Gavin Hird Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Lacy Wilder wrote: So, bottom line. This means that on August 1st, all gaming locations will need to shut down and wait for games to be approved. Does that sound about right? Pretty much the situation unless someone's got a fastlane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier10 Albert Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Lacy Wilder wrote: So, bottom line. This means that on August 1st, all gaming locations will need to shut down and wait for games to be approved. Does that sound about right? No. It sounds completely wrong. According to Linden Lab Official: Second Life Gaming FAQ, provided that both the Creators and Operators submit their applications for approval before August 1st, and provided the games are on Skill Gaming Regions (which means the sim owners need to get their applications in fast, too) then the Operators can continue to operate the games while the applications are being processed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You can file provided you find the legal support to prepare all the documentation required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angeliaeyes Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 This whole thing of "Gaming Skills" is not making no sense... I have read these forums on questions and answers about this issue however a Linden keeps refering us back to links. There is a lot of people that would like answers not just go read the forums or links. I totally understand about the casinos however we want answers about Sploders or greedy or contest boards. I am a General Director of a Estates and we need answers we can read until we are blue in the face but what about our answers that we are wanting to know.... Why cannot Lindens just put ok this is what is consider of gaming skill not just direct us back to the reading links. Please state to everyone that enjoys SL to give us a whole list of what you all think "Gaming Skills"! I don't want to come back and see and read go back and read no please we want answers.... Back up your statement if you don't all know then who does? Who writes these policies? Someone needs to step up and GIVE ANSWERS! There is a lot of people that owns Estates and casionos and they have clubs so how about answers... Angeliaeyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacy Wilder Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 So you are saying that SL will designate a sim as a Skill Gaming Region for someone whose application has not yet been approved but is "in process"... and they will continue to allow games which have not yet been approved to be played. Is that what you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenbro Utu Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 angeliaeyes wrote: Why cannot Lindens just put ok this is what is consider of gaming skill not just direct us back to the reading links. Because that would put the liability back on LL, and they don't want it. The liability is being purposely put on the creators and operators. You will never get the answer you want from LL, only from legal representation that you solicite to interpret the TOS provided by LL. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 angeliaeyes wrote: This whole thing of "Gaming Skills" is not making no sense... I have read these forums on questions and answers about this issue however a Linden keeps refering us back to links. There is a lot of people that would like answers not just go read the forums or links. I totally understand about the casinos however we want answers about Sploders or greedy or contest boards. I am a General Director of a Estates and we need answers we can read until we are blue in the face but what about our answers that we are wanting to know.... Why cannot Lindens just put ok this is what is consider of gaming skill not just direct us back to the reading links. Please state to everyone that enjoys SL to give us a whole list of what you all think "Gaming Skills"! I don't want to come back and see and read go back and read no please we want answers.... Back up your statement if you don't all know then who does? Who writes these policies? Someone needs to step up and GIVE ANSWERS! There is a lot of people that owns Estates and casionos and they have clubs so how about answers... Angeliaeyes You won't get a specific answer out of LL, Angelaeyes. They can't comment on games for which they haven't seen applications. You ask about Greedy. As I understand it, the maker of Greedy has already solved that. He's going to replace the existing Greedy games with no-payment ones, which neither accept nor pay out money, so that's settled. Sploders look to me to be out, as games of chance, unless you can make them free to enter. Contest boards shouldn't be affected unless you have to pay to enter the contest. If you look at the FAQ What Does Linden Lab Consider a Skill Game, the question only arises if it's both pay to enter and it pays out cash prizes. So unless you're charging people to enter "Best in Red" or whatever, it's not an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObviousAltIsObvious Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Lacy Wilder wrote: So you are saying that SL will designate a sim as a Skill Gaming Region for someone whose application has not yet been approved but is "in process"... and they will continue to allow games which have not yet been approved to be played. Is that what you think? that is what LL has stated. as long as applications are in by 1 August, those places and games can continue. if those applications are denied, they will then need to cease. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Second_Life_Skill_Gaming_FAQ#I_already_create_games_of_skill_that_offer_Linden_Dollar_payouts._What_do_I_need_to_do_to_ensure_I_am_following_the_Terms_of_Service.3F http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Second_Life_Skill_Gaming_FAQ#I_already_operate_games_of_skill_that_offer_Linden_Dollar_payouts._What_do_I_need_to_do_to_ensure_I_am_following_the_Terms_of_Service.3F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colbylaramore Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I agree with ExoticBanker's arguments, especially the second bullet point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Lacy Wilder wrote: So you are saying that SL will designate a sim as a Skill Gaming Region for someone whose application has not yet been approved but is "in process"... and they will continue to allow games which have not yet been approved to be played. Is that what you think? That is how I interpret I already operate games of skill that offer Linden Dollar payouts. What do I need to do to ensure I am following the Terms of Service? Apply to become an approved operator. Provided that you submit an application before August 1, 2014, you may continue to operate games of skill while your application is being reviewed. In the event that you are notified that your application has not been approved, you must immediately cease operation of games of skill that offer Linden Dollar payouts. and . I own a region and would like it to be converted to a Skill Gaming Region. What do I need to do? Submit a support ticket and pay the applicable maintenance fee. Skill Gaming Regions will begin rolling out in late July, 2014. Note that once your region has been designated a Skill Gaming Region, you will need to become an approved operator if you would like to operate games of skill on that region. For more details, please review the Skill Gaming Policy and application. See Linden Lab Official: Second Life Skill Gaming FAQ here and here. LL won't "designate the sim" unless the owner asks them to and pays the higher tier, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObviousAltIsObvious Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 ExoticBanker wrote: a few questions I can not find in the FAQ anywhere 1. it says a operator can not spend L$ other than to pay for the winnings recieve L from any where other than the person paying to play the game How is the operator suppose to use the money earned to pay for overhead to run the sim ( ex. tier, landscaping, staff , etc) ok so maybe they can send money to one of their 6 alias attached to their operator avy.. that covers the above issues but it does not solve ths one .. how is a operator suppose to buy games from game creators.. another avy cant buy most games and transfer them to the operator .. and the games have to be in the operators name in order for the money to come to and from them during game play. you can cash out from the operator account, then buy L$ from another account. this will be annoying and incur fees, but it makes sense from an audit point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 ObviousAltIsObvious wrote: ExoticBanker wrote: a few questions I can not find in the FAQ anywhere 1. it says a operator can not spend L$ other than to pay for the winnings recieve L from any where other than the person paying to play the game How is the operator suppose to use the money earned to pay for overhead to run the sim ( ex. tier, landscaping, staff , etc) ok so maybe they can send money to one of their 6 alias attached to their operator avy.. that covers the above issues but it does not solve ths one .. how is a operator suppose to buy games from game creators.. another avy cant buy most games and transfer them to the operator .. and the games have to be in the operators name in order for the money to come to and from them during game play. you can cash out from the operator account, then buy L$ from another account. this will be annoying and incur fees, but it makes sense from an audit point of view. The application specifically says that the operator account can pay out for expenses of the operation itself but the expenses have to be declared. That would certainly allow the account to buy the machines themselves, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObviousAltIsObvious Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 this falls apart once somebody wants to make a place that is actually fun to visit. it will work all right for bland expenses of game machines, more creative venues will want to separate the funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 ObviousAltIsObvious wrote: this falls apart once somebody wants to make a place that is actually fun to visit. it will work all right for bland expenses of game machines, more creative venues will want to separate the funds. I'm probably missing the point, but if I wanted to set up a skill gaming venue, what's the problem with creating the venue and doing all the creative work using my main account and using an alt account to own and operate the machines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Scorfield Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 My question is this. I have my main account which has all of my land holdings then I have my alternate or bank accounts that control my businesses. So the question is this is my alt who is not premium and has no land holdings able to be the operator and continue to run the business on a skill games sim owned by my main account. Or is it best that my main becomes the operator and then begin the entire business from scratch? I also have no issues turning the alternate account into a premium account to follow the validation process with up to date payment info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisybloomer Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Clint Scorfield wrote: My question is this. I have my main account which has all of my land holdings then I have my alternate or bank accounts that control my businesses. So the question is this is my alt who is not premium and has no land holdings able to be the operator and continue to run the business on a skill games sim owned by my main account. Or is it best that my main becomes the operator and then begin the entire business from scratch? I also have no issues turning the alternate account into a premium account to follow the validation process with up to date payment info. After re-reading the "Operator Account" section on the e-Application a few times, it's best to use the account in which there is no other activity going on with them, as an operator account cannot use the L it makes from the machines for anything else other than the activity that goes on with the machines (meaning no other commercial activity or gifting with the L in that account). Also even if you decide which one to use, it still is going to be subjected to the applying and approval process by Linden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Scorfield Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Yes that's what i'm reading from the files as well which also means it doesn't really matter what we do since we cna't spend the L's we also can't purchase new games from creators with the L's we earn as an operator and since 95% of the skill games that have been and wil lbe created are non-trans we cannot purchase any new games that we may see in the future. As well as that means that only creators can be operators which also means they have to be the sim owners if I'm reading it all correctly. As to which a friend told me that the Operator account can name some accounts that the lindens can be sent to I beleive they said 6 when they filed there paper work. But that would mean out of the hundreds of game creators we might get to use 6 in my case needing to give money from my operator account to a sim owner account would make it 5. I wish we could get more clarification on this all together so that is why I'm asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisybloomer Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Clint Scorfield wrote: Yes that's what i'm reading from the files as well which also means it doesn't really matter what we do since we cna't spend the L's we also can't purchase new games from creators with the L's we earn as an operator and since 95% of the skill games that have been and wil lbe created are non-trans we cannot purchase any new games that we may see in the future. As well as that means that only creators can be operators which also means they have to be the sim owners if I'm reading it all correctly. As to which a friend told me that the Operator account can name some accounts that the lindens can be sent to I beleive they said 6 when they filed there paper work. But that would mean out of the hundreds of game creators we might get to use 6 in my case needing to give money from my operator account to a sim owner account would make it 5. I wish we could get more clarification on this all together so that is why I'm asking. I think the operator accounts would be able to buy and be the only account able to buy the approved skill games from approved Creators based on Section (3)(e)(iii) in the e-Application. Also the bit you mention about naming some other accounts the L can go to, that falls under the Exceptions part in Section (4)©(i)(1) in which those accounts would be those that are working for your business if you have hired a staff. I am not sure if alts of the owners qualify as that would circumvent the whole idea of having an operator account strictly for the machines. If I have to err on one side, I would say Linden doesn't approve those additional names unless they have a work function within the framework of the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Scorfield Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Yes but wouldn't my main account being owner of the sim be a part of the buisness for he has the land holdings that my alt account that holds the bank and games goes onto those land holdings. As I said it is a very confuseing situation that is not explained very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daisybloomer Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Clint Scorfield wrote: Yes but wouldn't my main account being owner of the sim be a part of the buisness for he has the land holdings that my alt account that holds the bank and games goes onto those land holdings. As I said it is a very confuseing situation that is not explained very well. That's going to be Linden's call to make in the application approval process. I have to admit with this new policy and process, while it's good for organizing things more, it's quite a gauntlet both in the application process and financially for someone to get through and maintain going forward unless they have the large financial capacity to do so. So for the small to average business owner it would end up being more stress than it's worth. And judging by the type of information they are asking for in the application and the need for a clear money trail, I can only educatedly guess and say it is paving the way for taxation somewhere down the pipeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaisleeRose Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Does anyone know where I can get a cheap lawyer for this? Please let me know. I have know idea who to contact for legal advice on second life skills games. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Thibodeaux Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 So, does this mean if we see any games outside a gaming region and people playing or attempting to, the game machines themselves can be reported? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anabella Mosely Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 So let me get this straight....If you live in one the prohibited states you won't even be able to get onto a sim that is considered "gaming" Which means even if you don't play the games but work as a host then you are out of a job and can no longer make L's within the realm of SL without doing something else...Like stripping...hosting at a club..and/or dj'ing....At least that is my understanding of it. That those that currently work at gaming places and live in one of those states won't be allowed to get on the sim once it goes into a "gaming region" Correct me if I am wrong on this...Can see how this is going to hurt a lot of the regions that do gaming. I already know of one place that has said they are going to shut their doors for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Carl Thibodeaux wrote: So, does this mean if we see any games outside a gaming region and people playing or attempting to, the game machines themselves can be reported? If they're pay to play and give cash payouts, then after August 1 they shouldn't be anywhere but on a Skill Gaming Region. So it would seem, yes, if you're sure about the pay to play and cash prizes parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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