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JB Kraft

Ban Lines

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Hi SL, been a while. So, just kinda thinkin out loud here but why the hell to these ban lines around property still exist? They solve nothing but to make SL harder to navigate. Who give a flying F if someone sits on your prim? I mean really!  Are you that strung out? So maybe you are there and maybe some griefer shows up and then you TP them into nowhere with a security orb, cool. But why the hell can't I navigate the waterways without running into your stupid ban line? You are an idiot and I want to hate you so hard. I'm just trying to drive my boat around. I don't give a crap about your super sex bed or funky couch sits. I just wanna cruise around. But there you are with your paranoid, 'i-am-an-idiot' ban lines and my boat stops and I have to get up and it de-rezzes and my trip is toast. I hate you!! LL, make this go away ffs. It is so stupid it is beyond beilief.

Anyway, Hi anyone that remembers me. I'm back :)

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If it's been a while since you've visited, you may not know how vanishingly unlikely it is that any Linden would ever stumble upon a post in this forum.

Not saying it would matter if they did. However nonsensical, banlines create an illusion of control that some landowners value, and Second Life revenue is all about land. Trust me on this. LL makes a small profit on moneychanging and might or might not make a little on Marketplace sales -- probably not, once they've paid hosting costs and Brooke's salary -- so it's all about Land, and so they can ill afford to lose those landowners who like to pretend banlines give them dominion over their little virtual realms.

I believe there are HUDs that help you navigate around access-restricted parcels. In fact, I think some TPVs try to do that, too. Those might help.

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Contrary to what you think, you are not entitled to go on land or water someone owns that doesn't want you on it.  They pay for it not you.  Ban lines are a fact of SL and it's not going to change.  I don't use them myself, but I accept the right for landowners to use them.  I fail to see the difference between them and getting TP'd home by a security orb.  Either way your boating ends.

As Qie said there are HUDs you can get to show you where they are so you can avoid them.  Here is the one I use when I sail and it works very well.

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I have tried using the hud but it has normally broke on a sim crossing by the time you need it. A more useful tool is to r-click on your mini-map in firestorm and turn on parcel borders, that way you can see the narrow linden waterways that you can often use to get past an otherwise blocked sim.

I don't buy your argument, Qie. Land prices are higher next to water for a reason, the reason being access to the waterways to get around. No object entry on parcels and no warning security orbs covering water that looks like it is a public waterway spoil and devalue the land value for every landowner on that stretch of water. Areas of Sansara and Gaeta V are especially bad.

I agree I can't see Linden Labs doing much about it, but they should and I hope they get it right in their plans for the new platform.

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Haha, indeed. I was more venting than anything. Don't expect LL has changed much in that regard.

And yeah, hud and mini-maps and all that but I have a real boat and I can drive it where ever it's wet. Just bugs me that I get stuck in some jokers nonsensical notion of privavcy in a virtual land for no reason. I can drive on your front lawn too IRL if I am so inclined. Ban lines are the dumbest thing in SL afaic and they just wreck the place. Sad to see they still exist.

On a happy note, this whole mesh thing is very cool :)

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You can't really blame people for putting up banlines on their property. They pay good money to have their own little p[iece of land in SL where they can do what they please without being disturbed. Imagine having a nice swim in your little piece of heaven and all of a sudden a speedboat comes racing in disturbing your relaxing swim.

 

I do understand your frustration and it's a shame mainland came to be the way it is today. LL should have protected the infrastructure of mainland better from the start. keeping waterways and roads open and contigious for the public. This would give SL a lot more appeal for the vehicle enthousiasts. I would love to be able to drive everywhere on mainland instead of always teleporting. Also it would be great if every sea would be sailable. I'd probably sell my land, buy a boat and spend the rest of my SL life exploring and sailing from sim to sim. :)  

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I had an idea  which I thought was rather nifty and that would be to make it against TOS for anyone to block someone else living in the same region..with security orbs ban lines or anything else....I think its hardly fair to prevent anyone moving across their own home region.....

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Too, some land owners aren't familiar with what some of the options you have in the about land actually do. They may not realize that when they check group only access, ban lines go up because the owner doesn't see them. I've seen that a time or two. You can always try dropping a NICE notecard to the land owner, something like ...Hi, I was trying to sail through the waterway that borders your property today. I don't know if you know but when you check group only access on the about land, you create lines that no one else can cross. By the way, you place is really nice......then sign it. You get more bees with honey than vinegar.

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JB Kraft wrote:

...

I can drive on your front lawn too IRL if I am so inclined.
 

...

I'm still not sure what on Earth this has to do with your argument for access in SL, or even how you'd justify the statement.

eta: unless you are literally directing that statement only to Qie, you know him in RL, have permission to drive on his lawn and live close enough to make it practical.

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If you pay for the land, you get to put up banlines if you want. And that is a good thing! If you have a parcel somewhere that doesn't make the whole region yours to wander around. I have my banlines up and I'll keep em up too :)

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Maelstrom Janus wrote:

I had an idea  which I thought was rather nifty and that would be to make it against TOS for anyone to block someone else living in the same region..with security orbs ban lines or anything else....I think its hardly fair to prevent anyone moving across their own home region.....

So, if we both live on the same SIM you should have access to my parcel? What twisted sense is that?

Get-off-my-lawn.jpg

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I think, as it's turned out, it would have been better if whitelist access restrictions were disabled for the entire Mainland estate. Landowners who want to restrict access to their parcels would be able to shop for land on whichever private estates chose to offer it, and let the invisible hand sort it out.

Too late for that now, of course.

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Having run into the same problem on numerous occasions, both sailing and flying, I think a better question would be: Why doesn't SL put protected waterway regions completely around all the continents?  

And while they're at it: Why not a single region wide protected waterway between all the continents?   This would greatly enhance the sailing/flying experience in SL for everyone.  They could even allow sky boxes above 300 meters and generate some revenue to help defray the costs.  

Then I answer myself.  Because that would make too much sense.   And take resources away from their development of the "New Improved SL" they have up their sleeve to screw us out of our inventory and force us all to start over.

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Lori Paramour wrote:

Having run into the same problem on numerous occasions, both sailing and flying, I think a better question would be:
Why doesn't SL put protected waterway regions completely around all the continents?  

And while they're at it:
Why not a single region wide protected waterway between all the continents?
  This would greatly enhance the sailing/flying experience in SL for everyone.  They could even allow sky boxes above 300 meters and generate some revenue to help defray the costs.  

Then I answer myself.  Because that would make too much sense.   And take resources away from their development of the
"New Improved SL"
they have up their sleeve to screw us out of our inventory and force us all to start over.

Rivers too... boating around Butsu would be wonderful if it wasn't for some of the anti-social land owners.

Butsu2.png

They spoil the area with banlines not just for explorers but for all their neighbours too.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Maelstrom Janus wrote:

I had an idea  which I thought was rather nifty and that would be to make it against TOS for anyone to block someone else living in the same region..with security orbs ban lines or anything else....I think its hardly fair to prevent anyone moving across their own home region.....

So, if we both live on the same SIM you should have access to my parcel? What twisted sense is that?

Get-off-my-lawn.jpg


Most countries have laws protecting rights to roam. Even in the USA there is a general right to roam foreshore to high or low watermarks depending on states.

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The worst thing about ban-lines is their sheer uselessness for the desired purpose.

Banlines only go up somewhere around or a little less than 100m above the ground. A good number of people who use them... use them to keep people out of their skyboxes...

- In other words... they use them for something they don't do. Like buying Ice Cream to fuel your Car... It doesn't even work, and just makes a mess of things...

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


Maelstrom Janus wrote:

I had an idea  which I thought was rather nifty and that would be to make it against TOS for anyone to block someone else living in the same region..with security orbs ban lines or anything else....I think its hardly fair to prevent anyone moving across their own home region.....

So, if we both live on the same SIM you should have access to my parcel? What twisted sense is that?

 

I'm not one to agree with Drake often but yeah... Just imagine if the two of us were neighbors on the same sim... I suspect we'd have mutual banlines, orbs, and breedable pets attacking each other...

Maelstrom's rule would only be viable if it came with a rule that let the first person to buy land in a sim decide who else gets to live there... and that of course would cause ALL KINDS of other problems...

 

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Amie Kaestner wrote:

I can't get past ban lines, but I did find out how to get into locked houses. Hurr, I so smart.

That's why I use a security orb inside a locked house.

Because that way - I only zap the people who intentionally were rude. And not the folks just passing by or touring SL.

As for banlines - just fly up about 150m, go over the parcel, and turn off flight. Its a trampoline. If your AO has good falling animations, you can even do summersaults.

 

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Just to clarify for anyone who reads this thread:

"Maximum ban line height for "no entry" or "pay to access" (in other words, "allow public access" is turned off in the parcel options) is the parcel's ground elevation plus 50 meters. If a user is explicitly banned by name, the height is the parcel's ground elevation plus 5000 meters. On current viewers this is visible to the full extent."

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Limits

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Lori Paramour wrote:

Having run into the same problem on numerous occasions, both sailing and flying, I think a better question would be:
Why doesn't SL put protected waterway regions completely around all the continents?  
...

AND Why did LL sell water lands that could block people from boating the waterways?  They should be owned by LL and open to the public to avoid all this controversy. 

It certainly isn't fair to landowners that happen to own land on these waterways to be denigrated by the OP and other's just because they exercise the rights of all other land owners in SL, especially considering the high price of land next to or on navigable water.  Why pay a fortune for land and then be expected to curtail you rights unless you CHOOSE to? 

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One option would be to cut the small swath of land that is in the water off from the rest. You can still set it to group and set it for group only rezzing and autoreturn but leave the group only access off on that small piece. You still get the benefit of the prims since it's still in the same sim but it would allow easy passage for those navigating the waters.....just a thought.

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

One option would be to cut the small swath of land that is in the water off from the rest. You can still set it to group and set it for group only rezzing and autoreturn but leave the group only access off on that small piece. You still get the benefit of the prims since it's still in the same sim but it would allow easy passage for those navigating the waters.....just a thought.

If people were thoughtful enough to do it but we know the responses people get when asking those who own these properties.

It was a mistake as Amethyst put it for LL to sell those water ways from the get go.

They should also be the ones w ho take responsibilty for fixing it but that's a pipe dream.

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I understand what you are saying and have suggested this myself to people.  Still you are asking people who pay a fortune for land to give part of it up for public use but still pay for it, which is great if they choose to, but if they don't want to they shouldn't be condemned by the people who want to boat.

Also, if they use all their prims, no one can bring a vehicle through anyway, so not only are they giving up part of their land to public use, but also a number of prims.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Bobbie Faulds wrote:

One option would be to cut the small swath of land that is in the water off from the rest. You can still set it to group and set it for group only rezzing and autoreturn but leave the group only access off on that small piece. You still get the benefit of the prims since it's still in the same sim but it would allow easy passage for those navigating the waters.....just a thought.

If people were thoughtful enough to do it but we know the responses people get when asking those who own these properties.

It was a mistake as Amethyst put it for LL to sell those water ways from the get go.

They should also be the ones w ho take responsibilty for fixing it but that's a pipe dream.

There are plenty of sims where there are narrow channels down the edge of the sim for navigating, having parcel lines on shows them and allows you to travel about twice as far around Gaeta V (for example) as you would otherwise be able to. The patchy nature of it might suggest Linden Lab have taken the opportunity to do that as situations arise. But making an offer to those land owners blocking access routes, would be a very good idea. And I would go further and say those that don't accept the offer should ultimately have the land taken from them for the public good, and their own benefit because it will increase the number of sims that can claim protected access to the blake sea (or on other continents simply to other sims) and increase the value of their land. If they don't care about waterways being made public then they might as well be on a private sim anyway. They can have their privacy, ban lines and swim in the sea without spoiling the value of their neighbours property.

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