Oh Great, another forced Tos to sign in today :(

[Vinten 0]

Well here we are again with yet another forced Tos before we can log in again.

Have you read it lol

No further comment from me byt be prepared for a face-plant . .  . . .

[MIstahMoose 204]

Have you?

[Carl Thibodeaux 33]

It actually handled some pretty nice stuff. Stuff to pay attention to when your a SL creator.

[Cathy Foil 127]

The worst of it is even if you don't log into SL just logging into secondlife.com you must agree to the TOS before you can access your account or post in the forums here.

I haven't read it word for word yet but in the Featured News Blog section is says the new TOS mainly has the new updated policy for skill gaming added and some changes to section 2.3.

Supposedly the new wording in section 2.3 is in responses to content creators concerns of LL having full rights to anything content creators create or upload to the grid and that the new wording limits LL's rights to content creators creations.

I have read section 2.3 but I don't see how LL is limiting its rights.  It still says "you agree to grant to Linden Lab, the non-exclusive, unrestricted, unconditional, unlimited, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, and cost-free right and license to use, copy, record, distribute, reproduce, disclose, modify, display, publicly perform, transmit, publish, broadcast, translate, make derivative works of, and sell, re-sell or sublicense (through multiple levels)(with respect to Second Life, Inworld or otherwise on the Service as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service), and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content".

I don't see how this is limiting what LL can do with content creators "User Content".

LL just needs to spell it out what they intend to use "User Content" for.  For example, Promotion Videos, Ability to transfer data to a new corporate or legal owner of SL if LL chooses to sell SL, the ability to transfer items and inventory to a new grid or new virtual world they are building.

It's pretty simple.  LL just needs to be open and honest what they want to use "User Content" for.

[Amethyst Jetaime 1,564]

---

Cathy Foil wrote:

The worst of it is even if you don't log into SL just logging into secondlife.com you must agree to the TOS before you can access your account or post in the forums here.

I haven't read it word for word yet but in the Featured News Blog section is says the new TOS mainly has the new 

updated policy for skill gaming added and some changes to section 2.3.

Supposedly the new wording in section 2.3 is in responses to content creators concerns of LL having full rights to anything content creators create or upload to the grid and that the new wording limits LL's rights to content creators creations.

I have read section 2.3 but I don't see how LL is limiting its rights.  It still says "

you agree to grant to Linden Lab, the non-exclusive, unrestricted, unconditional, unlimited, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, and cost-free right and license to use, copy, record, distribute, reproduce, disclose, modify, display, publicly perform, transmit, publish, broadcast, translate, make derivative works of, and sell, re-sell or sublicense (through multiple levels)(

with respect to Second Life, Inworld or otherwise on the Service as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service

), and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content".

I don't see how this is limiting what LL can do with content creators "User Content".

LL just needs to spell it out what they intend to use "User Content" for.  For example, Promotion Videos, Ability to transfer data to a new corporate or legal owner of SL if LL chooses to sell SL, the ability to transfer items and inventory to a new grid or new virtual world they are building.

It's pretty simple.  LL just needs to be open and honest what they want to use "User Content" for.

---

The original TOS didn't spell out everything the way you suggest the TOS should.  The revised wording pretty much brings the rights you are giving to LL closer to the original TOS by restricting LL's use of your content to SL and the Service.

If you are not sure that it really does or you don't understand the wording, you should consult a lawyer.

 

 

 

[Cathy Foil 127]

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

---

Cathy Foil wrote:

The worst of it is even if you don't log into SL just logging into secondlife.com you must agree to the TOS before you can access your account or post in the forums here.

I haven't read it word for word yet but in the Featured News Blog section is says the new TOS mainly has the new 

updated policy for skill gaming added and some changes to section 2.3.

Supposedly the new wording in section 2.3 is in responses to content creators concerns of LL having full rights to anything content creators create or upload to the grid and that the new wording limits LL's rights to content creators creations.

I have read section 2.3 but I don't see how LL is limiting its rights.  It still says "

you agree to grant to Linden Lab, the non-exclusive, unrestricted, unconditional, unlimited, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, and cost-free right and license to use, copy, record, distribute, reproduce, disclose, modify, display, publicly perform, transmit, publish, broadcast, translate, make derivative works of, and sell, re-sell or sublicense (through multiple levels)(

with respect to Second Life, Inworld or otherwise on the Service as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service

), and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content".

I don't see how this is limiting what LL can do with content creators "User Content".

LL just needs to spell it out what they intend to use "User Content" for.  For example, Promotion Videos, Ability to transfer data to a new corporate or legal owner of SL if LL chooses to sell SL, the ability to transfer items and inventory to a new grid or new virtual world they are building.

It's pretty simple.  LL just needs to be open and honest what they want to use "User Content" for.

---

The original TOS didn't spell out everything the way you suggest the TOS should.  The revised wording pretty much brings the rights you are giving to LL closer to the original TOS by restricting LL's use of your content to SL and the Service.

If you are not sure that it really does or you don't understand the wording, you should consult a lawyer.

 

 

 

---

Please Amethyst if you understand the wording please explane it.

The wording here is particulary difficult to follow and I am having a hard time seeing how it limits what LL can do.

(with respect to Second Life, Inworld or otherwise on the Service as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service)

What I get when I read the section you highlighted in red is it is identifying anything you create in and or upload to SL or any of the other services provided by LL as "User Content".  Meaning anything you post or upload to secondlife.com or the Marketplace it identifys as "User Content".

I really wish I could afford an lawyer to take a look and interpret what the TOS says.

Perhaps Torley Linden can do a video with a lawyer to help explain the new TOS.

I know youa re going to say they don't have to but since LL has made section 2.3 a big deal in the Featured News Blog "Updates to Section 2.3 of the Terms of Service" announcing the new limitations for LL on "User Content" I think it would behove LL to have one of their lawyers sit down with Torley and explain it.

 

 

[JosMojo 0]

Translation:

"with respect to Second Life".......intellectual property granted only for second life

"Inworld or otherwise on the Service" ...........inworld or on the website

"as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service"........according to the mod/copy/transfer perms you set inworld, or the uses you enabled on the website

It's an improvement....I logged in specifically so I could agree to the changed terms.....:catvery-happy:

[Drongle McMahon 589]

After some thought, I think I can offer a possible interpretation. This is guesswork, not legal advice....

() = Parentheses: the second set show a qualification, and the first show the scope to which that qualification applies.

"With respect to SL" = in the case of the SL service, but not the other services covered by the ToS

"Inworld or otherwise on the Service" =  both inworld and in other SL services, such as the Marketplace, SL forums etc

"as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service" = your permission will be required for this to apply.

Then I assume this all applies to the preceding parenthesis, "through multipl;e levels.

In other words, according to my non-lawyer interpretation, the changes appear to make a limitation, applying only to SL, that removes the indefinate extension of the sublicensing. So they can sell your content (as required for the marketplace to exist), but they can't sell a license that would allow the purchaser to provide it to others. Only the first purchaser would be allowed to use it. They could not sell it on or sell derivative procucts of it.

If that's right, it  seems to deal with the problem of the perceived risk that they could sell creators' content to others, because the others would not then be able to use it in any context that would require further license to distribute. That would be consistent with the blog mssage. Whether it will satisfy any third party sources remains to be seen.

You would have to consult professional legal advice to see if my guess is anywhere nearly correct.

[Tali Rosca 0]

...except that they then add

"and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content (and derivative works thereof), for any purpose whatsoever in all formats, on or through any media, software, formula, or medium now known or hereafterdeveloped, and with any technology or devices now known or hereafter developed"

which makes all other parts of the sentence a pretty moot point. "We can do this, this, and this. Oh, and additionally, anything we please".

I have a strong suspicion that LL didn't intend to update the section 2.3 at all. They just realized how bad it would look if they could update the "Skill Games" section with a week's notice after having promised to work on the ToS for almost a year, so they threw some extra, inconsequential words into the sentence.