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Performance Improvements

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Maybe for some it has improved but my SL has signigicantly gone to trash.  I have filed a ticket, to have it closed and basically told they can't fix it file a bug report.  I can't rez from my inventory, can't see mesh, well actually i stared at something for over an hour and it did finally appear.  I have done ALL the suggestions, reinstalls, yes i am on the LL viewer...nothing works.  I do not have the AMD beta driver.  I have updated my drivers.    My cable company  has reset my modem.  I have dumped my DNS cache.  Reinstalled i can't count how many times.   I am at a loss that they can call this an improvement.   I was told by tech there are no problems, which is rubbish, obviously people are having problems.  I have talked to people all over the grid having issues since the last restarts. 

 

oh and i am running windows 7 ultimate 64 bit with 18GB Tri Channel DDR3 SDRAM its insane i cant even rez to a Linden avatar now....

 

now i can add to this that it keeps crashing as it tries to load  - just great...glad its such a great upgrade for some

Problem Event Name: APPCRASH

Application Name: SecondLifeViewer.exe

Application Version: 3.7.19.33556

Application Timestamp: 5445731a

Fault Module Name: StackHash_dcf9

Fault Module Version: 6.1.7601.18247

Fault Module Timestamp: 521ea8e7

Exception Code: c0000374

Exception Offset: 000ce753

OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1

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Sorry, LL, you're living in your own universe somewhere outside of reality! lol In fact, though I hadn't planned to comment, I came back to do so after surfing sims toinight and having to stand around and wait, wait, wait for things to rez so I could even partially see them. I know your answer will be to use the official SL viewer. Well, make it better and I might. As it is, it's not worth the trouble. So, I realize you're very proud of what you think you've done out there, but until we see it in the field, so to speak, I can't comment positively.

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Since all these changes were made I am seeing grey absolutely everywhere, texture loading is extremely SLOW!!! This is with the latest official viewer which includes the new HTTP pipelining. The same also applies to world map textures, they aren't loading at all so I'm assuming these are delivered over HTTP also. 

I've had to turn off HTTP textures and revert back to good old fashioned UDP which seems a lot more reliable for me at the moment.

Is anyone else having a similar experience or is it just me?

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No not just you,

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Avatar-texture-problems-from-the-UK/td-p/2857126

I`ve seen the performance gains most of the time but I`ve seen 2  nights where http totally bugged out.

Thanks for the disable http tip though, it does fix the stalling in texture fetch.

Hopefully it`s just short term teething problems with CDN.

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 I believe the issue you are refering to is textures being discarded (unloaded behind you) (from your Vram) out of you view then you have to render them again (possible from the viewer cache?). Since I produce Machinima (or used to before the "improvements") I much prefer the option to raise the Texture Memory option passed 512 (available in Debug Settings in Alchemy) and turn of the discard behavior ( I beleieve there is a debug setting (or was) to disable it?). Years ago I used to get excellent smooth performance but since the advent of MESH that has gone right in the toilet with a GTX 780 and i7 cpu. I don't blame LL since Mesh apparently wasn't meant for clothing and the bad creator practices have made rendering these items very problematic for my particular uses of SL. ATM the new Alchemy with Pipeling is fast and seemed to rez most items in a very difficult testing area (GOL nightclub with 40+ avatars all Meshed Out). Also prim clothing would fal to render at populated events. One of my friends as a test she relogged and voila I could see all her clothing, hair and feet. So I guess  the person your are seeing (or not seeing) could have had a bad update to the server although it's odd other people would see her 100%. Granted I am testing at severe levels (40-100 avatars).

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You're right. So the change will only come from"customers" asking the creators if their items are optimised. Of course you need an educated buyer re: those issues which these forums and your Blog helps with. Do Fashion Blogs and designers emphasize this issue? It only benefits EVERYONE in the long and even short run.  Even an LL Server that only deals with optimised items must be far better off than one that is dealing with less efficient items?

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I went to test Alchemy at your SIM and things rezzed so quickly I didn't even anything rez. And fps was in the range of 90-130. Sitting in a chair looking at the bed 119 fps. 64m DD, 2x AA, AF and Shadows disabled. So I went back and with a cleared cache tried Firestorm and it was very laggy around 25 fps in comparison and even lower outside and things had to download. Tried the Black Dragon viewer which also has the Pipelining up date (FS does not) and got about 70 fps in the same situation.

 

Alchemy 3.7.19 (34077) (x64) Oct 27 2014 12:49:31 (Alchemy Beta)
Release Notes

You are at 166.2, 144.0, 20.2 in MacMorris located at sim10762.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.56.52:13000)
SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/MacMorris/166/144/20
(global coordinates 461,478.0, 306,064.0, 20.2)
Second Life Server 14.10.17.295641
Retrieving...

CPU: Intel® Core i7 CPU         930  @ 2.80GHz (2806.42 MHz)
Memory: 12280 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 670/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 9.18.0013.4052
OpenGL Version: 4.4.0

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.38.0 OpenSSL/1.0.1j zlib/1.2.8 WinIDN
J2C Decoder Version: OpenJPEG: 1.5.1
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.41
Font Renderer: FreeType 2.5.3
Qt Webkit Version: 4.8.6 (version number hard-coded)
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Built with MSVC version 180031010
Packets Lost: 82/40,261 (0.2%)

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I think it is awesome that you "LL" care to do something to improve the loading of mesh and things.. :-)

If you could somehow do the same to sim crossings that would be totally awesome.. Considering how bad sim crossings can be, even in very low Li objects, that are low scripted, wearing vertually no scripts at all, you can still end up in weird places or in Limbo land, and the only way to get back to sl is to relog...

Not all people hang around in clubs, there are actually manny manny peolpe riding mc, driving cars, flying, sailing and so and have to cross sims...

I don't know how to improve that, maybe if you are close to a simborder, the the next sim could preload you incase you cross over or something.. To my knolage the places where people fly, drive, sail and so on are not overcrouded places like clubs, so it can't be that much of a server load issue to preload a few people sometimes.. :-)

Well just an idea.. :-)

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Whirly Fizzle wrote:

I made a JIRA filter for all reports that appear to be CDN/Pipelining related which I'll keep up to date:

Quick note to let everyone know that we are finding concrete causes to the problems people are reporting.  The help we've been getting from the field has been very valuable.  Right now, we're focusing on areas where the most variability in the experience is found.  More to come...

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Is there a document somewhere that shows if/how lag/FPS is affected by texture resolution? I can understand how it takes time to download high resolution textures to local cache when arriving at a new place, but once that's happened, I expect the scene drawing time is dominated by something other than texture resolution. The existing textures are mip-mapped on download, so the renderer needn't work from anything of higher resolution than necessary to render the scene. My screen is 2560x1440, there's no need to draw more pixels into a sceen than that. A good rendering algorithm won't waste time drawing things that can't be seen.

But, the polygons in a scene must be redrawn for each camera or object movement, so my gut tells me that, unless the renderer is inefficient, polygon count should matter more than texture resolution. If the texture cache is being loaded with higher resolution submaps of the raw texture than are actually needed, that's not the creator's fault. I recall reading that a well designed mesh torus will have far fewer polygons than a prim torus. If that's true, we might expect mesh to help FPS, unless it's poorly done. Hopefully Land Impact encourages good design.

My personal guess is that old design decisions about the way SL should work are as responsible for poor performance as creators run wild. Not only have computers improved over the fifteen years of SL's existence, but our understanding of how to render computer imagery has as well.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

<snip>

Hopefully Land Impact encourages good design.

</snip>

 

Land Impact is encouraging good design because that is a measurement everyone knows and understands.  But primarily only for objects that are rezzed In World.  Because anyone owning or renting land has to deal with a "prim limit."  It hits you square in the nose.

Where the problems are really occuring as far as I see it are with worn meshes.  There is no accountablity and unless you go out of your way to look for it you don't see the avatar rendering weight.  Because I don't want to single anyone out I won't link it but I could point you to a current thread where a Merchant didn't understand that the fact it was costing a couple of hundred $L's to upload a mesh for clothes that it was a big indicator there was something seriously wrong with the mesh.  It had no optimization.

I'm really wondering if it should be mandatory for the ARW for a worn mesh to be stated on the MP.  Ever since I started watching this the average weights I have been seeing have gone up and not down.  And yet when I bring the issue up to Mesh creators it gets sloughed off.  (ETA, some, not all of them.  Some are responsive.)

At least in my opinion (yes I know it is just my opinon), the fact that,

"Render weight represents the amount of work your computer must do in order to display an object,"

is not being highlighted enough.

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

<snip>

Hopefully Land Impact encourages good design.

</snip>

 

Land Impact is encouraging good design because that is a measurement everyone knows and understands.  But primarily only for objects that are rezzed In World.  Because any one owning or renting land has to deal with a "prim limit."  It hits you square in the nose.

Where the problems are really occuring as far as I see it are with worn meshes.  There is no accountablity and unless you go out of your way to look for it you don't see the avatar rendering weight.  Because I don't want to single anyone out I won't link it but I could point you to a current thread where a Merchant didn't understand that the fact it was costing a couple of hundred $L's to upload a mesh for clothes that it was a big indicator there was something seriously wrong with the mesh.  It had no optimization.

I'm really wondering if it should be mandatory for the ARW for a worn mesh to be stated on the MP.  Ever since I
the average weights I have been seeing have gone up and not down.  And yet when I bring the issue up to Mesh creators it gets sloughed off.

At least in my opinion (yes I know it is just my opinon), 
that,

"Render weight represents the amount of work your computer must do in order to display an object,"

is not being highlighted enough.

 

This has always been an issue, and I'm surprised LL isn't addressing it. I wear more prims on my head than I'm allowed on my land. When my viewer bogs down in a crowded area, the first thing I do is decrease the non-imposter avatar limit to one (me).

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


 

This has always been an issue, and I'm surprised LL isn't addressing it. I wear more prims on my head than I'm allowed on my land. When my viewer bogs down in a crowded area, the first thing I do is decrease the non-imposter avatar limit to one (me).

You know things have gotten really bad when you have to derender yourself.  ;)

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


 

This has always been an issue, and I'm surprised LL isn't addressing it. I wear more prims on my head than I'm allowed on my land. When my viewer bogs down in a crowded area, the first thing I do is decrease the non-imposter avatar limit to one (me).

You know things have gotten really bad when you have to derender yourself. 
;)

You bet. I'm the only reason I'm here!

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Sadly I seem to be one for whoms things have deteriorated

Texture loading & sculpty loading can take 25 minutes - it is making work a total pain in the proverbial

 

it is very inconsistent  = sometimes it is all good

 

I am crashing as if I was in a demolition derby = often & hard

 

I seriously look forward to experiencing the improvements

 

Western Australia based

Mostly using Singularity

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I've yet to see any performance increase. I'm just about done wasting my money in sl. I have 2 premium accounts and land but i can barely do anything. Cant take I'm cant check land details cant move. The one only thing to improve for me is crashing. Over and over. I'm Just sick of it now. Drives me crazy. sl meant to be fun but all it does now is stress me out. Second life 2 isn't going to be any better when the first has never been right in how many years now. 11. Crazy.

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Botanical Rootcreeper wrote:

I've yet to see any performance increase. I'm just about done wasting my money in sl. I have 2 premium accounts and land but i can barely do anything. Cant take I'm cant check land details cant move. The one only thing to improve for me is crashing. Over and over. I'm Just sick of it now. Drives me crazy. sl meant to be fun but all it does now is stress me out. Second life 2 isn't going to be any better when the first has never been right in how many years now. 11. Crazy.

Land details not loading and "cant take IM" (Im guessing you mean you dont receive IMs sent to you or others dont receive IMs you send) can be caused by caps fail on that region. If this only started recently and only happens after logging in on a certain region, then that region needs to be restarted, which should fix it. If it is caps fail then anyone logging in on that region will have the same problem.

If you are having the land details and IM problem on all regions and only you have those problems on those regions, plus your hint that you are getting disconnected (cant move, keep "crashing") then the problem is very likely to be your connection or router.

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I've been having serious rendering issues with this since last Thursday, with intermittent problems in the few days prior.

 

  1. Texture and Mesh load EXTREMELY slow (if at all).
  2. Textures don't load properly, or the wrong texture is loading. Even saw instances of textures changing on an item when moving the camera. Not one of those random textures were correct for the object, either.
  3. Mesh stops loading completey. The physics/collision definition remains (can't walk through walls, even though you can't see them). Right-clicking (or any of the other "tricks") did nothing for the mesh objects that failed to load.

I was using the latest version of Firestorm 64-bit on Windows 7 when the problem first appeared. Since that time, I have tried a number of different viewers and discovered that they fall into two categories. The first being broken: the issues are more pronounced, making the viewer unusable. The second being satisfactory: the issues are not as frequent, but still does exist. In the "satisfactory" viewers, mesh loading is still an issue.

Broken Viewers (all latest versions): (<10% of mesh loads, terrible load times)

  • Firestorm (32-bit and 64-bit)
  • Catznip
  • CoolVL
  • Dolphin Viewer

Satisfactory Viewers (all latest versions): (>90% of mesh loads, improved load times)

  • Official Viewer
  • Marine Kelley's RLV Viewer
  • Black Dragon

The mosty working viewers all have release dates on or after October 30.

Below are links to two screen shots, one from Firestorm, the other from Black Dragon, to illustrate what I see in the broken vs. satisfactory viewers.

When comparing the two images, you will see a number of items that haven't rezzed in the broken picture. These are all mesh objects. What remains are prim or sculpts with an infrequent mesh object renderd. And note, even waiting for over an hour in the same spot does not cause the mesh to appear.

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The viewers that work better for you all have the HTTP pipelining.

On the Linden viewer, if you activate the Advanced menu in the top menu bar with CTRL+ALT+D, then Advanced -> Debug Settings -> HttpPipelining -> Set this to FALSE

Clear cache and relog. Remember you cleared cache so loading will be generally slow that first session, but on the Linden viewer with pipelining set to FALSE, is the behaviour then as bad as on the broken viewers like Firestorm?

Remember to set HttpPipelining back to TRUE once you have tested!

I have seen a lot of Firestorm users having this problem since CDN. They are better using a viewer with pipelining. The Pipelining viewer still fails to load some mesh and texture loading is slower then pre-CDN, but Pipelining does help them. I've been getting them to test on the Linden viewer with pipelining disabled and behaviour is then just as bad for them as it is on Firestorm and other non-pipelining viewers.

On the other hand, I have also seen people who have to disable pipelining on the Linden viewer to get back to pre-CDN behaviour (I'm affected by that problem).

Trasee, seeing as the Linden viewer is also failing to render some mesh for you its probably a good idea to file a JIRA issue and run a session on the Linden viewer where you have missing mesh and attach your logs files from that session.

You can file a Firestorm JIRA giving logs after running a bad session on Firestorm and I'll take a look.

I'm not sure we can do much to help with this problem on Firestorm though because its something that changed with CDN, which is out of our control.

Do you happen to be connected to SL over a cellular network?

 

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Thanks,

I will check both Firestorm and the LL official viewer later today and add the appropriate JIRAs.

I am running over Verizon's 4G LTE network (cellular). I'm one of the few that still have grandfathered unlimited data, which is good considering it is the only option I have for high speed internet where I live.

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Trasee Darkwatch wrote:

I am running over Verizon's 4G LTE network (cellular). I'm one of the few that still have grandfathered unlimited data, which is good considering it is the only option I have for high speed internet where I live.

Aha!

Yeah, I've been working with a Firestorm user with exactly the same symptoms as you and shes connecting over a cellular network.

LG Motion, Android Version 4.0.4 Baseband version M8960A-aaaanazm-1.0.09017, Kernel Version 3.0.8, Build Number IMM761, Software Version MS88020g, Model Number LG-MS770, Mobile Network Type LTE:14

Network - Metro PCS (though they merged with T-Mobile)

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Samsung Galaxy Note 3

SM-N900V

Android Version 4.4.2

Baseband Version: N900VVRUCNC4

Kernel Version: 3.4.0 dpi@SWDD5020 #1

Build Number: KOT49H.N900VVRUCNC4

Hardware Version: N900V.07

Security Software Version: MDF v1.0 Release 2

Network: Verizon Wireless

Mobile Network Type: LTE

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