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Vick Forcella

Talking Redzone

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Thanks for the tip about editing forum posts.

I agree. My crime was probably visiting my (then) favorite club. And...dancing! The shame!!

(crime = added to the RZ database.)

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Jeepers, Vick.  You start this thread, a handful of posts later: problem solved.

This is some forum here, eh wot?

I wanted 600 posts... But I'm very happy LL plugged this hole temporarily.

 

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Vick Forcella wrote:

 I wanted 600 posts... But I'm very happy LL plugged this hole temporarily.

 

 

Go for 666 posts.. That triggers the Four Data Harversters of the Apocalypse.

 

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Sling Trebuchet wrote:

 

Vick Forcella wrote:

 I wanted 600 posts... But I'm very happy LL plugged this hole temporarily.

 

 

Go for 666 posts.. That triggers the Four Data Harversters of the Apocalypse.

 

LOL! :smileyvery-happy: I wonder what tomorrow will bring though. The statement concerning RZ seems not to be final. I guess when folks discover their devices MIA, then we will have resolution.

 

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We need to sort out the issues before IPv6 takes over from IPv4. Much of the unbcertainty about IP addresses--the shareing and the re-use--vanishes with IPv6. Where there are privacy laws, the advice to those who collect data is to treat an IP address as though it identifies an individual, because some IP addresses do.

IP addresses are rather like telephone numbers. They need to be passed around so that the internet can work. That's the inescapable technical reality that RedZone exploits. It needs to be controlled by regulation, whether the SL TOS or through statute law. Without it, we get abused by the sort of amoral idiots who think it is a good idea to keep making advertising phone calls from overseas call centres, or who pay the spammers to flood out mailboxes.

Right now, I have no protection if I deal directly with a US company. (And some of the security checks I am protected by in Europe, when making purchases on the internet, I've never seen applied in the USA.) The Lindens charge me VAT, a European tax, but they don't seem to guarantee, yet, the data protection with European laws grant me.

No taxation without data protection!

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WolfBaginski Bearsfoot wrote:

We need to sort out the issues before IPv6 takes over from IPv4. Much of the unbcertainty about IP addresses--the shareing and the re-use--vanishes with IPv6. Where there are privacy laws, the advice to those who collect data is to treat an IP address as though it identifies an individual, because some IP addresses do.

IP addresses are rather like telephone numbers. They need to be passed around so that the internet can work. That's the inescapable technical reality that RedZone exploits. It needs to be controlled by regulation, whether the SL TOS or through statute law. Without it, we get abused by the sort of amoral idiots who think it is a good idea to keep making advertising phone calls from overseas call centres, or who pay the spammers to flood out mailboxes.

Right now, I have no protection if I deal directly with a US company. (And some of the security checks I am protected by in Europe, when making purchases on the internet, I've never seen applied in the USA.) The Lindens charge me VAT, a European tax, but they don't seem to guarantee, yet, the data protection with European laws grant me.

No taxation without data protection!

 

I don't see the big deal about IP addresses in itself...every website collects that data,.. it's a log of website connections.

The problem with Redzone is matching IP numbers to SL avatars and dislosing their lists for a sum of Linden dollars....that's where the privacy issues regarding Avatars occur...however it doesn't necessarily involve RL information, unless your avatar is tied to Facebook or Twitter etc

I'd be very surprised if someone here could link my currrent IP number to my RL name & address....at best you might get the area I live in, give or take a few miles.

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People might like to know that the latest versions of Henri Beauchamp's Cool VL Viewer   and Lance Corrimal's Dolphin 1.5 contain versions of a new Media Filter patch by Sione Lomu that alerts you when parcel media is trying to load a URL -- a perfectly legitimate thing for parcel media to want to do, of course, under normal circumstances -- and tells you what the domain name is for the URL that is attempting to load.   

It then asks you what you want to do about the URL -- allow it to play, don't allow it, always allow it or blacklist it.   So if you find parcel media is trying to hijack your viewer and make it load a suspicious URL (the exploit RedZone and similar products use), you can act accordingly.

A version of this patch will, I understand, be available in the next issue of Phoenix and, it is hoped, a V2 Version will be adopted by Firestorm.

This isn't a substitute for exercising caution about where you allow media, of course, but is a major weapon in your armoury if you are concerned about clandestine attempts to sniff your ISP, or other details, for possibly nefarious purposes.

 

 

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When Gemini CDS was released, back in 2009 sometime, similar issues were raised. CDS is still here.  RZ is still here. Others are still here, and new ones growing.  Further, I seriously doubt the TOS being updated in the near future banning RZ, or any number of similar devices.

A JIRA is good, and I voted, but it is my opinion that it has no more power than that of a referendum.  It is simply like an old dog barking at shadows.  Something more is required in this fight to bring about the desired outcome, not simply a JIRA alone.

The real question is: “Is anyone willing to take that route, that stand?” I do not think so, due to it not being financially feasible stand.

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

People might like to know that the latest versions of Henri Beauchamp's
and Lance Corrimal's
contain versions of a new
that alerts you when parcel media is trying to load a URL -- a perfectly legitimate thing for parcel media to want to do, of course, under normal circumstances -- and tells you what the domain name is for the URL that is attempting to load.

It then asks you what you want to do about the URL -- allow it to play, don't allow it, always allow it or blacklist it.   So if you find parcel media is trying to hijack your viewer and make it load a suspicious URL (the exploit RedZone and similar products use), you can act accordingly.

A version of this patch will, I understand, be available in the next issue of Phoenix and, it is hoped, a V2 Version will be adopted by Firestorm.

This isn't a substitute for exercising caution about where you allow media, of course, but is a major weapon in your armoury if you are concerned about clandestine attempts to sniff your ISP, or other details, for possibly nefarious purposes.

 

 

Thank you for that information, Innula, it is very useful.

 

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That reminds of an english comedian.... A man, Mr Smith, is in a council meeting... and he wants to know know from Councilman Jones, what are they going to do about a pond at the end of his garden, that is full of disease. The Councilman answers, "Mr Smith, we have decided what we are going to do... we will give you two ducks..."

Sounds like LL have given us two ducks....

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Things seem to be moving rather rapidly; Oz Linden has created this jira and assigned it to himself:  STORM-1037 : Remove the 'Hide URL' checkbox for media URLs because it is misleading:

Through various debugging capabilities present in the viewer, including the log file, it is trivial to obtain the URLs that are obfuscated by using the 'Hide URL' checkboxes. Since that checkbox may lead users to incorrectly believe that the URL is genuinely private, having it is harmful.

For other reasons, allowing users to see the URLs that may be fetched by the viewer (including that such access may allow the IP address of the viewer to be tracked) is desireable.

And Tonya Souther has linked it to VWR-25062: Add the ability to allow or deny domains that parcel owners want to play in the viewer's media and audio players:

This feature adds the ability for a user to manually allow or deny any media or audio URL that is requested to be played in the viewer, either in the parcel properties or started by a script. The domain of the URL can also be whitelisted or blacklisted. Finally, the whitelist and blacklist can be edited by the user.

The change is in the repository at  http://bitbucket.org/tonyasouther/mediafilter There are two revisions of interest: the revision just prior to the tip (revision 14792, changeset 44cdb756f4ff), which is the main one relative to viewer-development, should be used alone if STORM-1037 is not implemented, while the tip revision (revision 14793, changeset d1026b1df46f) should be added if STORM-1037 is implemented. The latter changeset removes the code that masks the URL in the dialog presented to the user.

So it rather looks as if, one way or another, a version of Sione's Media Filter will very shortly be a feature of the official V2 viewer.

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

So it rather looks as if, one way or another, a version of Sione's Media Filter will very shortly be a feature of the official V2 viewer.

Thank you for following this -- it's very good news. I appreciate the post.

 

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Baeric Constantine wrote:

That reminds of an english comedian.... A man, Mr Smith, is in a council meeting... and he wants to know know from Councilman Jones, what are they going to do about a pond at the end of his garden, that is full of disease. The Councilman answers, "Mr Smith, we have decided what we are going to do... we will give you two ducks..."

Sounds like LL have given us two ducks....

 

The idea of LL actually giving a duck is novel.

 

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My recent comment in the mega-JIRA:-

 

In a Net where RL people access content, a ban on harvesting information RL information without consent is appropriate.

In a virtual world, where avatars access content, the ban on non-consented harvesting must include harvesting of information at the avatar level.

An extract from one of the many Forum threads
http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussions/You-are-being-tracked-in-SL-by-third-parties-and-there-is/td-p/515731/page/11

==============================================================================
So Adams, if I understand you right...

Some random guy in your town has set up a system

It's got scanners all over town

When someone passes a scanner, it gets their name and feeds it back to the guys website

People can log in to the website and get answers to:
(pretending that Adams Scarman is your RL name)

  • Where is Adams Scarman right now ?
  • List the places where Adams Scarman was over the past two days.
  • List the people who are in the same place as Adams Scarman
  • List the people who were with Adams Scarman in Joe's Bar last night
  • List the people who were with Adams Scarman after he left the bar and up to 8am the following morning
  • Where did he spend the night?
  • Who was with him?

This system exists in your RL town??? And you're cool with that??

==================================================================================

If people thought that such a system existed in RL, there would be war.
Why should such a system be accepted by avatars in SL?

 

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Paladin Pinion wrote:

 

Innula Zenovka wrote:

So it rather looks as if, one way or another, a version of Sione's Media Filter will very shortly be a feature of the official V2 viewer.

Thank you for following this -- it's very good news. I appreciate the post.

 

 

You are most welcome.   And there is still more good news!   Lance Corrimal, who makes the excellent Dolpin viewer, writes in the jira

that patch has already been approved for viewer 2.6, whenever that may be.
It'll also be in the next release of the Dolphin Viewer 2 (2.5.2) which will be out considerably earlier than official 2.6

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Clarissa Lowell wrote:

You know what's ironic? In one of the rants the mall owner IMed to me, she was saying how she uses Red Zone innocently (I never even IMed her or another of the three who IMed, at all, before they IMed me btw) and that (she named a person I forgot his name) so and so uses it just to look up people he dislikes and get them banned anywhere he can. And yet in her next IM she was telling me that I'm a "little griefer" and she has read my (supposed) alts (she never named them, I didn't want to know or ask anyway.) Just to make me feel bad I'm sure. So I don't think she uses it so innocently after all.

They all seem to think they use it innocently but even if they don't use it in an argument they are still adding the names so other people can.

My question would be: Isn't the device itself breaking disclosure TOS since IT is disclosing information I don't want strangers to know? It's telling it to another avatar I never met before...So does it have to be an avatar telling another avatar, to break disclosure TOS or can it be a thing telling another avatar. Because that thing told something about me to some crazy lady and who knows who she told by now.

I'm not afraid of her but it made me feel really bad. I just do not feel the same about SL until this is all gone.

Hey Clarissa,

You need to AR each person who IMed you.  Include that they are using redzone and using the alt feature as well as the copy of the content of the IM.  When they IMed being abusive, they are harassing you. 

Yes, it is a TOS violation as of March 1, especially the use of the alt detection portion.

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LL revoved redzone, a tos leagal item, without explanation or reimbersement. they have not even offered an alternative so we can ban a user not just an avi. this thell me they can remove anything for any reason . it dont have to be against thier tos

be carefull about wut security u buy cuz they may rip it from under u without a good reason or explanation. and when u ask em about it , they refuse to tell u anything they tell ypu they dnt have that info. well all i can say is your the one doing shouldnt you have the info?

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first off redzone didnt tell me where u have been, the fact that u asume that tell me you know nothing about it, it told when when u visited my sim only, and if i ban u , it banned you only from my sim and banned your alts only from my sim, 

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Actually, it IS in violation of the (recently revised) Community Standards:

4. Disclosure

Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about your fellow Residents without their consent -- including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, alternate account names, and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their Resident profile -- is not allowed. Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited.


 


Tank Camino wrote:

LL revoved redzone, a tos leagal item, ..

 

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LL has always had the legal right to remove content from the grid and thier servers at any time without any explaination or reason and without compensation.

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Had you banned certain people you would have also banned me, an innocent person. I know for a fact that there were accounts listed as my alts that were NOT mine. If you don't care that you ban innocent people that says a lot about you.

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