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Alexios Donardson

when will LL remove viewer 1.23.5?

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Probably when Mesh goes live, since Mesh will make the non-Mesh viewers pretty much impossible to use, once it gets into common use. And they refuse to back-port Mesh or any other enhancements to 1.23.5.

Personally, when they kill 1.23.5, I'll be evaluating any third party viewer before I even consider 2.x from LL. Still WAY too many issues with 2.x, as LL is shipping it, and there's a few TPV's that haven't crippled their UI by adopting the 2.x UI, and yet have backported the actual new features from 2.x. like avatar alpha layers, and soon, mesh.

2.x still takes more mouse clicks and time to do common tasks, and still makes things like looking at multiple profiles at once completely impossible. It's fine, I suppose, if you never multitask, and use Voice instead of Text chat. It's still inferior if you multitask or use text chat for more than one-liner responses.

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Probably when Mesh goes live, since Mesh will make the non-Mesh viewers pretty much impossible to use, once it gets into common use. And they refuse to back-port Mesh or any other enhancements to 1.23.5.

Personally, when they kill 1.23.5, I'll be evaluating any third party viewer before I even consider 2.x from LL. Still WAY too many issues with 2.x, as LL is shipping it, and there's a few TPV's that haven't crippled their UI by adopting the 2.x UI, and yet have backported the actual new features from 2.x. like avatar alpha layers, and soon, mesh.

2.x still takes more mouse clicks and time to do common tasks, and still makes things like looking at multiple profiles at once completely impossible. It's fine, I suppose, if you never multitask, and use Voice instead of Text chat. It's still inferior if you multitask or use text chat for more than one-liner responses.

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What Ceera said.  They may not go so far as disabling logins with older viewers, but mesh will not render without new code.  Not sure if any of the 1.23 based TPVs will be able to back-port mesh support.

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Don't be silly!  NOBODY, even the few TPV that are based on viewer-2 code, have released a Viewer 2 that is even fit for BETA - testing.  Mesh is too important to NOT include in a 1.23.5-based viewer, and yes, I know there is an announcement somewhere that says there will be no more development work done on the 1.23.5 viewers by LL.  I don't believe everything I read.....

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Alexios Donardson wrote:

 

does anyone have any clue when the 1.23.5 viewer be removed from the viewers directory and thus LL will disable logins with 1.23.5?

i think viewer 2.xx is very stable and better than some early releases and much better than viewer 1.xx.

Yes Viewer 2 is more stable now. As far as being better than Viewer 1, that is a matter of opinion. In some ways Viewer 2 is better (better bells and whistles for sure). However, I have tried Viewer 2 three times this year. The last time was very recent. In my opinion, overall, Viewer 2 is a piece of crap. If or when Viewer 2 is forced upon us, ... well, I won't make any absolute statements... but if I was looking for an excuse for leaving SL, such an event would be the one.

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Ceera.Murakami wrote:

 

2.x still takes more mouse clicks and time to do common tasks, and still makes things like looking at multiple profiles at once completely impossible.

Do you just like looking at several profiles at once for fun, or is it that you are trying to do something and v1 forced you to open multiple profiles to do it?

And yes I can guess what it is you want to do, I'm just trying to start a discussion about what it is you really want. I'm tired of hearing people say they can't do X in v2 when really they want to do Y. Such as building, the build floater is 99% identical between v1 & v2. What people really mean is the camera controls are bad in v2, or changing permissions on items is hard in v2, and so on. None of which has anything to do with building proper. So what is it that you really want?

/me expects to be ignored

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"does anyone have any clue when the 1.23.5 viewer be removed from the viewers directory and thus LL will disable logins with 1.23.5?"

no.

"i think viewer 2.xx is very stable and better than some early releases and much better than viewer 1.xx."

It's wonderful you think that.  It's equally wonderful that many people disagree.

Thus, correct answer is good thing both are available so everyone is happy - as opposed to one thing being crammed down peoples throats who don't want just one choice.   Hmmm, have a choice of one, or have multiple choice - it's a no brainer.

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leliel Mirihi wrote:

Do you just like looking at several profiles at once for fun, or is it that you are trying to do something and v1 forced you to open multiple profiles to do it?

Multiple open profiles will be returning to viewer 2.x, and when they do return it will be one of the changes that breaks 1.23. The profiles are being converted to a web system based on the old Avatars United. LL has not said when but it is coming. The new XMPP group chat system will be another incompatible change, and there are a few more.

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well i dont view multiple profiles, never had to do it, even with viewer 1.x.x

and i started this question, because i wanted some kind of idea when the viewer 1.x.x will be removed of the viewer support.

if i wanted to know what others want i would have asked something like this: what viewer do you want or what do you like in v2?

/me thinks, i wanted to ignore him/her, but i had a second thought.

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Cerise Sorbet wrote:

 

Multiple open profiles will be returning to viewer 2.x, and when they do return it will be one of the changes that breaks 1.23.

I know there are coming back, my point was that very few people open multiple profiles just because. Almost all the reasons people would do it were because of v1's poor UI. Who in their right mind would think dragging and dropping items one at a time on to a little box in a dozen profiles is a good idea?

Not that it matters tho, v2 already has alternatives for the two main uses of multiple profile floaters.

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Alexios Donardson wrote:

/me thinks, i wanted to ignore him/her, but i had a second thought.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, but v1 lovers never seem to answer these questions.

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Just shift or control click on the items, right click -> share and it will open up a people choser where you can select the people then hit share and you're done. The same thing works for teleporting multiple people.

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Alexios Donardson wrote:

 

does anyone have any clue when the 1.23.5 viewer be removed from the viewers directory and thus LL will disable logins with 1.23.5?

i think viewer 2.xx is very stable and better than some early releases and much better than viewer 1.xx.

LOL!!! I won't be using V2 or any TPV based on it's UI. If there are no 1.23 based UIs as TPVs, I will leave...not that anyone here gives a fook..seems that day is approaching quickly..enjoy your silly bells and whistles while SL dies a slow death with display names, lag on a prim, IP Addresss sniffing HUDS, automatic bannning devices that ban innocent people as bots/alts/copybots, vast paranoia about everything and everyone, voice morphing and legal children on the grid.

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I am very hopeful that they will never deprecate Viewer 1.23.5, well, at least until say, Viewer 1.27.6 is stable, bug free, and mesh enabled.

Off-topic, I was in a nighclub last night, and there were people named stuff like Buffy.StJohn Resident!! /Me smirks, scoffs, says: Well, if it is that much fun, have at it. *giggles* *smiles broadly* *winks*

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I have more than one proflie open when I:

>talk to a new person, reading their profile while I have several creator profiles open so I can later check out their shops

>check out someone's partner via profile link

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viewer 1.23.5 is what i started on in sl.its simple and easy to use.i experience far less lag when using that viewer.viewer 2 is way to complicated.its also much harder to use and get use to.im still using the 1,23.5 viewer.i prefer it to even pheonix or imprudence.they are both very nice viewers with greater options,however,its a bigger download.thus creating issues.

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Yes, I have found 1.23.5 one of the most efficient and the most fun viewer of the lot

And with it, I can add half a dozen specialized HUDs, without worrying about resources.

(Oh, I have to worry about AOs and contentions, but that's only normal.)

 

So, it is a shame that the 2.x version was not HUD add-on oriented.

(You know, have a special Add-on window or drop-down for just viewer options, mods, etc.)

To me, that scalar resizing of the screen to open the Inventory panel was not needed.

And we probably could have lived without excessive master folders for what we are wearing.

 

Usually, Change is Good but some changes are simply wasteful and destructive?

(I watched There.com hanging onto a new viewer like it would solve membership and other core problems, but it didn't.)

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LL is working hard at becoming 2nd rate.

viewer 2 is a horse made by committee.

they were once a promising cutting edge company but it's clear their sight exceeded their vision.

over the last few years they've desended into an adhoc approach.

but its not all bad, 3d web is still the wave of the furure. be it here or elsewhere.

personally i don't care who i give my money to so long as they give me my money's worth back.

i've been keeping an eye on alternatives like inworldz and open sim. they're not quite where sl is currently but eventually someone will do it right.

it seems like its only a matter of time before i move. frankly sl does not provide enough in return for the prices they charge.

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Just wanted to clear up some stuff, with a very simple download and paste into your viewer 2 program files all these become true....

You can get an inventory button on the bottom toolbar just like in 1.23

You can use a camera just like in 1.23

The window doesn't resize with the sidebar anymore.

Sidebar tabs can be made into floaters

The upload section is now right where it was in 1.23

Chat can be viewed in 1.23 form

The thick UI bars at the top and bottom can be shrunk.

UI now has a draw distance slider.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_Skins/Starlight

or if you just want to download a version with the Starlight Skin pre installed

http://catznip.com/blog/download/

(Once you run catznip you have to go to prefrences and change the skin to "StarLight" and restart it)

Floater Windows Screenshot

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/shadowfamicom/multiprofiles-1.jpg

 

It can still take some getting used to but in about a week it will be second nature and 1.23 viewers will look archaic

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Ceera.Murakami wrote:

 

2.x still takes more mouse clicks and time to do common tasks, and still makes things like looking at multiple profiles at once completely impossible.

 

Multiple Profile Floater Windows as well as friends and inventory

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/shadowfamicom/multiprofiles-1.jpg

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This might become quite sad, when LL shoots itself in the foot?

Like when they isolate and lose thousands of their non-English members by simply removing 1.23.5?

I have dealt with a lot of non-English groups, who will dedicate themselves to a version of the software.

(They are picking-up English and visually learning commands on the fly and when you mess with that, you will lose them, LL!

Plus, they are not like your spoiled American market, with the money for new hardware.

And as these bloated 2.x viewers over-fill their machines, they might be begging for a 1.23.5 resurrection?

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It will most likely be sooner than later. It's been almost a year now since 2.0 was launched.

 

MY advice is to swallow the pill and force yourself to get used to Viewer 2 now. I know it doesn't do some things as well as 1.23 but that's not the point. Sometime soon 1.23 is not going to work any more and no amount of kicking, screaming, holding your breath until you turn blue, "we will not go quietly into the night" speeches, or threats to leave SL forever is going to change that.

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Itazura Radio wrote:

 

It will most likely be sooner than later. It's been almost a year now since 2.0 was launched.

 

MY advice is to swallow the pill and force yourself to get used to Viewer 2 now. I know it doesn't do some things as well as 1.23 but that's not the point. Sometime soon 1.23 is not going to work any more and no amount of kicking, screaming, holding your breath until you turn blue, "we will not go quietly into the night" speeches, or threats to leave SL forever is going to change that.

 

Viewer 1.23.5 is extremely efficient and about as bullet-proofed as it gets for an ever changing 3d world.

Viewer 2.x is about as convoluted, confusing and error-prone as an enemy of SL would want.

And supporting or blindly accepting their 2.x mistake, is like working for the other-side, to me.

(Heck, I do a lot of utility and vehicle tests, and most of those tech-folks have absolutely no use for 2.x) 

 

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Whatever your opinion of 2.x or 1.23 the fact is they aren't developing for 1.23 anymore, so as soon as they have something in the server code that requires a updated client (mesh?) 1.23 and all the viewers based on it's code will go the way of the dinosaur overnight.

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