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Feldspar Millgrove

What the new SL will be about

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I predict that it will be all-mesh and optimized for VR immersion devices such as Oculus Rift.

Certainly there will be Voice.

There will be LSL (although only for mesh objects).

There will (eventually) be better support for more lifelike avatars (real-world faces).

Content that can be transported:  Mesh, Avatars, some Clothes, some scripts.

There will no longer be in-world Building at all.  Rezzing will be a slightly different concept.

Not clear if there will be "land", not clear if it will have the same Sim-server-as-place architecture.

http://betaboston.com/news/2014/07/24/the-virtual-reality-revolution-arrives-in-boston/

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Feldspar Millgrove wrote:

I predict that it will be all-mesh and optimized for VR immersion devices such as Oculus Rift.

SL has always been all mesh.  What do you mean by "optimized for VR immersion devices"?  How would this so-called optimized mesh be any different from other (presumably unoptimized) mesh?

 


Feldspar Millgrove wrote:

There will be LSL (although only for mesh objects).

Actually, there won't.  Ebbe has already stated that they'll will being using a different scripting language... they just haven't said which one yet.

 


Feldspar Millgrove wrote:

Content that can be transported:  Mesh, Avatars, some Clothes, some scripts.

No one really knows yet what will be transferable, sans our avatar names, $L balance, and friends list... as Ebbe stated that those three things definitely will.  Nothing else is guaranteed.

 


Feldspar Millgrove wrote:

There will no longer be in-world Building at all.  Rezzing will be a slightly different concept.

From wherever did you get this idea?

...Dres

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I rather doubt that transfer of mesh will be useful, even if it is available at all. The internal data format will be different. We are led to expect that the acceptable format(s) for upload will be different. So even source files will need conversion. However, it is likely that measures used to restrict high-poly-abuse (currently just LI) will be quite different and require quite different optimisation. LOD behaviour and specification of collision behaviour will almost certainly be different. So mere conversion will be insufficient. The material system will almost certainly be quite different too. In particular the use of alpha channels of normal and specular maps is very unlikely to be transferable. While creators may be able to start with their existing mesh models, a lot of work may be required to make something useable in the new world.

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I predict that it will be all-mesh and optimized for VR immersion devices such as Oculus Rift.

That's a given...with all the new technology coming out, eventually I think you'll only be able to use things like Occulus Rift and whatever other kind of VR tech that is available.

Certainly there will be Voice.

Or something like voice..probably more advanced. It'll sound more like talking on a cell phone than through a microphone in your computer.

There will be LSL (although only for mesh objects).

See Dres' answer above...

Content that can be transported:  Mesh, Avatars, some Clothes, some scripts.

No. Content will not be transported. It's already been stated that old clothes, hair, objects won't go over because they are too prim heavy. Nothing that you have now, aside from your name and money, will come over with you. We'll all show up naked like the Garden of Eden and have to start all over again.

There will no longer be in-world Building at all.  Rezzing will be a slightly different concept.Not clear if there will be "land", not clear if it will have the same Sim-server-as-place architecture.

I have no idea where you're getting this from. There will have to be inworld building...user created content is what makes SL what it is. Without that, what's the point? It's the whole reason for existance...are you planning on going to a blank world where you can't do anything but stand around, naked mind you, looking stupid???

 

 

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Oh I was just thinking about how they could improve voice for the new Virtual World LL is making.

I think LL should make built in Skype and Magic Jack for premium customers.  LL could get an agreements from both companies that for a cut of a few dollars of the premium account income premium members could use the paid version of Skype and Magic Jack to call other residents inworld but also make phone calls to people in the real world.   They just have to do it while logged inworld.

This might get a lot of people to become Premium Members just to get the added benefit of a subscription to Skype and Magic Jack. :D

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All building will be done outside the world using tools such as Blender.

There will be no in-world tool for creating parametric shapes.

It might also be that other users do not see any changes (i.e. rezzing an uploaded mesh) in real time; the system contains user-generated content, but it is more static than SL. This has implications for the architecture: what and when content is downloaded, how it is distributed on the grid (because a sim is not a place anymore), etc. The current architecture as you know is not performant.

 

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We already know it will not have LSL. Or at least LSL won't be the standard scripting language; I've speculated on the possibility of some very limited compatibility mode for some legacy LSL scripts, but many current functions probably won't have meaningful equivalents in the new platform, so current LSL would be largely useless there.


Feldspar Millgrove wrote:

Not clear if there will be "land", not clear if it will have the same Sim-server-as-place architecture.

Not sure what this means. If it just means that sharding might not correspond as tightly to the "geography" of the virtual world, yeah, that's possible, although it's no free lunch. If, on the other hand, you're suggesting that the new platform won't support a "geographic" virtual world, then it won't take up much of my time.

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Feldspar Millgrove wrote:

Reliability aside (!), isn't SL Voice better than Skype?  Skype is not 3D enabled.

Is it on perpetual mute then? If so, HECK YA it's better than Skype!

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Feldspar Millgrove wrote:

Reliability aside (!), isn't SL Voice better than Skype?  Skype is not 3D enabled.

As Dres said, neither is SL Voice, which in reality is just an external voice service (Vivox) that happens to be used by the viewer. And come to think of it, it kinda sucks, in terms of audio quality and reliability, as compared to Skype. So perhaps a good move by LL would be to change to a partnership with Skype instead of Vivox, for the future SL2; perhaps this way we'd have better voice, and maybe even integrated videoconference, live screen sharing, etc.

Other than that, I'm interested in seeing how this debate goes. Some of your ideas are at least intriguing, especially when measured against other forum member's objections so far.

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Cathy Foil wrote:

Oh I was just thinking about how they could improve voice for the new Virtual World LL is making.

I think LL should make built in Skype and Magic Jack for premium customers.  LL could get an agreements from both companies that for a cut of a few dollars of the premium account income premium members could use the paid version of Skype and Magic Jack to call other residents inworld but also make phone calls to people in the real world.   They just have to do it while logged inworld.

This might get a lot of people to become Premium Members just to get the added benefit of a subscription to Skype and Magic Jack.
:D

 

LL already contracts voice out to another company for ALL accounts, not just premium.   Why would they limit voice to only premium members in the new world?  There are plenty of people that are not premium members but nevertheless spend more than premium members do paying LL directly for private estates, fees, commissions etc. 

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Feldspar Millgrove wrote:

...

There will no longer be in-world Building at all.  Rezzing will be a slightly different concept.

Actually Ebbe Linden already has said there will be building tools in the new world, better than what we now have.

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:


Cathy Foil wrote:

Oh I was just thinking about how they could improve voice for the new Virtual World LL is making.

I think LL should make built in Skype and Magic Jack for premium customers.  LL could get an agreements from both companies that for a cut of a few dollars of the premium account income premium members could use the paid version of Skype and Magic Jack to call other residents inworld but also make phone calls to people in the real world.   They just have to do it while logged inworld.

This might get a lot of people to become Premium Members just to get the added benefit of a subscription to Skype and Magic Jack.
:D

 

LL already contracts voice out to another company for ALL accounts, not just premium.   Why would they limit voice to only premium members in the new world?  There are plenty of people that are not premium members but nevertheless spend more than premium members do paying LL directly for private estates, fees, commissions etc. 

Sorry Amethyst I was in a hurry when I posted.  I had to be someplace in RL so didn't have much time.

What I was thinking was Premium Members would be able to make phone calls  to outside SL or be able to call into SL from say a smart phone.  This would be a perk for being a Premium Member.

For those who have free accounts they could still use the Skype or Magic Jack feature to call other residents inside SL but not be able to call regular phone numbers outside SL.  They could receive phone calls from outside SL from Skype or Magic Jack just not the other way around.

I am totally open to the idea of being able to make phone calls from inside SL to outside phone numbers for other types of accounts such as those who have purchased a sims or even to free accounts if they pay a monthly fee like they do for voice morphing now.

I just think it be a very good way to encourage people to become Premium Members.  Probably be better than Premium Member only sandboxes.

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I have a few more ideas I think could improve the new virtual world LL is building.

The biggest problem with SL is Lag in my opinion.  Its probably the biggest reason why new residents retention rate is so low.  So with this in mind LL has to find ways to discourage bad building practices and encourage good ones.

Here's what I would consider doing.

1. Cost of uploading textures would vary depending on size.
    a.) Anything 128 X 128 pixels or 16,384 total pixels and under L$1 to upload.
    b.) 256 x 256 pixels or 65,536 total pixels L$5 to upload.
    c.) 512 x 512 pixels or 262,144 total pixels L$500 to upload.
    d.) 1024 x 1024 pixels or 1,048,576 total pixels L$1,000 to upload.
    e.) 2048 x 2048 pixels or 4,194,304 total pixels L$4,000 to upload.
     f.)  4096 x 4096 pixels or 16,777,216 total pixels L$12,000 to upload.

This would encourage builders to use smaller less lag causing textures but still give residents the freedom to upload very large textures when really needed.

2.  Limit the number of attachments and or scripts an avatar can wear to less than what is currently allowed in SL.  Currently all it takes is a few heavily laden avatars to come into a sim to make the rest of the users experience come to a crawl.

3. Have a combined efficiency rating and aesthetics score per item sold on the MarketPlace and give those items with the best score be given preferential placement in search results.  Efficiency ratings can be done by the server taking into accounts size of textures used, number of scripts and or LI.  The aesthetics could be voted on by anyone who views the MarketPlace listing.  This would reward the best content creators who balance the best efficiency or low LI with making the most attractive esthetically pleasing item possible.

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Cathy Foil wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:


Cathy Foil wrote:

Oh I was just thinking about how they could improve voice for the new Virtual World LL is making.

I think LL should make built in Skype and Magic Jack for premium customers.  LL could get an agreements from both companies that for a cut of a few dollars of the premium account income premium members could use the paid version of Skype and Magic Jack to call other residents inworld but also make phone calls to people in the real world.   They just have to do it while logged inworld.

This might get a lot of people to become Premium Members just to get the added benefit of a subscription to Skype and Magic Jack.
:D

 

LL already contracts voice out to another company for ALL accounts, not just premium.   Why would they limit voice to only premium members in the new world?  There are plenty of people that are not premium members but nevertheless spend more than premium members do paying LL directly for private estates, fees, commissions etc. 

Sorry Amethyst I was in a hurry when I posted.  I had to be someplace in RL so didn't have much time.

What I was thinking was Premium Members would be able to make phone calls  to outside SL or be able to call into SL from say a smart phone.  This would be a perk for being a Premium Member.

For those who have free accounts they could still use the Skype or Magic Jack feature to call other residents inside SL but not be able to call regular phone numbers outside SL.  They could receive phone calls from outside SL from Skype or Magic Jack just not the other way around.

I am totally open to the idea of being able to make phone calls from inside SL to outside phone numbers for other types of accounts such as those who have purchased a sims or even to free accounts if they pay a monthly fee like they do for voice morphing now.

I just think it be a very good way to encourage people to become Premium Members.  Probably be better than Premium Member only sandboxes.

LL used to offer that service several yeas ago but it was a major fail as very few signed up for it.

 I have a phone right on my desk and also I can already use skype when I'm logged in.  I know tons of people that use skype instead of voice too.  Not sure why you think it would be something that was really advantageos.  It might even increase lag.

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Feldspar Millgrove wrote:

Perhaps I was not clear:  there won't be any prims.

 

I would not bet on that.

A prim serves many purposes, besides building things out of them. Every single modeling program in the world has primitives. Just like in SL, a primitive is used as a container to hold things. In Blender, you would use a cube as the boundery for special effects, like fire, or water simulations. My point is, that primitives are an essential part of almost every single 3D platform there is. It would be dumb for LL not to include a set of primitives.

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Yes it is true that textures can make sl lag, infact anything makes sl lag if you use a cheap laptop that has onboard graphic card and crappy shared ram and was only meant to browse the web and edit a text document.
The only "lag" i see duo to textures is slow texture download and slow loading on busy sims, but that is not the computers fault.

A better solution for people who dont want to buy a decent computer would be some setting that only downloaded the lowest texture lod because the computer cant handle anything else, then people with a decent computer can still enjoy a great looking sl because of high quality textures.

Then some say "So unfair to say so because i can't afford a decent computer".. Well i guess not, because you had time to use thousind of hours to play sl that is your hobby and what you live a breathe for, therefore you ofcourse did not have time to study how to build your own cheap computer with good specfications instead of buying a crappy cheap laptop and complain all the time.

But let me tell you that i bought the cheapest new 4 core amd cpu on amazone, the almost cheapest graphic card i could find with 2gb ddr5 ram, really cheap motherboard and cheap 8gb ram and so on...
the computer i made is just as cheap as a crappy laptop, however it runs sl on the most busy sim at about 25fps with graphics at almost the highst level, shadows are turned off and so..
In other words, it works just fine, i dont have lag and it was cheap..

Sorry, but if people have so much time to play sl and they really enjoy it, then why not use just a fraction of the time to study how to make a cheap computer and get a lot better experience i sl, instead of just buying some cheap crap laptop that can't do anything..??


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I hope they will put a limit on how many alts you can have. Anything over a limit of say five, you get charged for. discouraging the unlimited supply for griefers and others. How many alts does one really need?

 

Throws in 2 cents. :)

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

 

LL used to offer that service several yeas ago but it was a major fail as very few signed up for it.

 I have a phone right on my desk and also I can already use skype when I'm logged in.  I know tons of people that use skype instead of voice too.  Not sure why you think it would be something that was really advantageos.  It might even increase lag.


LL used to offer a voice service that allowed you to call regular phone numbers?

When you use Skype right now you can only talk to other people who have Skype.  If Skype was apart of SL you could voice chat using Skype to any other resident who had voice enabled.

There are two versions of Skype.  The free version which you can only call other people who have Skype and a paid version where you can call normal phone numbers using Skype plus a number of other features the free version of Skype doesn't have.

Getting Skype through a Premium Membership you would get basically the paid version of Skype for no additional charge and or Magic Jack at no additional charge.  Just would depend on what kind of deal LL could strike up with Skype or Magic jack.  So the advantage is you get Skype or Magic Jack at no additional cost if you are a Premium Member.

I am not sure if lag would be an issue or not.  I would tend to think it wouldn't since it would be Skype's servers or Magic Jack servers that would be doing most of the work.

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The speed at which textures load on the viewer have less to do with the speed or quality of someones computer but is more affected by the speed at which LL's servers can transmit the textures and the speed of the Internet connection the resident is using.

You can have the fastest computer but if you have a slow Internet connection the download time from LL's servers is going to be long.

If LL's servers are bogged down with massive amounts of large textures that will also slow things down and and cause longer image load times regardless of how fast ones computer is.

Professionally designed online games use as small of textures as they can get away with and still look good for the reasons I have mentioned.

Your idea about having a graphics setting so those on older computers can set it so larger resolution textures be displayed at a lower LOD is a good one.

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