What the new SL will be about

Kelli May · July 25, 2014

"What the new SL will be about"

I'm guessing it will be about three years.

Vivienne Schell · July 25, 2014

"What the new SL will be all about"

There will be no "new SL".

There will be a "next generation" (whatever that is) platform which will run not only on PC´s but tablets and smartphones as well. There will be avatars and very little SL functionality and content will be usable. So far nothing Linden Lab announced indicates that this new platform is anywhere close to what Second Life is.

Drake1 Nightfire · July 25, 2014

Cathy Foil wrote:

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Cathy Foil wrote:

Oh I was just thinking about how they could improve voice for the new Virtual World LL is making.

I think LL should make built in Skype and Magic Jack for premium customers. LL could get an agreements from both companies that for a cut of a few dollars of the premium account income premium members could use the paid version of Skype and Magic Jack to call other residents inworld but also make phone calls to people in the real world. They just have to do it while logged inworld.

This might get a lot of people to become Premium Members just to get the added benefit of a subscription to Skype and Magic Jack.

LL already contracts voice out to another company for ALL accounts, not just premium. Why would they limit voice to only premium members in the new world? There are plenty of people that are not premium members but nevertheless spend more than premium members do paying LL directly for private estates, fees, commissions etc.

Sorry Amethyst I was in a hurry when I posted. I had to be someplace in RL so didn't have much time.

What I was thinking was Premium Members would be able to make phone calls to outside SL or be able to call into SL from say a smart phone. This would be a perk for being a Premium Member.

For those who have free accounts they could still use the Skype or Magic Jack feature to call other residents inside SL but not be able to call regular phone numbers outside SL. They could receive phone calls from outside SL from Skype or Magic Jack just not the other way around.

I am totally open to the idea of being able to make phone calls from inside SL to outside phone numbers for other types of accounts such as those who have purchased a sims or even to free accounts if they pay a monthly fee like they do for voice morphing now.

I just think it be a very good way to encourage people to become Premium Members. Probably be better than Premium Member only sandboxes.

You realize the unlimited calling plan for skype is $13.99 USD a month, right? Premium SL membership is $9.95 USD a month.. Why would Skype take a price cut for SL residents?

Drake1 Nightfire · July 25, 2014

Cathy Foil wrote:

I have a few more ideas I think could improve the new virtual world LL is building.

The biggest problem with SL is Lag in my opinion. Its probably the biggest reason why new residents retention rate is so low. So with this in mind LL has to find ways to discourage bad building practices and encourage good ones.

Here's what I would consider doing.

1. Cost of uploading textures would vary depending on size.

a.) Anything 128 X 128 pixels or 16,384 total pixels and under L$1 to upload.

b.) 256 x 256 pixels or 65,536 total pixels L$5 to upload.

c.) 512 x 512 pixels or 262,144 total pixels L$500 to upload.

d.) 1024 x 1024 pixels or 1,048,576 total pixels L$1,000 to upload.

e.) 2048 x 2048 pixels or 4,194,304 total pixels L$4,000 to upload.

f.) 4096 x 4096 pixels or 16,777,216 total pixels L$12,000 to upload.

Do you have any idea how bad skins would look at 128x128? or mesh? or anything but tiny prims? Also, your jumps don't make any mathematical sense... And you can't upload anything bigger 2048x2048.

This would encourage builders to use smaller less lag causing textures but still give residents the freedom to upload very large textures when really needed.

2. Limit the number of attachments and or scripts an avatar can wear to less than what is currently allowed in SL. Currently all it takes is a few heavily laden avatars to come into a sim to make the rest of the users experience come to a crawl.

You can do this yourself with a script checker... it will boot people that are over scripted.

3. Have a combined efficiency rating and aesthetics score per item sold on the MarketPlace and give those items with the best score be given preferential placement in search results. Efficiency ratings can be done by the server taking into accounts size of textures used, number of scripts and or LI. The aesthetics could be voted on by anyone who views the MarketPlace listing. This would reward the best content creators who balance the best efficiency or low LI with making the most attractive esthetically pleasing item possible.

That is entirely perspective. What you think looks good may not be what i think looks good. And basing it on LI is foolish, what if i have a sim sized space station? How much LI can i use before you say its too much? It would also be simple to gme that system just as easily as people do the ratings now.. just have your friends upvote your item.

They can't get the Marketplace to work properly now.. what makes you think their will even be a new one. I would bet they will just make a new section for the new platform.

Vivienne Schell · July 25, 2014

"I rather doubt that transfer of mesh will be useful, even if it is available at all. The internal data format will be different. We are led to expect that the acceptable format(s) for upload will be different. So even source files will need conversion. However, it is likely that measures used to restrict high-poly-abuse (currently just LI) will be quite different and require quite different optimisation. LOD behaviour and specification of collision behaviour will almost certainly be different. So mere conversion will be insufficient. The material system will almost certainly be quite different too. In particular the use of alpha channels of normal and specular maps is very unlikely to be transferable. While creators may be able to start with their existing mesh models, a lot of work may be required to make something useable in the new world."

Most probably, yes.

It´s clear that a blank environment without any working, initial content cannot be filled with appealing content within a few months or even a few years. And content is absolutely crucial. No consumer assets = no buy. But, even if there will be any kind of "upload" function, and Linden Lab gets the quality and Intellectual Property control right this time, it will take ages. Mesh uploads are up and running in Second Life since years, and neither the overall amount nor the quality is what one could call a "success" in artistic and business sense. Then the SL conception is based on total versatility. No one wants a sim looking exactly the same way as any other sim or an avatar styled in the same way as everyone else´s avatar looks like.

I doubt that Linden Lab top executives don´t know this. So, basically, if I were a conceptioner there, I´d direct the user experience to a few essential (money making and probably hype generating) activities. Where versatility and the sheer amount of content does not matter that much. Content creation would come to my mind next. Not as upload, but in-world primarily. Native formats, an easy to handle creation tool/suite, basical 3D structures (Lego like), WYSIWYG editors for applying basical functionality, avatar interactivity and so on. Linden Lab cannot afford to wait for another four years for the new app to take off. Waiting for the professional 3D studios/modellers or even kinda skilled amateurs to adopt any kind of low poly game modelling, "marketpace" circuit in a larger scale has been a proven failure for more than one reason.

Perrie Juran · July 25, 2014

Jacki Silverfall wrote:

I hope they will put a limit on how many alts you can have. Anything over a limit of say five, you get charged for. discouraging the unlimited supply for griefers and others. How many alts does one really need?

Throws in 2 cents.

Actually, technically, there are limits stated in the Official Policies.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alt_account_policies

However enforcement is difficult.

I've only heard of a couple of instances where people were told they would need to pay extra for extra accounts.

Medhue Simoni · July 25, 2014

Cathy Foil wrote:

There are two versions of Skype. The free version which you can only call other people who have Skype and a paid version where you can call normal phone numbers using Skype plus a number of other features the free version of Skype doesn't have.

Heck, today, I don't pay any cellular carriers. I just pay about $6/month for Skype. I work from home, and ALL of my business calls are through Skype, so I decided to drop my cellular coverage completely. I was pretty much using Skype almost exclusively as it was. If I'm out and about, and I can find a wifi signal, then I can make calls. Most places I go, wifi signals are plentiful. The only place that I goto where I can't get a signal is my son's softball games. Plus, I love the fact that I'm not paying those cell phone companies for their overpriced crap service. At home, I never have to hold a device to my ear, and it is much more clear and stable than any cell phone could ever be. The big added bonus to using Skype tho, is the ability to transfer files. Most companies I do work for today, don't even need to use Dropbox or anything else, as they can just use Skype, which everyone can have for free.

Medhue Simoni · July 25, 2014

Vivienne Schell wrote:

"I rather doubt that transfer of mesh will be useful, even if it is available at all. The internal data format will be different. We are led to expect that the acceptable format(s) for upload will be different. So even source files will need conversion. However, it is likely that measures used to restrict high-poly-abuse (currently just LI) will be quite different and require quite different optimisation. LOD behaviour and specification of collision behaviour will almost certainly be different. So mere conversion will be insufficient. The material system will almost certainly be quite different too. In particular the use of alpha channels of normal and specular maps is very unlikely to be transferable. While creators may be able to start with their existing mesh models, a lot of work may be required to make something useable in the new world."

Most probably, yes.

It´s clear that a blank environment without any working, initial content cannot be filled with appealing content within a few months or even a few years. And content is absolutely crucial. No consumer assets = no buy. But, even if there will be any kind of "upload" function, and Linden Lab gets the quality and Intellectual Property control right this time, it will take ages. Mesh uploads are up and running in Second Life since years, and neither the overall amount nor the quality is what one could call a "success" in artistic and business sense. Then the SL conception is based on total versatility. No one wants a sim looking exactly the same way as any other sim or an avatar styled in the same way as everyone else´s avatar looks like.

I doubt that Linden Lab top executives don´t know this. So, basically, if I were a conceptioner there, I´d direct the user experience to a few essential (money making and probably hype generating) activities. Where versatility and the sheer amount of content does not matter that much. Content creation would come to my mind next. Not as upload, but in-world primarily. Native formats, an easy to handle creation tool/suite, basical 3D structures (Lego like), WYSIWYG editors for applying basical functionality, avatar interactivity and so on. Linden Lab cannot afford to wait for another four years for the new app to take off. Waiting for the professional 3D studios/modellers or even kinda skilled amateurs to adopt any kind of low poly game modelling, "marketpace" circuit in a larger scale has been a proven failure for more than one reason.

I do not agree with anything stated here. Some of it, I have no clue what she is talking about.

Because there will be a beta period in development, creators will have plenty of time to get things ready, or at the very least get the process started. Currently, in SL, there are thousands of items uploaded every few minutes. Yes, you can't expect the New World to have millions of products in the first month, but give it 6 months and things will start to really take shape.

Another point to be made is that a new platform, that is compatible completely with other platforms, will gain creators because the products are compatible. So, for instance, if the New World uses FBX, or even multiple formats like Unity, then every Unity content creator will also be selling in this New World. That is just 1 example too. Their products are already done, and made for games. They would simply just upload them. Also, in Unity, you can just drop in blend files, which get converted to FBX automatically. LL would do good to make the New World as compatible with Blender as humanly possible.

Today, especially since the word came out, I've been concentrating most of my efforts on creating Unity products, as I'm pretty sure it won't take much to convert what I make over to the New World. This week, a regular client of mine asked me to make a specific snake for their game. They are using Unity as their game engine. Yeah, I could make them their snake, and charge them hundreds of dollars for it, but I decided to instead make 1 generic snake and morph him into any snake possible. The client is pleased with this because they have other snakes in mind for other parts of the game, and they will get a very cheap price, as I'll just sell the product to all Unity game developer instead of just 1. If the New World uses FBX with all the same features, then it's just another upload for me.

Cathy Foil · July 25, 2014

Drake you know this is all just theoretical right?

The OP started this topic which was just his ideas of what he thinks the new virtual world LL is building could be like it is all just theoretical.

I am just putting up ideas that would help LL keep down lag and performance issues. It is obvious that LL has not named the new virtual world Second Life 2.0 for a reason. It will have different rules and limitations set down by LL.

In my posting I trying to come up with ways for LL to encourage good building practices.

SL has a considerable amount of lag due to the high number of large size textures people use. Therefore making large textures more expensive to upload and smaller ones really cheap is one way to combat this.

I am not saying how I priced the textures in my examples would be the best prices for this purpose and I am totally open for suggestions.

As far as 128 x128 being bad for skin textures I agree with you but skin designers would still be free to upload higher resolution textures. I believe 512 x 512 is the maximum displayed skin texture for avatars. It gets resampled down if the texture was uploaded as 1024 x 1024. Also 2048 x 2048 was the maximum size for textures in SL years ago but LL lowered it to 1024 x 1024. This again is mute because we are talking hypothetically about the new virtual world LL is building and LL could decide to allow larger textures in it.

I for one would love larger textures in the new virtual world just as long as LL has some sort of limit on it and the only way I could think of to keep everyone from just uploading the very largest size was to make it really really expensive.

As far as script checker your talking about SL not the new virtual world. To keep lag down everywhere I believe LL needs to limit scripts in the new virtual world. Perhaps they won't even need to if they use a new scripting language or system.

Another way might be to give land owners some more built in controls such as the ability to automatically turn off all or most of the scripts an avatar is wearing before they materialize in the sim.

The MarketPlace is a tricky one. I sure hope LL doesn't just tack on new categories for the new virtual world. It would just add to the confusion. Rating by LI for a Space Station wouldn't be a problem because it would also be competing with other Space Stations who's LI would also be higher.

Yes one could get their friends to vote for their item but one vote per resident so overall I doubt they make much of an influence but you are right there will always be people who will try and game the system and steps need to be taken to help curb this. There will never be a perfect system.

Drake1 Nightfire · July 25, 2014