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Skill Gaming Policy Thread

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Whether the law indicates that a game must be X% skill based in order to be considered a skill game doesn't matter. LL's policy is that a game must have no chance involved. Games on the list are all involving chance, and worringly a big amount of it. Games such as archery, golf, racing, hockey, etc. are skill based. That's what skill gaming should be about.

 

But maybe clicking numbers on a game board is the pinnacle of skill achievement for the SL population, thus making it "skill based"?

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This policy really has nothing to do with whether a game takes skill or not, it is really about the money.  If a game pays out money LL has stated it is a skill game, which is a load of bull.  Just because soething pays out L$ does not mean it took any skill to make the L$.  Such as the No Devil games, random numbers popping up that you may get lucky enough to match to one on the board is NOT a skill game, it is a game of chance, but because it pays out L$ it is now considered a skill game.

The only "skill" required to play such games is the ability to push a button and match numbers that just randomly get generated.  It is horrible, you guys just can't handle anyone making a profit if you aren't getting a cut of it.  Don't you make enough off of screwing people over on land prices and such?

So let's cut the bull LL, you guys finally realized some people are making bucket loads of L$ at these games and LL isn't getting their cut so they say it's a skill game and now poof they get to make money off of the people by upping the price of land to be a skill game region, non refundable application fee's as well as a quarterly license fee's .

They should be ashamed of themselves.

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EmeraldDevotion wrote:

This policy really has nothing to do with whether a game takes skill or not, it is really about the money.  If a game pays out money LL has stated it is a skill game, which is a load of bull.  Just because soething pays out L$ does not mean it took any skill to make the L$.  Such as the No Devil games, random numbers popping up that you may get lucky enough to match to one on the board is NOT a skill game, it is a game of chance, but because it pays out L$ it is now considered a skill game.

You've completely misunderstood it. You need to read the policy before writing such silly stuff.

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EmeraldDevotion wrote:

This policy really has nothing to do with whether a game takes skill or not, it is really about the money.  If a game pays out money LL has stated it is a skill game, which is a load of bull.  Just because soething pays out L$ does not mean it took any skill to make the L$.  Such as the No Devil games, random numbers popping up that you may get lucky enough to match to one on the board is NOT a skill game, it is a game of chance, but because it pays out L$ it is now considered a skill game.

The only "skill" required to play such games is the ability to push a button and match numbers that just randomly get generated.  It is horrible, you guys just can't handle anyone making a profit if you aren't getting a cut of it.  Don't you make enough off of screwing people over on land prices and such?

So let's cut the bull LL, you guys finally realized some people are making bucket loads of L$ at these games and LL isn't getting their cut so they say it's a skill game and now poof they get to make money off of the people by upping the price of land to be a skill game region, non refundable application fee's as well as a quarterly license fee's .

They should be ashamed of themselves.

The policy is about games of skill with pay and win conditions. If a game is not truely a game of skill that is a different matter.

LL is aware people have been making money off skill games for a long time. LL has been making money off them as well. They are getting their cut when people cash out and have been for years. LL is getting a bigger cut now with new fees and an undisclosed quarterly fee. I believe these fees is to compensate for the losses LL will get as there will be far less skill games in SL.  LL has allowed skill games since the begining and made it clear they were allowed in the wagering policy in 2007. LL made no effort on restricting access based on age or location. There is an option to restrict based on age on parcels but LL never had such a thing in their  policies.

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gotohellworld wrote:

Whether the law indicates that a game must be X% skill based in order to be considered a skill game doesn't matter. LL's policy is that a game must have no chance involved. Games on the list are all involving chance, and worringly a big amount of it. Games such as archery, golf, racing, hockey, etc. are skill based. That's what skill gaming should be about.

 

But maybe clicking numbers on a game board is the pinnacle of skill achievement for the SL population, thus making it "skill based"?

In the Wagering Policy it states:

  1. Rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner,
  2. OR
  3. Rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events

A random number just can't determine the winner but games like backgammon have both skill and chance involved but skill is the determining factor.

 

The skill game policy states

"whose outcome is determined by skill and is not contingent, in whole or in material part, upon chance"

 

Websters dictionary defintion of the word Material as it relates to the topic is .

 
:  having real importance or great consequences <facts material to the investigation>

 

in a legal dictionary the term material means as follows

material

adj. relevant and significant. In a lawsuit, "material evidence" is distinguished from totally irrelevant or of such minor importance that the court will either ignore it, rule it immaterial if objected to, or not allow lengthy testimony upon such a matter. A "material breach" of a contract is a valid excuse by the other party not to perform. However, an insignificant divergence from the terms of the contract is not a material breach.

 

Effecitively chance can be there but it can't out weigh skill. Backgammon is my always go to example of a game that has both skill and chance where skill is the primary determining factor

 

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Stone Campese wrote:

I just think that it's arbitrary and BS that a game that I could play this morning is suddenly aganst the law.

Don't worry about it, that is what happens with narrow thinking.

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Stone Campese wrote:

I just think that it's arbitrary and BS that a game that I could play this morning is suddenly aganst the law.

It's not suddenly against the law, it's LL suddenly complying with existing law.

However, on the first day any law comes into existence, it's sudden, isn't it? Is there some other way to introduce a law? Like making gambling illegal for just an hour a day for the first month, then two and so on? But you just know someone will say "I think it's arbitrary and BS that a game that I could play at 10AM is suddenly only legal before 9AM."

Imagine my surprise last night when I was waiting at a stop light and it suddenly turned green. You'd think they could warn people that's gonna happen so we don't get honked at while searching for the clutch pedal!

;-).

 

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Back several years ago when LL did the huge upset to the gaming portion of SL, I was slightly miffed but was eventually able to find games I could play again.  Since losing my entire original family by the end of 2008, ALL I ever do when I manage to sneak into SL nowadays is...you guessed it...game!  But MASSIVE SURPRISE on me this weekend...I can NO LONGER do that!  I live in FL in RL & therefore, I can't even TP to a gaming sim that I've been playing at for months & months & months.  I can't even begin to express just how MUCH suck factor there is here...

After 7 years in SL, the writing is on the wall & I'm apparently completely through wasting any more of my time in Second Life...it's such a sad waste.

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I'm also blocked out of my favorite gaming sim - I do wonder why. My billing address is in Georgia (granted, I did just update it, but I legit live in Georgia now).. I go back and forth between Florida and Georgia a lot; does SL rely on my physical location or my billing address?

Firestorm is also giving me a message about my preference excluding unknown content and that I need to change that, but not sure how or if I want to.

I will def. be giving LL less money if i can't game. It's a pleasant pasttime for me. but looking at the list of approved games, none of my favorites are on there anyway, :( This sucks, and I feel bad for the owner of the gaming sim I usually haunt, he's a sweetie.

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If you don't live in a banned State, has Payment Information on File and is getting the message from FS about unknown content,  then try removing the card details from your account, and re-adding them.   Yes, it seems odd that you have to take out and put back in the same details but it should work.   Once you've re-added, add the reason e.g. to buy lindens in world and see if your statues changes to "In Use".   If it does, then I don't think you have to buy any lindens to get in.   That is how it worked for me.   Good luck.

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Your state apparently has laws that make it illegal for you to game or at least game on the internet.  LL apparently has received outside pressure from the authorities to prevent people who live in states with laws like  yours to enter a gaming area.  If you want to see that changed the law must change and the place to start is with your states legislator.

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Tanith Stillwater wrote:

 

Firestorm is also giving me a message about my preference excluding unknown content and that I need to change that, but not sure how or if I want to.

There is a BUG report: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-7097

Doing the following seems to help:

"Whirly Fizzle added a comment - 29/Aug/14 4:21 PM

 

It turned out my alt did actually meet all the requirements for accessing a skill gaming region and even though my alts payment method was valid and could be and has been used to buy L$ within the viewer I was advised by support to remove my payment method and then readd the same payment method to force a refresh of the information.

After doing this, my alt could immediately access skill gaming regions."

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I'm a 62 Year old living in the state of Alabama, have payment info on file, as I have had for years... Took out info,  added info back in and still can't get to a gaming sim to fish... How long does this take???

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IMPORTANT TO BE AWARE OF FOR THOSE APPLYING FOR SKILL REGIONS.

There is a recent issue in the last couple days that came up that is and will be causing major disruption to Second Life due to multiple examples of incompetance lately that is makes ones head spin.

In the last day or two as skill game regions it turns out can not be connected to non skill game regions. Converted sims that are have been converted back to non skill game sims.

This is causing either the skill game sim to move or the non skill game sim to move. Forcing who the frak knows how many sims in SL to move.

And it gets better. The skill game policy is set ON A BLOODY HOLIDAY! So delays are likely I am sure as a result.

The reason for this is because people can play games across a sim border. OBVIOUSLY the powers that be DO NOT test these issues AT ALL. Any game owner or even player would have thought of this issue.

The solution to avoid all this garbage is potentially already built into SL but I could be mistaken. When someone is banned from a parcel or sim they are not able to intereact with the objects within said sim. Someone please correct me if I am wrong as I have not been banned too often to know for sure. They could potentially use that feature and adapt it to skill game regions.

But still they should have worked out such a obvious technical detail from the start. Or at the VERY VERY least test the fraking thing out ahead of time. Sorry LL I like what you do mostly but there has been a lot of noob level ball dropping lately in this scramble around this policy. Please work it out properly rather than disrupting the grid with for all we know the moving of hundreds of sims. Test new types of regions before hand when you knew this was all coming down. PLEASE for the sake of all including LL, get your act together ASAP.

 

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That does seem to indicate poor planning.

If a sim is moved it won't cause any disruption.  All landmarks and search teleports will continue to work as before.  I know this because I have moved several sims myself.

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Sorina Garrigus wrote:

In the last day or two as skill game regions it turns out can not be connected to non skill game regions. Converted sims that are have been converted back to non skill game sims. 

This is a little weird. I imagine it will affect at most a handful of regions, but it's odd that they're just now getting around to setting that rule. (Or anyway, I can confirm that the knowledge base wiki FAQ article was only recently updated with that information.) It's interesting that the test Skill Gaming region, "Crunchy" is adjacent a non-Skill Gaming region (as far as I can tell, anyway).

It's hard to imagine this being a technical limitation, really, given that there's no such requirement for Adult regions (even though there's good non-technical reasons there should be in that case).

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Qie Niangao wrote:


Sorina Garrigus wrote:

In the last day or two as skill game regions it turns out can not be connected to non skill game regions. Converted sims that are have been converted back to non skill game sims. 

This is a little weird. I imagine it will affect at most a handful of regions, but it's odd that they're just now getting around to setting that rule.

Right, this has been added on 29 September:

Note: Skill Gaming Regions cannot be located adjacent to non-Skill Gaming Regions.

I guess they have not ever played the xploders which were very common in the past. If they had played they would have known that it was possible to play those across region borders.

This just shows that Linden Lab do not use Second Life as we use. Thus they migh be unaware of some features what we the users might know.

:smileyvery-happy: :smileywink:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

That does seem to indicate poor planning.

If a sim is moved it won't cause any disruption.  All landmarks and search teleports will continue to work as before.  I know this because I have moved several sims myself.

It indicates poor planning among other things.

 

Though it is true landmarks may work as normal it still creates disruption for multi connected sims with multiple forms of content. There are large private multi sim islands that will be affected for example.

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Coby Foden wrote:


Qie Niangao wrote:


Sorina Garrigus wrote:

In the last day or two as skill game regions it turns out can not be connected to non skill game regions. Converted sims that are have been converted back to non skill game sims. 

This is a little weird. I imagine it will affect at most a handful of regions, but it's odd that they're just now getting around to setting that rule.

Right, this has been added on 29 September:

Note: Skill Gaming Regions cannot be located adjacent to non-Skill Gaming Regions.

I guess they have not ever played the xploders which were very common in the past. If they had played they would have known that it was possible to play those across region borders.

This just shows that Linden Lab do not use Second Life as we use. Thus they migh be unaware of some features what we the users might know.

:smileyvery-happy: :smileywink:

That sounds about right. They converted sims then unconverted them again. It makes you really think that the current powers that be at Linden Labs does not have a good feel how SL actually functions in reality. They shouldn't know that just because of games, they would be aware of such issues becaues of general griefing and hurrasment issues. Probably thats why people cant interact with objects in a parcel they are banned from. I am no tsure on the pay aspect though.

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Or they maybe Approved Owners with Approved Games and people playing them?    Some places have gone yes, but all that happens is those people that can't play there anymore, move to another, so yup, the remaining ones will get busy.   People will move around until they find their "fave" and stay.   As more and more games get approved it will basically go back to as it was, with those living in the banned States unable to enter.   For the rest of us...not a lot of change.   Right now there isn't as much choice of games but that won't last long.   It didn't before, and it won't this time. 

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