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Midnight Mania/Midnight Madness Boards are now against Skilled Gaming Policy?

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I'm curious if anyone else has had this 

Someone who had an MM board out in their store, got it returned by a Gov, and told that it was against the skilled gaming policy and that they've been wanred and not to use it.

Since MM boards don't require you to pay... but merely TP and slap a board = no skill required unless TPing to places requires alot of skill (LOL!) and by definition; according to LL... 

 

[What does Linden Lab consider a skill game?

“Skill Game” refers to any game: 1) whose outcome is determined by skill and is not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance; 2) requires or permits the payment of Linden Dollars to play; 3) provides a payout in Linden Dollars; and 4) is legally authorized by applicable United States and international law.]

How exactly is MM boards in violation?

 

 

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That's what I was saying too (along with a group of TONS of people) however this Gov cited the "Skilled Gaming Policy" to the resident who's board got returned...

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Sounds like the person needs to file a support ticket and include the name of the person that returned the board. There are some at LL that have no idea what a MM board is or how it functions. Personally, I'd file the support ticket or call support, if they have a premium account, and put the board back out.

I did file a support ticket myself for clarification since I use Lucky Chairs and I'm getting ready to put out MM boards.

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It's not the first example of someone at LL getting it totally wrong. There are some brainless idiots working there. In the other example that I know of, the person appealed and the appeal was upheld. In that case, the warning was official and sent by email, so the appeal process was available. In this case, it sounds like an unofficial warning, so there's no actual appeal process, and all that's left is a ticket.

If I were the person who's MM board was returned for that reason, I would not let it rest. I'd take it right to the top if I didn't get the decision reversed. And I wouldn't wait very long before I did it.

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I had previously sought clarification for this policy and how it affects my products (CasperVend Lucky Chair Expansion Pack, CasperVend Midnight Madness Expansion Pack, CasperVend Gacha Expansion Pack). I was assured that my products would be unaffected by this.

However, since this action shows that either a) something has changed, or b) the policy is not being clearly described to staff internally, I have asked for further policy clarification via support ticket.

~Casper

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It's brainless people working for LL. I don't know gatcha, but MM boards and lucky chairs definitely are not subject to the policy.

I cannot fathom how a Linden, and maybe more than just one, can get something so simple to understand so very wrong. The only thing I can think of is that someone ARed the MM board and a lazy Linden took it at face value, assuming the AR to me merited, without giving it a moment's actual thought. That does happen, incidentally.

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I personally would be EXTREAMLY Upset if i were to find out my gatchas were illegal in non gaming sims. Everytime a payment is made to them, a customer always gets a prize. I see gatchas more as a promotional object for my store.

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I'm not sure which case is being discussed because no specifics are given here.  But I am aware of one MM board that was returned/banned etc.. because you had to join a store group to play it, and the store group was a pay to join.  Therefore, you had to pay money out in order to play the MM board.

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Oh. I'd never heard of anything like that. My first thought, then, is that it's pay-to-play and it pays out in goods, which is quite different to the MM things that i've come across.

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MM Boards do require you to join their group in order to participate. If they were free to slap by anyone then it would be a fair game to everyone. Otherwise the 'payment' to slap is to have to add the group of the owner. Maybe this is part of something they are now saying is a violation?

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According to stated policy, even requiring payment to join a group would not be in violation:

How can I tell if the games of skill I have created or purchased are subject to and/or in violation of this policy?

If you have created a game of skill that requires or permits Linden Dollars to participate and provides a payout in Linden Dollars, you are subject to this policy.


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Last night, I was logged in and listening to the CasperTech-related chat. I have a premium account so I initiated a live chat with customer support, and as a result I know there's a ticket in Linden Labs' system regarding this issue. 

However, I was NOT the person visited by this Linden who mistakenly returned the MM board. But I still hope I will get some sort of official answer as I represent all CasperTech customers with a MM widget.  

I'll keep Casper posted at minimum. Fingers crossed, everyone. o.0

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Having to belong to a group that you pay to join to use the MM board wouldn't violate the Skilled Gaming policy. You pay to join the group for the group perks, such as free gifts (Like in the cases of WoW and 7 Deadly Skins you get a free skin every month as a member.) The MM board is a perk of being a group member, just like the monthly gifts and discounts you can get as a group member.

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The pay-in side doesn't matter anyway. It doesn't give out L$ and L$ is the only thing mentioned in the policy on the payout side. If it doesn't pay L$ out, it's not subject to the policy.

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

Sounds not quite right to me. MM boards aren't skilled gaming or gambling. No money changes hands. Same for the lucky boards/chairs.

There are two different types of "Mania" boards by the same maker which are often seen together. One is the standard "Midnight Mania" board which will give a prize to everyone on a list when a certain threshold of users is reached by midnight. The other is the "Mini Mania" board where a prize will be given randomly to one of a small number of people who click on the board - for example, it can be set to take 5 names and then randomly give the prize to one of those avatars once five names have been entered. If there's any type of entry fee then a Mini Mania board would be straight-up gambling.

We need more specifics about this situation. It's almost certain that this particular board was taken down because someone AR'ed it - I'm not aware of roving governance Lindens going through places on spec.

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Did they say traffic gaming or skilled gaming? Lindens have been known to remove lucky chairs and MM boards if they think someone is gaming traffic. That started back when they changed camping to only places that are not in search, but I haven't heard of it happening in a long time.

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

We need more specifics about this situation. It's almost certain that this particular board was taken down because someone AR'ed it - I'm not aware of roving governance Lindens going through places on spec.

Definitely need more and accurate details other than what the OP has written in order to make a constructive comment. Most on this thread assumed far too quickly that the parties involved and the object in question was innocent.

MM boards if free to slap and free to join a group to slap should not be a problem. My best guess is the MM board was in violation of the Wagering Policy and not the Skill Gaming Policy. It could have very well been that the board required you to be a group member in which you had to pay a fee to join. But here's the catch...MM boards need a certain number of slaps by the deadline for everyone to get the prize. This would mean that there is a chance to win and not win, which would make this a game of chance that you pay to play (if you had to pay to join the group), hence not legal based on the Wagering Policy. Again this is my best guess given the very vague description in the original post.

No one can really say more without additional information...

 

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The reason it was returned is the MM board was locked to group only and you had to pay to get into the group. Thus making it a pay to play game, falling under the gambling laws of the states in which you must report it as earned income. Not making this stuff up, look it up. If you have to pay in order to get a chance at winning something it falls under gambling laws. Want your MM boards to be left alone? Don't make them group locked if your group requires people to pay in order to get into it. 

Note, this also means that someone complained, or that your store had a Linden walking around it and found it that way, most likely that first one.

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It's not pay to play if the board is group only and you have to pay to join the group. No money is given out. It's a perk for being a member of the group along with group gifts, as stated before. That being said, there is on that I would be curious about. You pay in say 10L and get what's in the vendor. Then, when the number of players reaches the right number, the pot is paid  to one of the people that paid in...that one might be a  violation,

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

It's not pay to play if the board is group only and you have to pay to join the group. No money is given out. It's a perk for being a member of the group along with group gifts, as stated before. That being said, there is on that I would be curious about. You pay in say 10L and get what's in the vendor. Then, when the number of players reaches the right number, the pot is paid  to one of the people that paid in...that one might be a  violation,

I'm really not up to parsing the details of the wagering rules but I think the problem is the group membership fee is dealt with as an "entry fee" and the item (which not every one recieves)  as being "something of value."

The enforcement might be strict to keep people from using it as a work around.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Policy_Regarding_Wagering_in_Second_Life

(It's the wagering, not the gaming policy involved here and I'm refering to the MM boards, not group gifts here.  If Gifts that are only made availble to ALL Members violated the policies and law you could kiss the Gifts for Premium Members goodbye. )

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It's not an entry fee. Some groups have fees to join to keep out the spammers. Others give out lots of gifties..Like a free skin every month with WoW and 7Deadly Skins do or getting store discounts or credit if you wear your group tag. It's just another perk of membership.

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Cara Lionheart wrote:

.... the MM board was locked to group only and you had to pay to get into the group. Thus making it a pay to play game, falling under the gambling laws ... you have to pay in order to get a chance at winning something ...

Want your MM boards to be left alone?

 

this is true in some RL jurisdictions

to answer the question safely for Group Only paid membership boards. Change your board settings to always pay out at midnight to your group members regardless of how many slaps there are

the gift in the board is then a benefit for group members who actual come to your store and slap the board

+

edit to add:

if do want to make it a little bit more exciting then set the target quite low. Say 20 or 50. First 50 in today gets the benefit. If miss out then came back at midday or next midnight and try again

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