds of the classic caucasian, from whiter than Scandinavians to tanned. In SL, white is considered the "normal" and everything else -not only black- is rare to find and exotic.

Does that also mean that SL is sexist as there are 6 times the amount of womens clothing, 3 tomes the womens skins and 4 time the womens hairs as there are mens?

@OP.. just a quick question.. how many generations removed from Africa are you? Myself, i am 2 generations removed from England and Ireland, yet i call myself an American. Not and English/Irish American. It always cracks me up when someone says "I'm and African/American." Oh, when did your family immigrate here? "We were brought here as slaves." So, 200+ years ago? "Something like that." You're an American.

Ever stop and think all this racist crap might start to go away if we all started calling ourselves Americans? Those of us that actually live in America that is..

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"Does that also mean that SL is sexist as there are 6 times the amount of womens clothing, 3 tomes the womens skins and 4 time the womens hairs as there are mens?"

Indeed yes and very much yes, a large part of SL is also sexist as hell, athough not in the ridiculous "oh poor white men" way you intend it to imply.

There is a huge market for objectification and over sexualization of women -and much MUCH less for men- and, for all that they claim ageplay is against ToS, there are a lot of things out there that are hitting the borderline and they know it, and that is largely addressed to female avatars, not male.

Want to RP an airline? You have male pilots and female flight attendants. Want to go medieval? Sweet lady and fierce male warrior. Female warrior? Sure, as long as the outfit is sexy and revealing, comic book style.

I would advice you not to go deep into U.S. actuality, especially if you're going to try to defend white males. You won't come out of that one looking good and it's not the point of this discussion. SL is not U.S. It may surprise you to find out that there is a wide world outside of the U.S.

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bebejee wrote:

I use a black skin from time to time, afro hair too, never have once experienced any kind of racist attitue, infact I have been complimented on my avatars look as it appears alot more exotic and fashionable than white avatars, honestly black avatars seem to have more character and most fashions look better on them as well,,started preferring it to my white skins as far as being stylish is concerned, sometimes I just change the skin on one fashionale look from black to white and honestly the whole looks goes kinda blah, like somethings missing.

This hints at objectification of another race - which is not the best way to approach things, especially when one is not of that race. I say hints because it comes across that way when I 'read it negatively' but not when I 'read it like I hope you intended'.

As someone who uses an African avatar but is not fully African (being Asian-mulato (south American Indian) with just a hint of West African) that's something I'm always keeping in mind. Be conscious that you're not on that avatar to "portray a black character".

The difference between a 'black person' and a 'person who is black' - that is the difference of objectification.

Black is not 'ethnic' anymore or less than White is 'ethnic'. I cringe everytime I see something for sale in SL labeled as 'ethnic'...

SL is full of objectifications and charicatures of non-caucasians and of women. The first is the 'white gaze' in operation: the place being overwhelmingly mono-racial along caucasian lines you end up getting a lot of things 'as seen by caucasian culture'. Both the good and the bad.

It is easy to remember the moments when this is done by those caucasians who have the least experience with the people they are charicaturing: so it gets based on stereotypes and 'movie fiction'. I hope this is just because negative memories stick in the mind stronger than positive ones... and not a sign that the negativity is more prevalent.

There are 'blaxploitation' sims, there are people running around as a 'street thug', 'hood rat' or a Japanese Ninja-Geisha (known as the 'dragon lady' stereotype). I've heard more bad renditions of ebonics in some SL venues... usually with every other word being a swear word... The kind of ebonics I've only ever heard on Fox News as opposed to anything I've ever heard in my RL community.

 

The second issue, on women, is a whole other creature that really baffles me. As a space with so many female users - it is strange that the portrayal of women in SL is so often denegrating. And not in the 'subtle ways you need to understand women empowerment to get' but in ways like ending up with a 'dolcet sim' as a neighbor... or 'Gorean slave' concepts - the extremes of hateful misogyny. The kind of stuff even a Republican Candidate for president could understand was wrong... ;)

And then there is when the racism and sexism mixes... the popular 'black hunter' sims: titled as 'inter-racial', which are all about 'thug like black men' and 'southern white women'... and ALL the furniture has poseballs...

- As a real life inter-racial person, I first went to one of those for VERY DIFFERENT reasons than what I found...

 

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arualblues wrote:

"
Does that also mean that SL is sexist as there are 6 times the amount of womens clothing, 3 tomes the womens skins and 4 time the womens hairs as there are mens?
"

Indeed yes and very much yes, a large part of SL is also sexist as hell, athough not in the ridiculous "oh poor white men" way you intend it to imply.

I don't believe i said a damn thing about race pertaining to SL.

There is a huge market for objectification and over sexualization of women -and much MUCH less for men- and, for all that they claim ageplay is against ToS, there are a lot of things out there that are hitting the borderline and they know it, and that is largely addressed to female avatars, not male.

Borderline is not over the line, thank you for playing. Try again.

Want to RP an airline? You have male pilots and female flight attendants. Want to go medieval? Sweet lady and fierce male warrior. Female warrior? Sure, as long as the outfit is sexy and revealing, comic book style.

Fairly sure they have pilot and flight atendants outfits for both sexes. Mideival RP has outfits for both sexes, both of which have revealing options.

I would advice you not to go deep into U.S. actuality, especially if you're going to try to defend white males. You won't come out of that one looking good and it's not the point of this discussion. SL is not U.S. It may surprise you to find out that there is a wide world outside of the U.S.

If you understood what i wrote you would realize i am not defending anyone. Why is a black male in England called an Englishman yet in the US they are African American?

 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

And not in the 'subtle ways you need to understand women empowerment to get' but in ways like ending up with a 'dolcet sim' as a neighbor... or 'Gorean slave' concepts - the extremes of hateful misogyny.

I just want to point out that, although I'm sure there are quite a few misogynistic, dulcet aficionados, the fantasy itself, though quite extreme, has nothing to do with misogyny and doesn't even necessarily have to be hatred-based.

...Dres

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

And not in the 'subtle ways you need to understand women empowerment to get' but in ways like ending up with a 'dolcet sim' as a neighbor... or 'Gorean slave' concepts - the extremes of hateful misogyny.

I just want to point out that, although I'm sure there are quite a few misogynistic, dulcet aficionados, the fantasy itself, though quite extreme, has nothing to do with misogyny and doesn't even necessarily have to be hatred-based.

...Dres

I actually have yet to come across a sim that is male only, yet there are multitudes of female only ones. I love how some people keep saying SL is male dominated and sexist.. Yeah, us guys have it made in SL. Not.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

And not in the 'subtle ways you need to understand women empowerment to get' but in ways like ending up with a 'dolcet sim' as a neighbor... or 'Gorean slave' concepts - the extremes of hateful misogyny.

I just want to point out that, although I'm sure there are quite a few misogynistic, dulcet aficionados, the fantasy itself, though quite extreme, has nothing to do with misogyny and doesn't even necessarily have to be hatred-based.

...Dres

I actually have yet to come across a sim that is male only, yet there are multitudes of female only ones. I love how some people keep saying SL is male dominated and sexist.. Yeah, us guys have it made in SL. Not.

I assume your referencing sims in general, rather than dulcet based sims specifically.  In which case, I believe there's a very good reason why female-only sims far outnumber male-only sims (and yes, they do exist).  It's simple, if you think about it... straight men are far more prone to harass lesbians than are straight women to harass gay men.  While I believe it's a shame they feel as if they've got to shut themselves away, I honestly can't blame them for doing so.

...Dres

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This is naturally true, but I don't believe Pussycat was talking about fantasy sims in general. The kind she mentioned are often quite misogynistic. The whole idea is degrading.

What you said about straight men and lesbian women comes strongly from RL, too. Anyone who has seen "regular" porn knows that lesbian scenes are arousing for the so called male gaze, while gay men is not.

I would anwer something to Drake, but it would be a waste of typing. His last reply was about nothing I said, and his intended burn about borderline ageplay was downright creepy, so... Not going there.

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arualblues wrote:

This is naturally true, but I don't believe Pussycat was talking about fantasy sims in general. The kind she mentioned are often quite misogynistic. The whole idea is degrading.

What you said about straight men and lesbian women comes strongly from RL, too. Anyone who has seen "regular" porn knows that lesbian scenes are arousing for the so called male gaze, while gay men is not.

I would anwer something to Drake, but it would be a waste of typing. His last reply was about nothing I said, and his intended burn about borderline ageplay was downright creepy, so... Not going there.

That is a very childish attitude. I replied to you with coherent responces and you come back with an isult.. nice. Also, borderline ageplay would be school girl outfits and the like.. How is that downright creepy? As long as the person states they are an adult and do not look definitvely childlike who are you to put down anyones RP? Are you saying that Two adults pretending to be a teacher and student is creepier than Dolcette? Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

And not in the 'subtle ways you need to understand women empowerment to get' but in ways like ending up with a 'dolcet sim' as a neighbor... or 'Gorean slave' concepts - the extremes of hateful misogyny.

I just want to point out that, although I'm sure there are quite a few misogynistic, dulcet aficionados, the fantasy itself, though quite extreme, has nothing to do with misogyny and doesn't even necessarily have to be hatred-based.

...Dres

I actually have yet to come across a sim that is male only, yet there are multitudes of female only ones. I love how some people keep saying SL is male dominated and sexist.. Yeah, us guys have it made in SL. Not.

I think I mispelled Dolcet or however it is spelled. Frankly I do not want to google it to find out because I don't need the accompanying images on my screen nor the term added to things google thinks are relevant to my random searching about just about anything...

The fantasy of cannibaling women while having sex with what parts of their bodies you have not yet eaten, and keeping them alive through that horror... though, is entirely hatred-based.

And the fantasy, of Gor, about women as weak and naturally sex-slaves, the fantasy that ALL women will submit once raped, even if they "thought" they were lesbian beforehand, is also purely hatred-based.

 

Oh and I did recently pass a male only venue. I didn't pay it much mind though because there are plenty of female only venues and there is nothing wrong with this in either direction. Its not the same as a 'gentleman's country club' in RL which is objectionable NOT because it is male only, but because it is a place where business and other non-casual connections are made that is male only.

So just having a social space that is male only. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

But that's not what I was referring to, and I don't think, though I might be wrong, is what the person who's subtopic I was somewhat joining was referring to...

The land in SL that I just sold, was my second choice back in 2011 when I first bought it. The first choice, while sitting there getting ready to buy it and measuring out the space... happened to have a very large dolcett club as a neighbor. As soon as I realized what that place was... I went back to looking for land. The reason I was looking for land in 2011... was after leaving a blighted M-rated plot, that I had bought months earlier after I had a 'rape them with a plunger and use a firehose on them in the shower' neighbor move next door to my prior second attempt at A-land... and set his build up 'open air' to mine...

(and that guy is still there, in a particular adult sim, where he has added a hanging noose with sex-poseballs and an anime picture behind it of 3 nude women with nooses on their necks and the one in the middle is about to be hung...)

So... if that isn't misogynist... Some people need their definitions checked with a brick.

And then there's the story of why that one plot was my second attempt at A-rated land...

Sadly the plot I did buy in 2011 was perfect, with great neighbors, but to keep it that way I had to buy some 16000m of land on two sims... and I just couldn't justify that much tier anymore.

 

Now I'm hidden in a little tiny skybox somewhere, where I can't see outside, so if one of those hate-freaks moves in, I won't care.

 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

And not in the 'subtle ways you need to understand women empowerment to get' but in ways like ending up with a 'dolcet sim' as a neighbor... or 'Gorean slave' concepts - the extremes of hateful misogyny.

I just want to point out that, although I'm sure there are quite a few misogynistic, dulcet aficionados, the fantasy itself, though quite extreme, has nothing to do with misogyny and doesn't even necessarily have to be hatred-based.

...Dres

I actually have yet to come across a sim that is male only, yet there are multitudes of female only ones. I love how some people keep saying SL is male dominated and sexist.. Yeah, us guys have it made in SL. Not.

I think I mispelled Dolcet or however it is spelled. Frankly I do not want to google it to find out because I don't need the accompanying images on my screen nor the term added to things google thinks are relevant to my random searching about just about anything...

The fantasy of cannibaling women while having sex with what parts of their bodies you have not yet eaten, and keeping them alive through that horror... though, is entirely hatred-based.

And the fantasy, of Gor, about women as weak and naturally sex-slaves, the fantasy that ALL women will submit once raped, even if they "thought" they were lesbian beforehand, is also purely hatred-based.

 

Oh and I did recently pass a male only venue. I didn't pay it much mind though because there are plenty of female only venues and there is nothing wrong with this in either direction. Its not the same as a 'gentleman's country club' in RL which is objectionable NOT because it is male only, but because it is a place where business and other non-casual connections are made that is male only.

So just having a social space that is male only. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

But that's not what I was referring to, and I don't think, though I might be wrong, is what the person who's subtopic I was somewhat joining was referring to...

The land in SL that I just sold, was my second choice back in 2011 when I first bought it. The first choice, while sitting there getting ready to buy it and measuring out the space... happened to have a very large dolcett club as a neighbor. As soon as I realized what that place was... I went back to looking for land. The reason I was looking for land in 2011... was after leaving a blighted M-rated plot, that I had bought months earlier after I had a 'rape them with a plunger and use a firehose on them in the shower' neighbor move next door to my prior second attempt at A-land... and set his build up 'open air' to mine...

(and that guy is still there, in a particular adult sim, where he has added a hanging noose with sex-poseballs and an anime picture behind it of 3 nude women with nooses on their necks and the one in the middle is about to be hung...)

So... if that isn't misogynist... Some people need their definitions checked with a brick.

And then there's the story of why that one plot was my second attempt at A-rated land...

Sadly the plot I did buy in 2011 was perfect, with great neighbors, but to keep it that way I had to buy some 16000m of land on two sims... and I just couldn't justify that much tier anymore.

 

Now I'm hidden in a little tiny skybox somewhere, where I can't see outside, so if one of those hate-freaks moves in, I won't care.

 

What a ridiculous argument! You would presumably suggest that I have a deep-seated hatred of pigs because I enjoy bacon sandwiches.

And maybe you think cows have a grass fetish . . .

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I can only imagine that you've got some sort of Stylish implementation or something to that effect installed on your browser in order to disregard my posts or, if not, you just choose to disregard what I've got to say... in any case, I find you and your attitude toward those who disagree with you in even the slightest way to be absolutely unconscionable.

Thankfully, I'm not too stupid to realize when someone is basically on my side of the political spectrum and can, therefore, give a bit of credence to what they've got to say.  In other words, as leftist as I am, it simply must not be enough for you... you judgmental **bleep**.

...Dres *thanks heaven that he's not nearly as screwed up as you*

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I never heard of it before this discussion, even went and explored a sim and put my avatar through a meat grinder for laughs.

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

I can only imagine that you've got some sort of Stylish implementation or something to that effect installed on your browser in order to disregard my posts or, if not, you just choose to disregard what I've got to say... in any case, I find you and your attitude toward those who disagree with you in even the slightest way to be absolutely unconscionable.

Thankfully, I'm not too stupid to realize when someone is basically on my side of the political spectrum and can, therefore, give a bit of credence to what they've got to say.  In other words, as leftist as I am, it simply must not be enough for you... you judgmental **bleep**.

...Dres *thanks heaven that he's not nearly as screwed up as you*

Your soul has never been able to express anything but hate since our very first encounter, so your response is no surprise.

 

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Well, in real life I am a black multi-ethnic female that most people think is asian. I actually love sl cause only once has anyone cared that I am black. It was a arabic male looking for a white girlfriend and thought my avi looked white. I really think such problems probably due to what sims you are visiting and the intent of the people behind the avatar for being there. The people I meet just care that I am a good person who shares their interests. Honestly, I think most white avatars are so tan that they are darker than some real life colored folks especially me with my lack of sun in Canada :) My sl family is a bunch of white Americans and a white Australian and they love me and I love them. The majority of the romances I had on here has been with white people. I've been with arab and indian too. You will always find idiots everywhere but this is sl where you should be anything you want to. Easy for me to say cause I am also a monkey and cat on here :D And if someone does not like me I just turn into a dinosaur and bite them - hahaha!

 

 

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Racism in Second Life? Yeah I've encountered it, and White poeple dont often pick up on that its happening. It is often just so subtle that if you are not aware of racial stereo typing you wont catch it. However there those that are not subtle about it at all and are down right rude, and hateful. But there is no need to feel ashamed of your "ethnisity" just cuz you Black or Other. If you want to mingle with people of a differnt cultural base, you have to activly look. There is so much in SL and like anything you have to search for what you want. 

And yeah posting about your RL in the 1st life section? I think there should be a warning " Post this information at your own risk." Personaly on my profile in the 1st life section? I have " Their is no real life only AFK. " 

Roary McGillivary 

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I think, by its very definition, racism does not exist in Second Life.

Racism is more than just a jerk getting mouthy and using slurs.  Racism is a social construct that puts one race in privilege and others in disadvantage.  This is certainly true in real life, where, if you're a minority in America, you understand there are hurdles you have to jump that whites don't.  But that's real life.  In real life, you can't change your avatar, you can't easily change your location, you can't change your name easily, and you can't change society all by yourself.

In Second Life, however, you can change everything about yourself if you're uncomfortable.  If someone's being a jerk, you just block him and move on.  Don't like a certain place, you TP to another place.  With a click or two, you can change your situation.  I wish we could do that in real life.

Thus, Second Life is incapable of being racist, because racism is about power, and in a sim where the individual can control so much about herself and her environment, she has power over any construct that would place disadvantage on her based on skin color or ethnicity.  

Then again, I've been on SL for two years now, I've never seen a sim with a Confederate flag or lynched blacks dangling from tree branches.  If I ever see that, I'll probably change my mind.

 

 

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Necro, but I decided to reply anyway.

As a mixed race person i find people on SL to be quite racist, especially when people find out about my RL background. I stopped sharing my rl information with strangers on sl. if they ask where i am from i mention a continent rather than a country and usually the coversation ends before it even has started. I still get accused for hiding something or not being proud of my origins. Screw that. Don't owe them any explanations.

Edited by Jeny Howlett
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Let's face it, any attitude held by the people who do SL, will make it's way into SL. My avis darker than average skin tone and the fact I like a lot of hair styles that are designed for women with African ancestry means people are sometimes unsure of my race. Why it matters is a good question, but I have had people assure me I don't look black when I mention this, as if looking black is somehow a bad thing. 

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On 1/9/2015 at 0:44 PM, Ashlyn Voir said:

I aplogize in advanced if this was placed in the wrong forum, however, I am looking for opinions from other residents in SL.

_____________________________

Before I get started, I wanted to describe my real life self. I am a young African American college student. I've been on SL for almost seven years now--this is my second account. I used to post real life photos of myself in the real life tab of my profile, but have used both black and white avatars. 

I've noticed whenever I am a black avatar, no one approaches me and whenever they find out I am black in real life, they suddenly stop friending me or messaging me. When I play as a white avatar, other residents approach me more, but until they see my real life tab, they suddenly stop. This happened on several occasions and has been this way since I've been on SL. It's honestly made me very ashamed of my race and I hate the feeling of having to pretend to be someone I am not. But, it seems white avatars, even asian ones, are more appreciated than black females and their avatars. I no longer leave my real life tab avaliable and usually when I am in an area with heavy traffic, I only go as a white avatar because I find that people are more open to chatting with me. 

In many ways, I feel awful for wasting so much time and money into something if I knew this would always happen. 

i can explain this behavior  1, whenever i see a black girl avatar and a black girl pic in the real life tab i think  back to when i use to get tons of  spam emails from girls in ghana asking  me for money or sayin they were americans that needed help so i just ignore all black girls now but really you been blacks not a problem spam emails are 

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Apparently you can be as racist as you want in SL as long as you make a disclaimer that its just RP.

There are white supremacist and black supremacist groups which describe themselves in the most vile language possible, but at the end of the description they always say "RP only, no real racists allowed.

On the other hand, the creator of a Dukes of Hazzard General Lee Charger had her car delisted on MP because of that horrible evil racist Confederate flag on the roof.

*rolls eyes*

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On 8/13/2017 at 8:29 AM, Talligurl said:

Let's face it, any attitude held by the people who do SL, will make it's way into SL. My avis darker than average skin tone and the fact I like a lot of hair styles that are designed for women with African ancestry means people are sometimes unsure of my race. Why it matters is a good question, but I have had people assure me I don't look black when I mention this, as if looking black is somehow a bad thing. 

I was surprised when one of my gfs claimed to be black, I always thought she just had a dark tan.

:)

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On 8/13/2017 at 2:39 AM, MiaAngelaCarina said:

 

Then again, I've been on SL for two years now, I've never seen a sim with a Confederate flag or lynched blacks dangling from tree branches.  If I ever see that, I'll probably change my mind.

 

 

Drop by my clubhouse sometimes, It has Confederate flags. There's also a monument honoring the Confederate soldiers who died fighting for their country.

The big African-American guy you might see hanging around, hes not a slave, he's my boyfriend.

:)

Edited by BilliJo Aldrin
changed black to African American
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