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WHY WON'T LL DO SOMETHING ABOUT LAND SCAMMERS!

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I am so tired of havign to break the bad news to people that they have been defrauded of their L$ by a land scammer. Luckily it doens't happen that often to us since we are super aggressive about making sure there is a big warning message in the covenant, and watching for every land purchase in which the tier is not paid. But still when even one slips by me because it took me a whole hour to jump on and ban the scammer, it breaks my heart to have to be the bearer of bad news to the less savvy land purchaser who did not heed all the warning signs.

What is worse is that these scammers often change their display name and profiles in an attempt to look like they are us, or work for us. And we have no way to protect against it. 

Every time we do something to try and prevent a future scam, they get smart, like a virus and change things up. We finally have had to resort to charging a full week of tier up front, though this makes things difficult for us and the land purchaser difficult for us in several ways. But we have had a few scammers still pull off a scam and rip people off on a land that has been paid for...I won't go into details how that was done, in case it gives ideas to scammers who havent figured that one out yet. IT is getting ridiculous. And all we can do is file abuse tickets and ban people.

But that does not get the girl who got scammed her $70 back. It does not even get the account suspended rapidly enough. The person in question for todays scam has been reported to the landowners mega ban list multiple times recently and I am sure also reported to LL. How many abuse tickets does it take to freeze an account???? 

No matter what we do there will always be clever scammers out there figuring out a new way to scam people. Buyers must beware and we all must be obiedient little residents and file Abuse Reports. But LINDEN LAB HAS TO DO SOMETHING TOO! There needs to be some kind of RAPID RESPONSE ticket to file in cases of fraud!! 

Do abuse reports even do anything? Certatinly didn't help fast enough in this case. Right now the scammers avatar is still online and actively scamming people as we speak....and what can anyone do about it? Nothing because LL doesn't respond fast enough. 

Second Life is a place where real world laws can't really reach. Linden Lab has to step up and be responsible for the world they created. They have to make it harder for criminals not easier. 

Come on!

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LL can't protect people from their own naivity or lack of thinking. How should they, in your opinion, prevent that someone has to do nothing more than altering their profile and displayname? There is no way to detact or track that in advance. So the only thing they can do is to react to an AR. And that will, as sad as it is always be afterwards.

And to be honest: You can't do more than to inform your renters on who is running your estate and who isn't. If someone still falls for it: Their fault. Some people have to learn it the hard way, if they walk through life without thinking twice.

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Do you understand what's going on here? I've re-read the OP several times, and unless it's the equivalent of scammers trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge to hayseeds, I can't figure out what's happening. I have the sense that it's something more sophisticated than that, but I don't know what. (And if it really would spread the bad behaviour to have it explained, then it's certainly not important that I understand. It's just that, without that explanation, it's difficult to see what the Lab could do differently -- or why other Estate owners apparently aren't having the problem.)

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This is the old scam whre somebody "buys" estate land from the viewer UI, doesn't pay the rent box, then "sells" it to someone else who isn't aware of how that estate works.

There are estate settngs to prevent parcel resale, and bot solutions that can allow sale only to someone who has paid a rent box. Leaving resale open simply isn't a good idea, unless you have 24/7 staffing to keep an eye on things.

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Thanks. I guess I'm trying to understand why any Estate owner would allow direct resale of parcels, especially if they aren't collecting tier up-front in the sales price.

(I'd wondered if maybe the problem was that of tenants reselling parcels when their tier comes due without mentioning that tier is in the covenant -- but it's hard to imagine how to protect folks who would fall for that, and it would rely on such a basic misunderstanding that I'm not sure it even qualifies as "fraud" exactly.)

I'm a creature of the Mainland, so I just don't know: Is it that Estate renters expect to get that resale ability for some reason?

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The biggest reason we allow land resell is to people can deed land to a group.

When you deed land to your group you are basically "reselling" the land From your Avi to your Group.

Lizard Howl

Segarra Estates Owner

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More to the point, a short primer on how to AVOID BEING SCAMMED on Estate land:

1. Buy land directly from the Estate Owner whenever possible.

2. If you aren't buying from the Estate Owner, IM the Estate Owner and verify that the terms of the sale are legitimate.

3. Know the going rate for land/prims.

4. Pay as little as possible up front.

Or to look at it yet another way, these are RED FLAGS that you are probably about to be SCAMMED:

1. The land seller isn't the Estate Owner or associated with the Estate Owner.

2. The land seller wants a large purchase price up front. (anything more than one week of tier)

3. The advertised tier price is less than half the going rate.

Please, educate yourself before buying Estate land and avoid being scammed.

I've also got a more detailed article on my website.

Hope that helps!

Lizard Howl

Segarra Estates Owner

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Lizard Howl wrote:

More to the point, a short primer on how to AVOID BEING SCAMMED on Estate land:

1. Buy land directly from the Estate Owner whenever possible.

2. If you aren't buying from the Estate Owner, IM the Estate Owner and verify that the terms of the sale are legitimate.

3. Know the going rate for land/prims.

4. Pay as little as possible up front.

Or to look at it yet another way, these are RED FLAGS that you are probably about to be SCAMMED:

1. The land seller isn't the Estate Owner or associated with the Estate Owner.

2. The land seller wants a large purchase price up front. (anything more than one week of tier)

3. The advertised tier price is less than half the going rate.

Please, educate yourself before buying Estate land and avoid being scammed.

I've also got a more detailed article
.

Hope that helps!

Lizard Howl

Segarra Estates Owner

I have to disagree.

Many estates allow a land owner to resell their parcel as a provision of their covenant.  If they don't they set the Region not to allow it.  So just because someone is selling their land does NOT make it a scam.

Land can be worth more than one weeks tier, especially when the estate is well run and in high demand and/or offers extra amenities such as water sims for sailing, lots of common areas for recreation etc..  Their is nothing wrong with selling land for a price that the market will bear.  Of course it is up to the consumer to research land prices for similiar offerings and make an informed decision on purchasing such land, just like you would in RL.  If they don't and pay more than they should, it is their own fault, NOT a scam as no one forced them to pay what they did.

You know this and I can only assume you are trying to eliminate some of your competition by posting false information leading uninformed people to believe a private owner reselling land, as allowed by the covenant, for a market price is a scam.

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The biggest reason we allow land resell is to people can deed land to a group.

Thanks. That's interesting. I might have guessed "Buy for Group" would suffice -- although maybe more labor-intensive for the Estate manager if group-ownership is decided after initial purchase.

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Qie Niangao wrote:


The biggest reason we allow land resell is to people can deed land to a group.

Thanks. That's interesting. I might have guessed "Buy for Group" would suffice -- although maybe more labor-intensive for the Estate manager if group-ownership is decided after initial purchase.

I'm trying to think what advantages deeding or buying Estate Land to a group would have versus setting it to group but am drawing a blank. 

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:


Lizard Howl wrote:

More to the point, a short primer on how to AVOID BEING SCAMMED on Estate land:

1. Buy land directly from the Estate Owner whenever possible.

2. If you aren't buying from the Estate Owner, IM the Estate Owner and verify that the terms of the sale are legitimate.

3. Know the going rate for land/prims.

4. Pay as little as possible up front.

Or to look at it yet another way, these are RED FLAGS that you are probably about to be SCAMMED:

1. The land seller isn't the Estate Owner or associated with the Estate Owner.

2. The land seller wants a large purchase price up front. (anything more than one week of tier)

3. The advertised tier price is less than half the going rate.

Please, educate yourself before buying Estate land and avoid being scammed.

I've also got a more detailed article
.

Hope that helps!

Lizard Howl

Segarra Estates Owner

...Many estates allow a land owner to resell their parcel as a provision of their covenant... it is up to the consumer to research land prices for similiar offerings and make an informed decision on purchasing such land, just like you would in RL.  If they don't and pay more than they should, it is their own fault, NOT a scam as no one forced them to pay what they did.

You know this and I can only assume you are trying to eliminate some of your competition by posting false information leading uninformed people to believe a private owner reselling land, as allowed by the covenant, for a market price is a scam.

For heaven's sake. 

Point #2 above should clear up any and all confusion for anyone attempting to buy land.

"2. If you aren't buying from the Estate Owner, IM the Estate Owner and verify that the terms of the sale are legitimate."

If you and your customers feel that your particular offering is worth a "purchase price" plus a legitimate tier rate I have no beef with that.

My concern is someone who buys land with a tier rate of X, and resells it for any L amount plus an advertised rate of 1/2 X to some unsuspecting bargain hunter.

In that case the original buyer is obviously running a SCAM, as the new land owner now has paid good L for land, thinks they have paid for a month in advance or whatever, and in actuality they are just a squatter who will be kicked out as soon as the Estate Owner catches on.

Therefore, I stand by my RED FLAG warnings. One of these on its own is a warning, all three together is a sure sign of a SCAM:

1. The land seller isn't the Estate Owner or associated with the Estate Owner.

2. The land seller wants a large purchase price up front. (anything more than one week of tier)

3. The advertised tier price is less than half the going rate.

 

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