AR'ing something repeatedly - when does it become spam?

[Cinnamon Lohner]

Starchild Magic wrote:

I found an item that someone's selling in-world that violates the TOS. I've AR'ed it once already, and a couple of friends have reported it, too. I really want to file more AR's against it (it really is a disturbing item), but I don't want to cross the line into spamming the AR system. How many AR's can I file against the item before I'm spamming - is there a set number or guideline? What about using alts to file reports - helpful or likely to get me in trouble?

You ask a very good question because the guidelines are, if you believe it is abusive, then report it.  Yet if Linden reviews it and determines it is not a TOS violation, then you will never know that.  In that case I would imagine you become the boy that cried wolf if you AR it over and over and over.

How badly harmed are you by this object being sold??

--Cinn

[Cinnamon Lohner]

Starchild Magic wrote:

I found an item that someone's selling in-world that violates the TOS. I've AR'ed it once already, and a couple of friends have reported it, too. I really want to file more AR's against it (it really is a disturbing item), but I don't want to cross the line into spamming the AR system. How many AR's can I file against the item before I'm spamming - is there a set number or guideline? What about using alts to file reports - helpful or likely to get me in trouble?

You ask a very good question because the guidelines are, if you believe it is abusive, then report it.  Yet if Linden reviews it and determines it is not a TOS violation, then you will never know that.  In that case I would imagine you become the boy that cried wolf if you AR it over and over and over.

How badly harmed are you by this object being sold??

--Cinn

[Tolya Ugajin]

You're AR'ing an object?

Have you considered that LL maybe reviewed your AR and disagreed with you, finding it does not violate the TOS?

Once should be enough.  Chances are, it's been reviewed, found not to be a problem, and continuing to AR it is just wasting everyone's time.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I would think you would want to AR the owner of the object.  But to the question.  I would AR once and wait........give it a few days then AR again making reference to the first AR.  Beyond that you'd have to assume that your AR was found to be not something the abuse team thought worthy of action.  As for using alts.............I'd be careful with that tactic because LL does have access to who's who and what avatar belongs to the same person for the most part (yes there are ways to "disconnect" your alts from each other).  Being a thorn in their side when LL has made a decision might come back and bite you.  Getting your friends to AR is a good and legitimate way to maybe get a little action in your favor though.

[Starchild Magic]

The whole shop gives me the creeps, but there are only two particular items that are that are really reportable as violating the TOS (the issue is child avatars and sexual activity). Since it's just a couple of items in the shop, I don't feel right AR'ing the shop owner.

I just AR'ed the vendors today, so I don't imagine anyone at LL will even investigate until Monday.

Getting more friends together to AR them is a good idea. Using alts did seem like a bad idea, because I *know* LL would know it was me, me, me and me, lol.

[Simeon Beresford]

if an AR has not been responded to in a timely Manner  put in a ticket,

use the  selection Feedback

complaint about support.

... governance team.

give the details of when and where you filed the AR and ask for further action.

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

It's spam by the second AR.

AR based on TOS policy, not your own personal opinion.  It will be responded to at a moment's notice.

If your AR isn't being responded to... Assume you're wrong, mind your own business, and move on.

The grid WILL be a better place once vigilantes stop campaigning to remove all of everything from SL.

[Starchild Magic]

Imnotgoing Sideways wrote:

 

AR based on TOS policy, not your own personal opinion.

I understand that, and that's exactly why I'm not reporting every single item in the shop, only the items that are easily interpreted as sexual items for children.

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

I'll just say, if this item could be "easily interpreted" then it would have been taken care of upon the first report.  That's how it has always worked for me.

To further my general example; Some bloggers like to point out how "easily interpreted" I am as well... Only to support their own bias, usually based on made-up talking points in order to further an agenda.  That doesn't make it true.

Easy solution since you're trying to find something wrong with it: Live and let live and go somewhere else.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Starchild Magic wrote:

 

The whole shop gives me the creeps, but there are only two particular items that are that are really reportable as violating the TOS (the issue is child avatars and sexual activity). Since it's just a couple of items in the shop, I don't feel right AR'ing the shop owner.

I just AR'ed the vendors today, so I don't imagine anyone at LL will even investigate until Monday.

Getting more friends together to AR them is a good idea. Using alts did seem like a bad idea, because I *know* LL would know it was me, me, me and me, lol.

 

If the whole place gives you the creeps then why the heck do you go there?  You filed your AR and chances are the Abuse Report team did not see it your way..........move on.  Don't go there and you want be "offended" anymore.  Let your friends know your concerns if you wish and ask them to AR if you think it's necessary.........but no one is forcing you to go somewhere offensive.

 

And, as Immy pointed out, no one needs you to "clean up SL for them".

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

What frightens me is that she's going to campaign away against this "Evil" and eventually get it removed anyway.

Not because it's an actual violation.

Not because it breaks any rules, guidelines, or laws.

Only because whichever responding Linden would simply want the problem to go away.

 

But, what is the problem?  What is more harmful here?  A little knicknack that may offend a person or two?  Something that's one thing yet interpreted as another?  Or a vigilante out to AR whatever they don't like until it's gone?

[Linda Brynner]

Although SL tends to make the AR-processes feel complicated, they really are not. Of course they keep up that appearance since issues surely can be sensitive.

From what i understood from the live chat service is that SL does process AR's within 24 hours. This is also my inworld experience for many AR;s i have filed during my time in SL. On the moment i filed, a Linden came within a few minutes and acted. So if the AR is not addressed within a day or 2 at the most to your taste, it is pretty obvious that LL had decided different than you, really...

What the chat service also told me is that sometimes multiple AR's from others are required. LL does not consider that as spam, but as additional information to find patterns, the live chat service told me.

At the moment i'm offline,but IM me the location inworld and i'll check too.

[Shelby Silverspar]

you beat me to it~ if the shop offends you so much, stay out of it. you are not the slworld's moral police, you are only responsible for yourself.

[Trin Trevellion]

Starchild Magic wrote:

I understand that, and that's exactly why I'm not reporting every single item in the shop, only the items that are easily interpreted as sexual items for children.

Was your AR complete? Including a screenshot, the object of abuse and a detailed description? I don't think LL will care much about content what is not obviously illegal or veritably. There is a huge clash of culture here. Some people even think that anime avatars are pedophiliac and so on. I get kicked out from places already for being "only" 5' 9" (175 cm) tall. So, if you suspect this place (mall?) to be an insider tip for pedophiles, talk to the SL press. Like http://alphavilleherald.com. They are kinda out of topics anyway. But it makes me wonder if LL is careless. In our mainstream media, there was already a big drama about such activity in SL. Many people in my country still have a fucked-up opinion about SL because of that.

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

The Herald is no press.

[Trin Trevellion]

The Herald is no press.

SL press is no press. To make an appeal to real press would be kinda ridiculous, don't you think? Herald is a random example of people who like to write about unpleasing affairs in SL and who are well known for bothering the Lab with it. Now you say 'The Herald is no SL press.'. Okies :-) But make your banner bigger, I still don't get the point.

[wiked Anton]

i do AR's too, and when that doesnt work, i do a ticket on it. not only do i find that LL responds, but they usually respond quite quickly.(to my delight) and since you have had no action, i would suggest the LL doesnt see it your way and has chosen  not take action, so perhaps your line in the sand is a little more conservative that others. what do you call a child avatar anyway, since you have to be 18 to be in sl anyway. dont go to that shop , tell you friends not to go to that shop, sl usually sorts itself out in that way, as if they dont do enough business, they will go broke and close down......instead of worrying and visiting sites you DONT like, try enjoying and visiting sites you DO like, and enjoy your secondlife experience, LL will take care of those that break the TO's, this i know.

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Bloggers will find something bad to say about SL regardless of what's actually going on inworld.  Being "Always fairly unballanced" places the Herald somewhere along the lines of The Enquirer and The Onion in regards to content.  If they don't find something, they make it up.

I have been interviewed twice by Herald staff on different occasions.  Both times, they found no story and picked something else out.  Anyone else who calls themselves "SL press" is no better.

And, oh look... Seems as though the Herald has an article about an "SL Press" site shutting down.

Funny thing, the site cited in the article is probably left unread by anyone beyond SL.

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

So... What are we talking about here, anyway?  I'll make it easy with multiple choice:

1. Little boy winkies?
2. Dong shaped pacifiers?
3. My Little Buttplug™?
4. Racecar shaped sex bed?
5. "Free Candy" rape van?
6. Sex poseballs that cause 10-foot-tall avatrs to overlap?

I'm dreadfully curious.

[Starchild Magic]

An Open Collar harness.

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Leashing is not sex.  Leashing a child AV is not a violation of the TOS/CS.  You're going to need to campaign like crazy to get that to disappear.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3870/kidleash.jpg

[Mysty Saunders]

Yes, but leashig a child av with an RLV enabled device does seem a bit suspiscious to me..

[Sister007 Artful]

Could it possibly be something more like this (NSFW): http://www.extremerestraints.com/mens-harnesses_28/strict-leather-chest-harness_94.html

"Harness" does not necessarily mean 'child'. Or 'horse' for that matter.

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

RLV is not sex.  It's a method of client side scripting control.

In addition.  Open Collar scripts are modular.  We haven't been told what's included or what's been left out.

Being an open source system, it could be anything or nothing at all.

 

Problems:

1. Making too many assumptions.
2. Presuming something that is non sexual is actually sexual.
3. Reporting something as a problem and yielding non response.
4. Balking over said non-response in spite of possibly being wrong.
5. Campaigning and complaining about a lack of support due to misinformed vigilantism.
6. "I'm going to report this until it goes away because it violates MY sensibility of right and wrong."

Sorry... I'm not buying it.

 

As I've said before... She can probably start a campaign to have it removed anyway, but, in my eyes the Lindens have spoken.  They chose to ignore it and/or have found nothing in violation of the TOS.  Live and let live.  Move on.  Go about your daily life.  Quit looking for evil where there is none.

[Nefertiti Nefarious]

Starchild Magic wrote:

 

An Open Collar harness.

 

OMGWTFBBQ!!!!  We can't have that in SL!

http://www.tommiguard.com/

 

ADDING: I'm beta-testing an RLV-enabled product that has NOTHING to do with sex, but could be used with child AVs as well as adult ones. So AR me too.

 

Message was edited by: Nefertiti Nefarious

[Starchild Magic]

A gun can be used only against prim targets. But people generally buy guns to shoot other avatars with.

A cage or orbiter can be used strictly for role-play purposes in a role-play area. But who hasn't seen or heard about one of these things being used to harass people in a welcome area or sandbox?

An Open Collar scripted item can be used strictly to keep another avatar within a certain distance. But Open Collar was created as a bondage system for *adults* with the implication that it's for sexual purposes. (If this isn't true, then why is the Open Collar headquarters on an Adult-rated sim?)

I tried all of the options on the harness, and while some of the Open Collar features have indeed been disabled, the ones that remain (forcing the wearer into a whole range of sexual postures and locking the wearer to a particular spot are the two I found), are wide open to misuse. So it's a matter of trusting the person who buys the harness only to use it to keep the child avatar within a certain range. I realize it's very easy for the wearer to get around all of this. But it's still a thin line between coralling an active tyke, and ageplay, so why leave that possibility open?

Not to mention, the harness is full perm, so what's keeping anyone with a little editing experience to replace the modified script with an unaltered one? What's to keep someone from creating their own Open Collar for kids, I heard someone say? Nothing, except then their name would be listed as the creator and they'd be in a heap of trouble if they got caught.

If the Animations section weren't still enabled, it might be different. If Open Collar were the only option, it might be different. But using Open Collar to create a restraint for a child avatar, trusting that it will not be misused and turned into a bondage item, is a pretty poor way to handle it. (For the record, everyone I've talked to in-world was as shocked about it as I was.)

There are scripts that have only one purpose - keeping an avatar from walking too far away - with no sexual intent whatsoever, implied or otherwise. If the creator of the harness meant for it to be used only as a leash, they could have done their research and found such a script. But, in the creator's own words, "It (Open Collar) is the best script for a harness."

There's my case. Apparently, most people here disagree with me.