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Adam Spark

Viewer 2 after one full year

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The first look at Viewer 2.0 was publically released on February 23, 2010. Viewer 2.0 is no longer supported, and the current viewer is Viewer 2.5. Wanted to start this discussion on February 23rd of this year, but the old forums were shut down prior to that date.

Any thoughts on the development of the Viewer 2 branch of viewers so far?

I still can't forget LL's huge blunder, releasing Viewer 2.0 before it was anywhere near ready. It was ok as far as stability, but it was so far out of touch with how residents were using SL, they might as well have provided a download link to Mozilla Firefox instead.

Some things, however, I've always loved. And that is why I have rooted V2 on, because from day one, I saw huge potential. It was absolutely nothing beyond potential in the early days, but it was potential. And lots of it. The favorites bar, the back and forward buttons, teleport history and inventory links I can now not live without. I was also excited about Shared Media, although I still have to dig for content, which is disappointing.

What did I hate, that has now been fixed? I hated the way you could not easily attach things to notices. You had to open up inventory and then open a second window, and then do your notice. Today, you just click the inventory button in the notice window to launch an inventory popup. Nice work, LL.

Remember how typing often resulted in running into avatars or jumping around like a nut because the chat bar lost focus? FIXED (via preferences)! This, to me, was the biggest fix of them all.

Remember how you could not build via right-click on top of another prim, like a house floor? FIXED.

Sidebar panels can now be detached. Not a perfectly finished solution, but a start. Although I for one rarely have the sidebar open (and yes, I build. I really don't see how the sidebar is anti-build. But thats another discussion).

I like the share option when you right-click on an inventory item. Somewhat recent addition that saves time in some instances.

Transparency options have been improved dramatically.

I'm sure I'm missing a few things. Point is, the Viewer 2 branch isn't just one viewer, and the series has come a long ways in a year. Any Viewer 2.5 users have any other thoughts about its progress to date?

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I only started using it exclusively when they re-added the daily events calendar to V2 search (another fix I forgot to mention in my original post). But I too have loved it from the very beginning.

Well, ok, I admit - I am now using Firestorm a little bit as well. Not a bad V2-based TPV at all. BUT LL's version is still my viewer of choice.

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Viewer 2 had a number of great ideas, but also a lot of technical challenges.  But those responsible are gone, the development process has changed, and since last summer I think the viewer development process has definitely been on the right track ever since.  As one of many participants in the Snowstorm viewer development team (relaying feedback gathered from other creators, from customers, and from communities and providing testing/feedback to the group), I'm proud of where the Viewer is today, and excited about where things are headed.

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I have tried every single release of Viever 2 and it has not improved, it get's worse with every release, the useability issues have not been adressed, the really strange menus are still there ( Look at Kokua, they have the standard menus (File, Edit, view etc) on a V2 codebase), the sidebar ( to quote the Misfits, Die, die, die, my sidebar) is still there as a central element ( now, even the mini map will be stuffed in there), and the web profiles are the worst addition to a badly designed product, making v2 even less useable (not talking about the privacy violation). LL just added more and more functions to V2 without adressing the real issues like the inappropriate google web search in it, that brings up anything but the stuff you're really looking for and takes so much loinger that the excellent V1 search.

V2 needs a completely new GUI, and the Firestorm developers are giving an excellent example that a V2 codebase GUI can inded be useable.

I will not use LL V2 as daily viewer, I will stick with a V1.x based viewer ( SIngularity or Phoenix) till the last second I can use it and switch to Firestorm ( or maybe Kokua once it's ready) when V1 based viewers will not be useable anymore.

A new V2 poll wouild indeed be a good idea, but please not here, but as a general poll for every resident linked to on login in SL and with publically visible results.

Jeannie

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I just don't like how the local chat doesn't join the conversations tab and takes up a lot of screen real estate which makes everything look cluttered. Which makes the viewer 1.x's superior for socializing. Other than that Viewer 2.x has come a long way.

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The way text communications are handled in v2 is a mess and a major stumbling block for me. Separate local, IMs, notifications, the silly toasts with the tiny icons, the flashing indicators. Yuck and no thanks. Give me the 1.x console style chat. At least give advanced users an option.

On the subject of options how about making that space hogging sidebar completely optional as well? That way those who love it can have it while those of us who hate it can get rid of it. For some reason the powers that be at the Lab seem totally unwilling to consider that the sidebar is a major showstopper for many people.

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if V2 ever becomes usable, then I might go back to it.  It has so many bad design issues that i do not know where to begin.. and it's all been said before anyhow.   :P      For now,  I use Imprudence or (occasionally) Phoenix.  either of which is tolerable. 

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I still find a number of things problematic, but it has improved (particularly stability, as the initial Viewer2.0 crashed a lot for me).  I do like a lot of the features, and as a slow adopter, I am still learning to make full use of these.

 

I think that the feature I most need in Viewer2 (and the only "make or break" feature for me at the moment), is the patch made by Sione, that allows an end user to detect (and choose to block) attempts to target media streams at them.  Without this feature, I am forced to turn off media features if I want to have control over my privacy and real life data (such as IP), while using SL.

 

A setting that allows me to choose to block cookies from anyone but Secondlife/Linden Lab would be good too, so I can use search and retain control over my privacy.

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Well, I hated V2 when it came out, as I saw right away that many people would not be able to use it. I stuck with it tho, cause i knew that clinging to the v1.23 was wrong, and I wanted to help make v2 better. Many of the fixes have been great, and much appreciated.

Here is the problem tho, and I saw this from the beginning. In v1.23, every1 had their own way of setting up their screen. Every person used a unique window configuration to suit whatever they loved to do. Event creators and hostesses needed a certain set of windows open, and builders had a set up that was unique to their uses. Today, this is still not possible. We have more windows than ever, and we still have that sidebar, which completely ruins any attempt at having a custom window configuration.

In v1.23, I could be building, chatting, IMing, with my mini map, my stats window, and all my 6 huds on, and still be able to tell when some1 new walked up. In V2, It is a constant exercise of moving windows, and finding open areas to put a window. IMHO, it is 2 communication windows(chat, IM) and the fixed sidebar that causes all these problems. Sure, you can detach the sidebar, but it won't open that way. Plus even if you did go thru the extra clicks all the time, you'd be moving that mouse all over the screen constantly. The sidebar is a headache still and should open when I want it, where I want it.

Ok, now that I've explained how I feel, I must state the reality of my situation. I can't log into V2, and have not been able to since last month, no matter what I do. A number of people I know are having the exact same issue and LL does not even seem to know that this issue exists. Any jiras on the issue are being blown off. So, I have to use Kirsten's S(20) build 40, or v1.23. Kinda hard to keep creating when I can't even use 1 viewer for everything, but jump from 1 to the only other 1 that works to finish a job.

Sorry, but I have no hope at all that we will ever get our custom window configuration back, as LL does not see this as a problem. Now, with my current issues and not seeing LL able to recognize the current issue and blowing off jiras, I am quite disheartened.

The good thing is, SL survives because of the people, not LL.

Oh, and if you ask me, LL should hire the maker of Kirsten's viewer, pay him a buttload of money, and put him in complete control of the viewer. He makes a beautiful viewer and is usually 3 steps ahead of LL. Too bad he has to use LL's code base instead of him haveing control over it. Just my opinion tho.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Ok, now that I've explained how I feel, I must state the reality of my situation. I can't log into V2, and have not been able to since last month, no matter what I do. A number of people I know are having the exact same issue and LL does not even seem to know that this issue exists. Any jiras on the issue are being blown off.

Do you have the JIRA number that refers to this?

 

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Right back at the beginning I hated V2 and I still think it was released way too prematurely - that really shot it in the foot because so many people had bad experiences with it back then they have refused to even try it again.

I love V2.5 - especially with Hitomi's Starlight skin (I can't praise that enough). For me now trying to use any of the V1 based viewers is like stepping back in time - like trying to use an old word processor as opposed to a computer.

However I do think resistance will continue because once people make their minds up about something it's hard for them to change. It doesn't help that there's so many people still bashing it without having given it a fair trial of course (no - an hour or so is not a fair trial in my opinion - give it a few weeks - deffo 12 -15 hours at least of regular usage) I like TPVs too as they have the ability to cater for things that some people like (bouncing boobs come to mind).

All in all unless one of the TPVs come up with a totally fabulous V2 viewer I can't see myself changing from V2.5 (and so on) for the moment. But one never knows what lies ahead - I believe blind loyalty to any piece of software is a bit... err... silly.:smileytongue:

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Without a doubt, LL released Viewer 2 prematurely, and thus gave many who tried it a very bad feeling about it. I tried it 3 different times last year and gave it a serious go, each and every time. For me, the problem with Viewer 2.x is the basic foundation, the basic design to its core. It is simply a very badly designed Viewer, and to make it usable, for me, would be to have is scrapped and redesigned from the ground up. After 3 times, and being completely disgusted with it each time, I won't try it again. I would prefer to leave SL than have to use Viewer 2.x - and that is how strongly I feel about it.

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