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Heavenly Villa

PETITION - LINDEN LAB - MAKE LAND TIER CHEAPER

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I've been an SL resident in Second Life since 2008.  I have a home and a business here.  Over the years I have consistently heard that people wished land were cheaper in Second Life. It was one of the main reasons people closed their inworld store in the survey completed by Centre for Business Development in 2012.   Now I have heard new sims are even more expensive.

This maybe a completely barmy idea but I'm starting a petition for Linden Land to make land cheaper and look for alternative ways to make up the lost revenue.

I sincerely believe if land were cheaper it would increase resident retention, inworld sales of land, home and garden items etc.  

I'm wiling to start a petition blog if people think this is a good idea.  No Linden Lab may not listen or change their sim fees, but things wont change if people stand by and do nothing.

 

Please reply if you would support a petiton blog.  

Regards

Heavenly Villa

 

 

 

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I agree, Heavenly..  In this day and age, we all have a lot less to spend, and because we can't afford to be spending what we have, the way we'd love.. we just go without.. but if they made it possible to at least have  shot at it... then, people would come back in droves, and build their dreams.. which benefits all.

 

 

I would support a petition..

 

xx 

Addi

 

 

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I think there's no harm in starting the petition and letting LL know how people feel about this.

Everything I own is on mainland. I don't find it prohibitively expensive, but I do think there wouldn't be so much undeveloped or abandoned land lying around if the tier fees were more affordable. Lot of people settle with moving into a rental rather than buying and developing their own land. And some of this land is really cheap, under 1L$ per sqm. So I'm guessing it's not the actual land, but the tier fees that prevent more people from buying. I'm sure LL has a good rationale for the current tier fees, but maybe it's time they did a rethink.

Anyway, I would support the petition. Who wouldn't want a cut in prices? LOL

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I have been a resident of Secondlife since 2007 and am a content creator at the moment. I really... really.... agree with Heavenly!

If LL reduced the tier cost, so many old and new residents will buy land and either start a business or just play the game!!

At the end of the day.........we will all score INCLUDING LL.

More residents, more sales, more revenue.

One would think that LL would think SMART!!

Go Heavenly GO!! I support your Petition 100%

Katelyn

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I agree with you Heavenly. I think would be great if LL could re think a bit about this.

I think this is important for every residents but specially for the content creators as us cause we spend much money in uploads. fees to be in events, etc...that together the mainstores fees suposse that not always seems profitable to do business in SL. 

Regards

Hans

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I support 200 % that kind of ask : please Mr Alberg, consider the idea of making land tier cheaper.

An other idea would be to create intermediate standalone regions : 7500 prims for less 150 U$ (100 avatars)...

And in order to balance the income statement, you could increase the % taken on the fees and commissions on the MarketPlace. Or to pay a refund to merchants who have both a MarketPlace store and at least a sim.

Cheaper land = more land owners = more prims to set up = increased trade and investment = more creation = more articles on the MP and inworld...

Well I know that no one needs to explain you how it works ; I know it is difficult to find the right solution. But on the other hand this your job to find solutions :) Good luck !

Pierre Ceriano

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When everything is getting cheaper to buy (even though we now spend way more time buiding mesh). Why is land going up?  

When you think that servers and hard drives are faster, hold more deta and are a fraction of the cost they were 11 years ago when SL started.  You'd think the prices would actually be going down...

 

ya got my vote Heavenly! 

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It seems the Lab realizes they've got it somewhat wrong in Second Life, and are planning to adjust the balance between costs for Land and those for Content in the next-generation platform. In the years since Second Life was introduced, a kind of standard fee (30%) has emerged for digitally-distributed app-store content, so that seems to be what the market will bear. At the same time, the constant decline of sim populations and the emptying-out of Mainland shows that the Land fees in SL are simply too high. The resulting hollowing-out of SL is hurting content creators a lot more than would a higher "tax" on their Marketplace-delivered goods.

One problem with hiking Marketplace fees, however, is that in-world distribution can compete with Marketplace, so either they have to impose some direct fee on both Marketplace and in-world transactions (a mechanism they probably won't invest in developing for SL Classic), or the Marketplace fee would have to stay low enough to compete with in-world sales. That could be higher than the absurdly low 5% currently charged, but probably still much lower than the 30% standard.

Hence, in SL Classic, the Lab probably can't replace the Land-based revenue with enough Content fees to be able to really slash tiers. On the other hand, if they do nothing, the bleeding will continue, and they could lose the whole business before the new platform is profitable. The best I could suggest at this point would be to raise those Marketplace fees as much as they dare, trim a bit off Estate fees where they can (free OpenSpaces? something), and some kind of Mainland retention bonus that doesn't encourage existing landowners to tier-down.

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Like you, since I've begun in 2007, this has been a constant complaint.  Personally, if tier were cheaper, I would take on another sim/HS.

You have my signature :)

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thanks all who have replied so far .   I think you and others have made a relevant point - if land were cheaper residents would take on MORE land, maybe resulting in more revenue than what they would lose in decreasing the price in the first place.

However, if LLdid lower sim fees - it would also depend on whether estate owners were also willing to pass on that reduction in cost to residents who rent directly from them as well.  There is a risk some may not do this?

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Heavenly Villa wrote:

thanks all who have replied so far .   I think you and others have made a relevant point - if land were cheaper residents would take on MORE land, maybe resulting in more revenue than what they would lose in decreasing the price in the first place.

However, if LLdid lower sim fees - it would also depend on whether estate owners were also willing to pass on that reduction in cost to residents who rent directly from them as well.  There is a risk some may not do this?

More revenue is not the only issue.  A bigger one is profit margin.  I'm certain it is high though I don't think it is as obscene as some people claim.

There are more reasons that concurrency remains flat than just Land Prices and those are bigger issues.

The other question is how much would LL have to reduce tier to sell enough land to offset the lower margins.  What's the magic tipping point that enough people will say, "Yes I'll buy!"

I think Qie is right, they are between a rock and a hard place on this.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see lower Tier also.  But the question is, "Can it be done?"

I can't imagine that the number crunchers at LL haven't looked at this a hundred times over.  They do of course want to maximize profits.

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Consider this my vote as I have struggled with keeping land in SL based on the fees. Not every person is a content creator but some of  us do want to build or make a place to call home while in SL. 

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I have to emphatically agree. I share a "small" parcel with my SL wife. Its tiny. And for the tiny bit of land we share, its over 30 dollars a month. $30 neither of us can come up with easily. 

But beyond that, LL needs to seriously consider this petition. SL is far less populated than when i started just over 4 years ago. I have seen so many wonderful creators have to give up on their dream and close their inworld stores, SIMPLY because they cannot afford to keep paying land fees. With the economy in the gutter, people just do not have the extra money laying around to keep putting gas in the Linden's Ferraris.

Stop and consider this: Just like ANY economy, if the populous has more money, they will spend it. And wait, what? When people spend money, THEY make money? If people could actually afford more than a small chip of land, and not empty their wallets, well, guess what? They are going to buy that land, open their shop, and start making new creations. People will buy land, build their dream homes, and most likely spend hours dredging through the marketplace looking for just the right touches to finish out their home. People will be more likely to just 'go shopping' and buy stuff they want, just because they can afford it.

Even the Kings of old knew a happy kingdom is a prosperous kingdom. If you squeeze every gold piece out of the residents, they couldnt afford to buy meat from the butcher, or fabric from the tailor, or even milk and eggs from the farmers. Who in turn, then did not have money to do the same. And then, the kingdom turns into a bunch of penniless beggars, even the King.

Long story short: LL... stop and listen to the peasants, stop squeezing us for every dime so we can afford to spend money and breathe some life into this dying SL economy.

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I agree that lowering tier is likely to stimulate the SL economy, at least in the medium to long term.

However: given that LL is hiring 50 new people to develop "SL 2.0," I think it's highly unlikely that they're going to gamble with their primary revenue stream at this point.

I think we also have to realize that these are not new ideas to the Lab -- I'm pretty sure they have analyzed this from every possible angle countless times in efforts to increase profits and/or improve retention.

I do like the idea of introducing an "intermediate" region type, though. That might prove useful for a lot of merchants and organizations. However, I'm not sure it would do anything to solve the main headache, which is making land more affordable to private tenants.

I think the Lab might listen if we present creative alternatives and new ideas, but I fear a simple demand for lower tier is very unlikely to meet with much success.

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WTG Heavenly about time someone said something about this.  As creators, I would say 90% of the population is struggling to keep high quality items out there for our amazing customers.  However when you are working half the month just to pay LLs it does get a little dishearting.  I happily sign your petition, I think every creator on the grid should.  So many views, yet so few reply.  Come on people aren't you tired of tier you are paying when there are still so many out there with grandfathered sims of 195 instead of 295.  We are all working our butts off, we should all get the same fair prices.  Just saying ....

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You have my signature in this petition. I'd like to see it become somewhat more affordable than what it is now. Good luck, and YAy!! Heavenly for making such a smart move. Dont let the drama llamas bring you down

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hardware=money,  employes=money= bandwidth=money,  making a little bit of a profit,  keeps them in business.  right now they are trying to make another world FOR US.  yeah let's slash the tier, sure,  this world vanishes in about a month as the lab bleeds to death trying to maintain everything we currently have.    the new one never goes live.   

 

Those just the side effects.   sure sounds good people going  DROP THE TIER. but  in the end, they forget it's a company,  they have to pay for these things and then make a bit of a profit and then pay people.  buy new things,  make sure SL stays running.

 

but I'm biased,  I work in the IT field and see what happens to businesses that do what I mention.   it's to big of a gamble. 

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I too agree with you Heavenly that the tier fees need to be lowered.  For someone who doesn't own a full sim from LL's and they would like to buy one, they have to pay $1,000 us dollars just to set it up then $300.00 us dollars a month.  Who has that kind of money these days?  The price at LL's completion is MUCH lower for more prims.  Granted, the competition system isn't anywhere near what LL's has but the fact still remains people have other options for much cheaper. 

I myself would like to re-open a store in world but the land prices are just too expensive (and I own a land company).  One would have to be blind to not see the amount of merchants closing their in-world store and selling exclusively on Marketplace.  Why wouldn't they?  It's free to upload your items/pictures and you pay a small fee if you sell something.  It's a no brainer.  People aren't spending as much money lately in world.  I try to have some very competitive land prices (around $6550 a week for a full homestead) and it's getting harder and harder to even sell at that price. 

I know for a fact that some of the larger land companies get their sims for free and they sell them for LL's ..especially if a company has over 700 regions with LL's they get them free or at a very very discounted rate.  It's not fair for the smaller people such as myself that don't get those type of deals.  But, as someone mentioned, It's not going to do much good if the land tiers are lowered and the owners don't pass on that savings to their customers.  I know a few land companies (no names mentioned) that are getting free sims from LL's but they continue to charge over $7K a week for their homesteads. 

I honestly feel that if land prices were lowered LL's would see alot more people buying land.  The SL economy would bounce back and people would spend more.  But they HAVE to change the $1000 US dollars it requires to buy a sim.  You can't even own a homestead without owning a sim.  Again, who has that kind of money these days?  It's not fair that one should have to own a full region sim just to be able to own a homestead. 

I'll sign the petition

 

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I've been in SL 8 years and this has been a constant complaint.  LL has never lowered tier and I highly doubt they will now. 

If they lowered land prices, people MAY buy more content, but payments for content goes to the creators not LL, other than the small fee they charge for MP sales or the cash out fee when merchants cash out L's for RL money.  This would hardly make up for the hit their profits would take if there were a teir reduction reduction.

There is also no real evidence that people would buy more land or content, just people claiming they would when discussing tiers.  When land tiers are not being discussed, however a lot of  people are saying they won't buy much anymore since they probably won't be able to take it to the new grid.  You can't have it both ways.

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Yep, it's barmy - but count me in :) But if lower tier can't happen, I would like to see at the very least an island option that is in between the homestead size and the full region size. Those with growing businesses would like to have an option to have a private island (whether to "rent" or "buy") that has more prims than a homestead but less expensive than a full region. There's such a big difference between the two, like...something's missing.

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hi, thanks for your comments.   The point of this petition is NOT to have LL "slash" prices and the world disappears.  None of us want to see that.

 

What the petition is asking LL to do is REVIEW their prices, reduce them if possible but at teh same time provide suggestions for other means of them gathering revenue to make up for the loss in revenue from decreased sim prices.

From people who have spoken to me they have indicated that if land were cheaper they would purchase more or purchase some for the firs time.   So in fact a decrease in land prices may result in an increase in land sales and the loss of revenue may not be as dire as you seem to be predicting.

 

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