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Toysoldier Thor

REDZONE IS DYING? Merchants Running RZ - Remove or else (from LL)

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Theia Magic wrote:

There is no reasons to keep Redzone alive.  None.  It's the epic failure of copybot detection being as only .025% of banned avatars are banned for copybotting.  Then, take into consideration the number of those avatars banned because they were incorrectly linked as an alt to copybotter, the success rate gets even more dismal.  

As for griefers?  Again, do you have any idea how many innocent people have been banned because of bad avatar links?  Thousands of them.

Thanks to LL's action to make revealing alts against TOS, at least it can't be used to violate privacy anymore.

However, it's very important that everyone realizes
it's still out there, it's still active, and it's still collecting IP addresses.  It's crucial that you leave media and cookies disabled unless you're 100% sure you're in a Redzone free area.  Considering the fact zFire has threatened to make the alt list viewable on a website separate from Linden Lab, for payment via Paypal instead of L$, it's all the more reason to keep your IP out of his corrupt database.

^THIS^// RZ is NOT bannedand this headline probably did more damage to the cause against redzone thanall of zfire's protests.

 

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Denver Ghost wrote:

 

Theia Magic wrote:

There is no reasons to keep Redzone alive.  None.  It's the epic failure of copybot detection being as only .025% of banned avatars are banned for copybotting.  Then, take into consideration the number of those avatars banned because they were incorrectly linked as an alt to copybotter, the success rate gets even more dismal.  

As for griefers?  Again, do you have any idea how many innocent people have been banned because of bad avatar links?  Thousands of them.

Thanks to LL's action to make revealing alts against TOS, at least it can't be used to violate privacy anymore.

However, it's very important that everyone realizes
it's still out there, it's still active, and it's still collecting IP addresses.  It's crucial that you leave media and cookies disabled unless you're 100% sure you're in a Redzone free area.  Considering the fact zFire has threatened to make the alt list viewable on a website separate from Linden Lab, for payment via Paypal instead of L$, it's all the more reason to keep your IP out of his corrupt database.

^THIS^// RZ is NOT bannedand this headline probably did more damage to the cause against redzone thanall of zfire's protests.

 

Yeah I agree and that's why I added that.  It's still very much active and still a threat, especially in the hands of zFire.

 

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Theia Magic wrote:

 It's the epic failure of copybot detection being as only .025% of banned avatars are banned for copybotting.  Then, take into consideration the number of those avatars banned because they were incorrectly linked as an alt to copybotter, the success rate gets even more dismal. 

 

Well, when I read some arguments of zFire and his bunch of zealots, I really expect him to play the Edison card who said "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." (This would be a success rate of .01%)  

In RedZone's case the success rate is, as you stated .025% - Thus, this quote would be translated to: "I didn't FAIL with my RedZone system, I've just found 3,999 ways that won't work". Plus, in addition (in case he were honest), "Though I still have to find out which one out of 4,000 is the way that did."

*scnr*

 

Though considering that the current system had quite a few predecessors and claims to have become more effective - and given that these 0.025% are the total sum between the day this spyware was used first, and recently -  I tend to think that even these 0.025% of supposed-to-be offenders/copybutters/greifers (yes, the typos are intentional) have been found out rather coincidentally than by the "effectiveness" of this spyware's database.

 

As I said, also in presence of a few Lindens, I rather wish that RedZone, CDS, and any other similar spyware get blocked, banned, and generally made impossible on the grid.

What's the problem anyways with having alts?

Whether someone has any alt accounts or not, if yes how many, and who these alts (supposedly) are and what they (supposedly) do, is nobody's business except the account owner and Linden Lab. To disclose these alts and/or to connect them to each of their other accounts, is and has to be entire up to the account owner, not to anybody else.

Do i deceive others using alts? No. Never have and never will. Have I use alts to do something I feel I can't do with my main? Yes. Nonetheless, all my alts have my name and pic in their 1st Life part of the profile, thus are openly linked to me. I don't even hide their names in forums or towards people I know. The people I'm close to do know my alts, know what they do, have them on their friends list as well. But still it's ME who decides what I disclose, when, in which context, and to whom.

Have I ever been deceived or tricked by using alts myself? Yes I have. A few times I know of, and probably quite a few times more I don't know of. So what? That happens on the 2D internet as well. Even in RL.

People sometimes use a different name for different activities, not always for illegal things. For example: I have a few real close RL friends who I only know by nickname. I even once had a "D'oh!" moment when I asked "Who is that?" as the real name of one of my friends was mentioned. I just didn't mind: it's them, not their names or professions or even titles, I care about. Some authors and other artists have an alias. People who are active in forums and chats have an alias. People get nicknames that become their alias. People even (sometimes only subconsciously) behave differently whether they are in public, in the office, at the gym, at home with family, in a pub with friends, while doing whatever they love doing, or while being alone or with their SO - here in SL we can and do be different by even using a different account for each alias, for being or doing whatever rocks our boat.

Is it anyone's business to spoil our second life (lives) by disclosing alts or connecting supposed alts? No, of course not.

And so, I too treat each avatar as a different person, as if there were another RL person behind them, until I learn - from the person behind this avatar - that they are an alt or main account of someone I already know.

 

 

ETA: 100th post! YAY!! :)

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For businesses and places that still have zF RedZone, please use the sign below:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/KK-Signs-zF-RedZone-Enabled-Boxed/1985701

For businesses and places that don't have zF RedZone but would like to put up their own Privacy Policy, please use the sign below:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/KK-Signs-Privacy-Policy-Boxed/2001035

If you are a zF RedZone user or owner, then you might like this Shirt:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/KK-2011-Shirt-All-Your-ALTS-Belong-To-Us-Red-MF-Boxed/1982394

If you are NOT a zF RedZone user or owner, then you might like the Green version of the shirt. You can get one from the GreenZone group in-world. LOL!

By the way, the items above are FREE!

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"Considering the fact zFire has threatened to make the alt list viewable on a website separate from Linden Lab, for payment via Paypal instead of L$, it's all the more reason to keep your IP out of his corrupt database."

 

That in itself is an open-door for legal violations. Red-Zone is inappropriate due to both it's privacy issues and the fact that every-day, non-linden lab employees can go to this 3rd party website and have acess to IP adresses and alts of users using Second Life.

Someone out there collecting/harvesting data about others and linking them back to their account-holder is abosolutely disgusting. It can result in abusive behavior like stalking and other harmful activities, and god-forbid if it goes into RL. Whoever owns their alts, "griefers" or not its no-one elses business to know who owns what account unless they are the company linden-lab itself.

 

Don't want certain people on your land? There's these things called an "acess list" and a system called "abuse report".There's also these functions that can disable scripts and rezzing too. RedZone a direct violation of TOS for invading the privacy of every-resident that comes upon a red-zone infected land and its saddening to see land-barons(and land owners) abusive their privileges of service by using a device that violates the rights of every SL resident. A device(or "hud") that is gathering information and hosting it on a 3rd party website that anyone can acess once free now requiring easy payment.

The fight is not over. Big Red has been officially adressed(and hopefully removed from LL all together) but there are still "mini-reds" located wide throughout the grid in use by their paranoid land-owners who violate the virtual experience of others by using these inappropriate devices. You have tried to protect your "lands" from griefers yet sadly, you have become the griefers yourselves.  We are the consumers and your customers, the residents of Second Life much as you are and we will not tolerate this act of privacy invasion.

I encourage those who care and are concern of their privacy to AR Red-Zone lands and the Red-Zone devices that violate TOS standards. To any owner that is sensible enough to remove this "spyware" my hat off to you.

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Yup Denver, Redzone isn't dead and nor are its users giving up the fight, as exemplified by vanishing threads that invite them to proudly advertise their business is protected by Redzone, this sure hasn't gone away yet.

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Feel better now Denver?  Changed the title for ya.

 

PS - off topic - how is the growing list of forum members getting a new special blue MEMBER avatar in the forums?  Member of what?  This is a useful new avatr icon in the forums when someone is a "member" of ....??

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:

Feel better now Denver?  Changed the title for ya.

 

PS - off topic - how is the growing list of forum members getting a new special blue MEMBER avatar in the forums?  Member of what?  This is a useful new avatr icon in the forums when someone is a "member" of ....??

Ranks are partially explained here Members get extra features such as posting youTube videos!!!.

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i visited the Redzone forums......i can't beleive zfire's claims of 20,000 of these gadgets being sold. I think that's an outright lie. That would imply that this guy made sales of 80 million Lindens (or 300k+ USD).

I know a lot of fellow Merchants and i can't say that i know of any Red Zone users....maybe 1 or 2 at best.

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Mickey Vandeverre wrote:

Regardless of thread title, still a lot of ground to cover on the redzone issue. 

People who traveled throughout the grid in the last 6 months pretty much got their IP address collected and stored, considering the names of stores that were appearing on the name and shame lists. Went to most of my haunts, and sure enough.  These were popular places.  And I do mean "were."  Damage was done.

Reading comments on dude's forum, doubt that information will be disposed of, (quite the contrary, in fact, with a ban)....and doubt there won't be some trials and tribs coming down the road for some people exploited with that info.

Recently, it was brought to attention that some places are hiding the devices, and curious on how we can determine that, without the aid of the site that was collecting that information.
  It seems to have disappeared.  Many more questions concerning the hiding of this device and how to detect that, and how those continuing to hide the device will be dealt with.

Talking inworld, most people have never even heard of redzone.  But you can betcha these people dropped their IP address in several locations over the last six months.  Hate the fact that they don't have a clue.

Took a solid week of reading to get hip on what the issues are.  Most people won't do that. 

Long way to go.

Thanks for all the twitter postings and RTs. 

 

 

1. damage was done...GOOD! This is the most despicable thing LL has ever ALLOWED. CDS,RZ..all still there and threats to the grid. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has ceased spending in SL or buying lindens/visiting clubs (why without music)/tipping Djs or peformers (goes without saying). I can't make a difference by withholding my money from LL, but ALL OF US CAN.

2. Yes they are hiding it, which is why as much as I love ya Theia, I disagree with your white list..because it isn't and can't be proven. I've found several places who are "hiding" RZ by increasing the scan time. If you are merely checking lcoations, you TP in, get an all clear from Greenzone, and either leave or open music and proceed. If you'd just waited a minute or two, you would see the warning alarm from Gz...too late. Some are also lowering the can distance to a small zone one must walk through to enter the area, but from the landing zone, it looks clear to greenzone.

One complaint I have is Greenzone maker is not forthcoming with help at all!!. They attempt to obfuscate the limitations of greenzone, and never will make it clear even in IM just exactly how redzone can hide from Gz. They could help by being more transparent. Many think Gz can find Rz in every case and it's not true. However, there was some MISinformation posted here once that said Gz could give a false positive. That is just NOT true.

This thing and all others like it need to be zapped from the grid and all inventories. Until then, all of this LL corporate speak has no teeth and means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Actions speak louder than words LL. Pull the devices and do the right thing. Until then, you won't get another thin linden from me and neither will the SL Economy.

Redzone is not dead and it's not banned. It's still collecting your information for disclosure in SL or RL and there is nothing you can do to stop it. ARs are simply a joke. This does not address the fact that SL is now totally destroyed without music. Lindens do only as much as needed to silence the bad press, never caring to solve the problem. Up yours SL. YOu're killing your own world. But then what else is new.

BTW Linden Lab, DISCLOSURE to the OWNER of the device whether he tells someone or not is STILL DISCLOSURE YOU IDIOTS!!!!

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Know whats scary is the people who are using this system but aren't business owners. Moved onto a new residential sim last week and the neighbour was scanning the entire sim with his little red-zone product. Who knows how long he has actually been scanning all the people who live and visit that sim. Needless to say after a chat to the landowner he's no longer one of our neighbours anymore :)

Sadly without LL doing a product delete this thing will never be completely gone from SL.

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It's interesting that instead of accepting the new community standards, Redzone users are continuing to look at ways to get around the rules, their latest bright idea being to host music streams that collect the data, it says a lot about those who use the system that they want to break the rules rather than comply.

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Porky Gorky said:

"Remove peoples ability to vote and they will make their views known in more extreme ways."

 

- I can see it now. In-world rallies with residents burning Lindens in effigy & reporters filming it all for the 6 o'clock news.

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Persephone Emerald wrote:

Porky Gorky said:

"Remove peoples ability to vote and they will make their views known in more extreme ways."

 

- I can see it now. In-world rallies with residents burning Lindens in effigy & reporters filming it all for the 6 o'clock news.

 

LOL well I guess that is never beyond the realm of possibility. 

I was eluding more to people spamming with allot of duplicate JIRA's, derailing user groups/office hours to express their opinions on JIRA's or just allot more moaning and bitching on the forums and blog comments about issues they are passionate about.

I guess we will see for ourselves soon enough as the removal of JIRA voting is going to happen.

 

 

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Mickey said: Talking inworld, most people have never even heard of redzone.  But you can betcha these people dropped their IP address in several locations over the last six months.  Hate the fact that they don't have a clue.

 

They don't know? Last night a good friend was  detected by redzone by the next sim over. She got a popup or something. So she tp'd out as fast as she could. She has alts, as do I, but they're only for managing land and working.

I should wear my Green Zone hud more often.

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Well I guess one can categorize this late breaking news / on Redzone under the label of "SWEET JUSTICE"

http://alphavilleherald.com/2011/03/zf-redzone-security-breached-sl-passwords-compromised.html

So basically, hackers have hacked the SL hacker and what they found inside will have all of zFire's Customer Base scrambling in fear to change all their passwords related to the account ID they exposed to zFire as one of his customers.  His DB was cracked and the passowrds of his customer base was weak and easy to expose.  Not only that - but what was revealed for all to see was that failed passwords were being collected... there are only a few reasons one would be doing that.

I have little sympathy for any of the 1000's of RZ customers that were so loyal to zFire and RZ and all the legit and moral reasons for secretly collecting our private information.  When you sign up and work in harmony with a Hacker - you get all the moralities of a hacker. 

But of course, I dont see why all of RZ's customers would be worried that their account and passwords and failed passwords were all being kept, and poorly protected, and used by zFire for what ever reasons he saw fit.  Afterall, this was the position they have all stood by on why it was ok for them to conspire secretly with zFire to collect and harvest and use all our private information.... RIGHT?

So if you are or have been a custom of Redzone or logged into his website, I would be scrambling REAL QUICK now to change all your passwords for all your systems where you used the same User ID as you gave to him freely. 

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I do feel a little sorry for all the users of RZ who genuinely believed what zFire had to say, and what he was doing on behalf of their inworld security, because not all of them thought of him as a god..they genuinely believed in his product.  But to those who insisted that they could do what they wanted with people's information. I wonder how many people now think that zFire is a criminal.cheater.griefer.copybotter, afterall he has 14 alts connected to his IP address, and wasn't that their mindset if you had alts?  Silly, silly people. the thing with 'successful' conmen is their ability to sell themselves as genuine.

But did they genuinely, deep down in their gut think that if he was harvesting the innocents SL/IP information that he wouldn't be doing it to them to? Not only that but he has taken his clients trust and used it against them in the worse way possible. It seems the zFire has gone to ground and wont comment on the information gotten from his own web site. When he does no doubt he will claim the information gotten is fake *sighs* maybe now LL will do something about all these devices, not just his.

And to all you RZ users who believed your god could do no wrong..you made people's lives in SL a living hell, you encouraged people to turn against innocent SL users, to abuse them, to humiliate them, you thought you were above everyone else. You played with fire and zFIRE burned you...

*gets out sausages and marshmallows and happily sits roasting on the pile of RZ users currently burning in their own made hell*

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I know... I feel bad for them but again... if you establish ANY form of formal relationship with a hacker (even as an unwitting customer) - you are taking the risks on how you will be treated.

Remember - zfire was sending very clear signals on his defiance in the face of heat placed upon him - even making posts threatening how he was going to maintain operations if LL tried to stop him.  That to me was a major warning sign of who we all were dealing with.

So sadly he first got huge business and $ from the SL community of frustrated / angry Merchants & Club Owners that had very little protection tools from LL and felt that addressing their own interests at the cost of their own customers privacy was worth signing up with the snake oil that RZ promised them.

Then he gained more business and $ from more customers that simply loved the idea of having the power to be able to spy (know anonymous secrets) about fellow SL residents.

And finally zFire got more business from several of the original victims of his service that all his first phases of customers willingly collected for him - and they subscribed in desperation to get a glimpse of that harvested database of SL residents to see where they fit in.

And now... the question has to be asked - seeing what information his DB actually has maintained on even his own customers (i.e. failed passwords)... was the original intent all along for zfire to use the RZ tool as a LURE that fed off the intense frustrations and fears of naive merchants and club owners in an ultimate goal to actually collect their more private and intimate data? 

i.e. my IP address and how he used its annoying but not dangerous for my RL identity (just potentially violates my SL anonymity), but to get an actual SL ACCOUNT with a Password.... now we are talking REAL Privacy Data Goldmine for any hacking community member.

Just a thought to ponder.

 

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I just clicked on the link you posted that you said you got a 500 error on and I had no troubles getting to it.

Maybe the site is congested with everyone reading the news about zFire's hacked customer DC.

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That is what boggles my mind that with all the evidence of repeated and flagrant TOS violations by the product owner attempting to keep it in the SL market - that the product and moreso the owner have not been removed from SL. 

LL has removed SL residents for TOS violations that have been significantly smaller is scale then the impact of RZ.  SL Residents have been removed from SL with far less chance - i.e. 1 violation.... and yet in this situation... LL seems afraid to take decisive actions.

Not sure why

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 Is there any Official confirmation that zfRedZone  is  banned.? I am confused as  what I have read  between SLuniverse the RedZone Forums and here, the only Official word has been  that the  systems  can nolonger  disclose ALT information(a win  ..huge win).....

I see that the  System is  still available  for sale  at the store- I am guessing that it has been modified to no longer disclose  ALT  information (  the  word  on the RedZone Forums)...

 

I note  with interest that Soft Linden encourages us  to AR  the  system  and those  using it,  and goes on to qualify this  some  re-enforcing   the  gathering of  evidence  to support the AR, now  that a bit of a  clanger for me,  because I have  never found anyone  happily  disclosing ALT information to me, that has been gained  using any of these ALT  disclosing systems   in fact  the  opposite  it seems there is a  small circle  that this information circulates  within..Additionly  I have  never been able to TAP a  skull  no  matter how well it hidden,  and  it  gives me  a  list  of  things  it doing,  So how  do you AR  something you know  exists,  but you have not direct evidence of  it,  doing an AR'able action.

So have we  been duped into a  sense of  security by  Spin,  and ZFire goes to ground  and takes the RedZone  community underground    till the dust settles and  then brings the  system back in full  function under a  more discrete manner

I notice  also that the  Zf RedZone Forum  site is  no-longer  accessible(can't be a bad thing), could this  be evidence  that  the  RedZone  is  under investigation  and the site  is getting pulled  down,   or is it  xFire's reaction to having site  Hacked(  gotta  loveit when a  Hacker gets  hacked-giggles)- I can almost vision  zFire ( the  Mad Scientist)  CrackerJack( the Henchman)  huddled  in there  bunker    planning  there next move--oh wait  maybe    zFire  and CrakerJack the  same  person   .. Wahoo!!!   have I just developed  my own ALT  detector( a little  dubious in accuracy   but hey!..,   seems to work for others)  ..

 

on the  Upside    I am a  strong believer in No-News is good  news, I  am assuming the position that  LL  is  being Poker face   about this  issue,   much like a   duck on a  pond   what we  see is very little  but  under the  water  there  is  feverish  action, as they  code and seek legal  direction....

 I continue  to watch this  as  I am guessing   most of   us  will..

 

foot Note:  ...  do you think all the video's  are true  about the   SL  password thing  ..  and the  statements he makes about lack of  respect  for  folks information, like truly  surely  someone that can  write  this code, could   not be soo  stupid   to  continually shoot self  in foot....?   right ..?   

Seriously at the end of  day   once this  is  settled    this guy  has    got it  made with Comedy  Movie  deals and  educational   films  on " how   NOT  to Be  a  Spy", "  Public liaison  and  how I did  My way ", "  whdah! mean I  was doing Wrong", " Privacy and other  Urban myths"

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Redzone is DEAD, completly> Scripts have been removed ,as has the creator and alts thereof, land group everything is gone. No more need for RZ drama> Joy to the grid. now LL FIX THE HOLES!

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