Ravie Bunny Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I know how all this went down. On 8/27 someone asked LL the question specifically about playing games "across sim borders", and they said in response on 8/28 "No, it's against the policy to do that". Except, there was no policy that said that. The next day, it mysteriously shows up in the FAQ as a "Note:" section, and SGR regions that were connected to non-SGR were suddenly converted back or forced to be moved. The facts point to one thing, that Linden Lab so haphazardly thought through the Skill Game Policy in general, that this is yet another instance where the were oblivious to one of the most obvious things concerning land ownership. They aren't "just now getting around to setting that rule". They had no idea to begin with until another resident asked the question. I'm quite sure had this person not asked the question, this would be no "policy", and would probably be an exploit that would have been used for awhile. It's good they did, it saves the headaches later, but it doesn't hide the facts. It's no different than the ridiculous part of the FAQ that discusses sharing ownership of a skill game with a group. Everyone who has ever created anything concerning debit permissions in SL knows that you cannot request debit permissions on a group owned object. The FAQ entry is completely extraneous to the skill gaming policy as a whole as the only objects it applies to are ones that don't pay out - and is another example that really just shows us that Linden Lab, with all due respect, are not completely clear how their own platform functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Thibodeaux Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 So, starting to see more and more regions turning into gaming. But with the lists of approved games not being updated, nor Skill game operaters either.. Is it safe to even touch a game there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Carl Thibodeaux wrote: So, starting to see more and more regions turning into gaming. But with the lists of approved games not being updated, nor Skill game operaters either.. Is it safe to even touch a game there? If a game is actually on a gaming region I'd imagine the game has been submitted for approval and thus is OK for now. I can't imagine an operator going to all the trouble to set up a gaming SIM and then risking it by using games that had not been submitted yet for approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocefus Moonshadow Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 WHy is gaming outlawed in the states listed in the wiki, when in real life, there is legal gambling on Indian reservations in those states? What's next Linden Labs, 49 states will be prevented from entering sex clubs/brothels in SL unless their billing info states they live in Nevada? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Bocefus Moonshadow wrote: WHy is gaming outlawed in the states listed in the wiki, when in real life, there is legal gambling on Indian reservations in those states? What's next Linden Labs, 49 states will be prevented from entering sex clubs/brothels in SL unless their billing info states they live in Nevada? Oh Puhlease. Indian Reservations are considered "Sovereign Nations" and generally are not subject to state laws. I can buy tobacco products cheaper on a reservation because they don't have to collect taxes. But the minute I leave the reservation with the tobacco the State Tax Man can meet me and collect the tax from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocefus Moonshadow Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 So Native Americans in those state are shyt out of luck., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Bocefus Moonshadow wrote: So Native Americans in those state are shyt out of luck., Well, I don't know if the laws on those Reservations allows gambling outside of their Casinos. I'm far from being an expert on the subject. ETA, to expect Linden Lab to pinpoint the exact Geo Location of every single user via IP is really a bit ridiculous. That kind of information is not really readily publicly or privately available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Bocefus Moonshadow wrote: So Native Americans in those state are shyt out of luck., And let's be clear here. Linden Lab doesn't have any obligation to allow any activity they do not want to allow. If we don't like it then it is pretty simple, we can take our business elsewhere. We do not have any inherent right to anything in Second Life. If they should decide we all have to use Primitar for our Avatars they are perfectly free to do so. If they want to ban all clothing they can do that also. Anything within the boundaries of the law they can do. If they should decide NO GAMING AT ALL they can do it. They are not obligated to allow it. It's THEIR WORLD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocusObrian Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Its no good .Owners of the gambling sims are making avatars that can get by the ip address and are giving them away to the gamblers . Just go look at all the new avi gambling in the last 24 hrs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Pye Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Well... so far this has been sucky. I live in a legal state, with up to date billing and location information and I sitll can't access any skill gaming sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durandir Darwin Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Wasn't it YOUR WORLD, YOUR IMAGINATION (BUT OUR RULES)? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikka Luik Posted September 3, 2014 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Durandir Darwin wrote: Wasn't it YOUR WORLD, YOUR IMAGINATION (BUT OUR RULES)? ;-) Same as it ever was =^^= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Campese Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Just how would this work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocusObrian Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 Not sure but there is definetely a work around in progress .Its being passed directly thru emails or rl telephone with the log info for the new accounts and Yes I have seen the proof in the new avatars .The down fall I guess is you have to start all over. I have no interest in the games and the first I heard of it was thru open voice and as far as I know its working..I also think its limited to only a few people or sims , not sure..and Proxy servers dont seem to work from what I have heard . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 LocusObrian wrote: Its no good .Owners of the gambling sims are making avatars that can get by the ip address and are giving them away to the gamblers . Just go look at all the new avi gambling in the last 24 hrs . What's the saying? 'A fool and his money are soon parted'. Maybe it takes a little extra now but it's still true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 LocusObrian wrote: Not sure but there is definetely a work around in progress .Its being passed directly thru emails or rl telephone with the log info for the new accounts and Yes I have seen the proof in the new avatars .The down fall I guess is you have to start all over. I have no interest in the games and the first I heard of it was thru open voice and as far as I know its working..I also think its limited to only a few people or sims , not sure..and Proxy servers dont seem to work from what I have heard . This sounds more like something Users would do and not the Region Owners. They'd be putting a lot at risk considering what they need to do in order to get approved as an Operator. I could be wrong but this seems more likely to me. Additionally, in order to cash out if they are winning that much would require POIF. Linden Lab would be able to follow the money trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocusObrian Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 The risk is there (skilled gamblers its all about risk) considering the high amount of players from Fl alone the #s are pretty high and I am guessing gifting the winnings to your original avatar or another is no issue .Its still limited only to the high spenders not everyone is going to get this option I would guess. Besides most never cash out its spent in the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenn MacMoragh Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Unfortunately there are 117 pages and to try and sort through them all. Myy questions involve jousting, or melee tournaments. Many offer a linden cash prize given by the host and have a prize barrell where competitors and observers can also add to it. There is no entry fee. But linden cash prizes. Would these fall under skilled gaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 No they would not be subject to the policy. There are 177 pages in this thread, but right at the start links are provided, by LL, to the actual policy. If you read it, you'll see that, if paying to play is not, or cannot be, part of the game, then the game is not subject to the policy. This is about gaming and not about games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian Pexington Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I don't know if this has been answered or not since there are 118 pages for this threat. So I thought I would ask.There are several states banned from being able to take part in gaming. According to wiki it says: " The determination of Prohibited Jurisdictions as set out in this Section 6 reflects a policy decision by Linden Lab and should not be regarded or relied upon by Second Life residents, Region Owners, Operators, Creators or third parties as a determination of the legality of any particular Skill Game or Skill Gaming Region in any particular jurisdiction (whether within or outside the United States). Residents who choose to participate in Skill Gaming are representing and warranting that their conduct is lawful in the jurisdiction in which they are located. Linden Lab reserves the right to amend the list of Prohibited Jurisdictions in its sole discretion and immediately at any time. Residents of the following states and countries may not participate in Skill Gaming in Second Life: Arizona Arkansas Delaware Florida Kentucky Louisiana Maryland South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee How was this decision made, what is the point of banning these particular states, and when will these states be allowed to participate in gaming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Caspian Pexington wrote: How was this decision made, what is the point of banning these particular states, and when will these states be allowed to participate in gaming? As I understand it, these are states whose legislation LL has been advised makes it unlawful, or may make it unlawful, for LL to allow residents of those states to play certain types of games of skill. The argument "but this state has a state lottery," or "this state has casinos" doesn't really mean much, because the question isn't whether it's lawful for residents of that state to play the state lottery or to enter RL casinos located in that state, but whether it's lawful for LL to permit them to access games of skill in SL. So presumably the situation will change if and when any particular state changes its legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Caspian Pexington wrote: I don't know if this has been answered or not since there are 118 pages for this threat. So I thought I would ask.There are several states banned from being able to take part in gaming. According to wiki it says: " The determination of Prohibited Jurisdictions as set out in this Section 6 reflects a policy decision by Linden Lab and should not be regarded or relied upon by Second Life residents, Region Owners, Operators, Creators or third parties as a determination of the legality of any particular Skill Game or Skill Gaming Region in any particular jurisdiction (whether within or outside the United States). Residents who choose to participate in Skill Gaming are representing and warranting that their conduct is lawful in the jurisdiction in which they are located. Linden Lab reserves the right to amend the list of Prohibited Jurisdictions in its sole discretion and immediately at any time. Residents of the following states and countries may not participate in Skill Gaming in Second Life: Arizona Arkansas Delaware Florida Kentucky Louisiana Maryland South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee How was this decision made, what is the point of banning these particular states, and when will these states be allowed to participate in gaming? Hi Caspian, Skill gaming in SL is illegal in the excluded states. That's why they're excluded. The point of the policy is to protect LL from liability for hosting illegal activity. If a state is not excluded, that is not a guarantee by Linden Lab that skill gaming is legal there. That's why they say not to rely on their policy to ascertain legality. Those states won't be allowed to participate unless it becomes legal there. LL policy does not trump law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I looked up the laws for some of the states out of curiosity as people were saying they could play the lottery and other forms of gaming in their state and didn't understand why they couldn't game in SL. Turns out that some of those states allow certain types of gaming in their state in RL, however their laws make it illegal to game on the internet. Of course LL reserves the right to change the list of prohibited jurisdictions as laws can change to allow or disallow gaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian Pexington Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Well that sucks. Thanks Florida! ppfftt. My guy is in Texas and we like to go to this gaming sim to play and hang out. Is there not a way for me to just go there and hang out but not play? Can they not set it up to where it doesn't entirely block me (others) from the sim, but just blocks us from playing the machine? Seems ridiculous to alienate entire states from gaming sims when they could let us hang out and just block us from playing the game or playing but our winnings go back into the pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 What makes a gaming sim preferable to hang out in that other sims? You used the word "us", so, if you just want to hang out, hang out somewhere where there is no gaming. Just out of interest, it's technically easy to prevent an individual from entering a sim, but a whole lot more complicated to prevent him/her from using certain objects in a sim. Suggesting that LL goes the complicated way just so that you can hang out somewhere is a bit silly, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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