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Medhue Simoni

Hey Ebbe, Ideas to Retain Users in the New World

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The Drax files show got me thinking about user retention. I've thought about this before, and mentioned it, but I wasn't sure how feasable it would be. With a new SL in the works, what is truly possible is far more wide open. That said, it might be good to talk about this now, as it might be something that needs to be designed into this new SL. I'll give my "big" idea, but I also hope others might come up with their own versions, or totally different ideas on how to retain more users. Please post your ideas, even if they are not totally flushed out, as this is the perfect place to flush it out.

 

Ok, so this is my "big" idea. It's obvious that SL is complex. It's also obvious that user's need to have some kind of guidance and instructions. The question is, how do you do this in an engaging and fun way? How can we get the average person to connect with this world early on, so that they eventually see parts of SL that we all love? How can we get them to emotionally connect with SL? Do we know of any highly successful businesses that took off in SL, and gave users a solid emotional connection? Well, we do, and this is the breedables and pets in SL. This is where the light bulb clicked on for me, when I thought about the retention problem. In RL, everyone loves their pets. Besides pictures of kids, pets are probably the second most posted images on Facebook. In any good MMO, you get pets that do all kinds of things, including riding them.

So, my idea is for LL to give users in this new SL a LINDEN PET. This pet will give them all the information they need to get around in the new SL. It would also follow them everywhere they went, being right there to help, when needed. It could have some functions for playing around, and basic tricks, but their main purpose would be to help the owner. These pets would be fully functioning NPCs, with their own skeletons and all. Like I said, they would also follow them everywhere, until told not to. This means that LL would have to design that into the new SL, NPCs being able to teleport with you.

This would also be a huge boom for the pet and breedable communities, plus give them functionalities that would improve all pets, like being able to ride them. I would also suggest that every single Linden pet be unique in some way, or seemingly. LL could also allow users to take the code for the Linden Pets, and make their own. Like maybe, as a merchant, I take that code and change it to give information about my store. My pet could stay online in my store, while I'm away, and give information to customers that need it. So, now, my pet is actually working for me and earning his own keep, lol. To me, a Pet is exactly the solution to retention. Who can't resist a cute little fuzzy animal?

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Stop working for free and let LL figure out how to retain users for themselves.

 

BTW - if I had a 'pet' attached to me in SL all the time, I wouldn't bother logging in.

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Senobia Xenga wrote:

Stop working for free and let LL figure out how to retain users for themselves.

 

BTW - if I had a 'pet' attached to me in SL all the time, I wouldn't bother logging in.

I think I can decide properly how best to spend my time. I never charge for my thoughts or ideas.

Notice, I never said attach. My proposal is an actual NPC, not an attachment. I also said right in my post how it would be easy to send the pet away. Maybe you just put them in your inventory, or just rightclick delete. I never implied, at all, that your pet is somehow with you for your whole virtual life.

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Actually I thought this was a very interesting idea. The whole idea of a linden pet..maybe not for everybody but just one possilbe way to get people more involved and people really do need to have a better way to learn how to do things in SL. I've been here since 2007 and I can understand the steep learning curve. Its limiting and likely discouraging to some. 

Certainly don't bash Medhue for coming up with a unique idea...I've always thought that Linden Labs needs some better marketing tools. I rarely every find anybody in my daily life that has ever heard of SL..and after 11 years that is kind of sad that its not better known.

I have no idea what's on the horizon for SL but I sure hope it brings more people in and keeps them!

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A Linden Pet?

The Linden Home fiasco came to mind right off the bat.

Linden Lab needs to stop giving away things that content creators are trying to sell.

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SLAddict Allen wrote:

A Linden Pet?

The Linden Home fiasco came to mind right off the bat.

Linden Lab needs to stop giving away things that content creators are trying to sell.

Seriously, if people can't compete with what LL gives out for free, then they should probably rethink their business plan. I owned a Linden Home, of course, but I literally gave it up, as it was just annoying to be there when I own a whole sim. The vast majority of people that have a LH, just use it as their home base, as you can't really do much there. Even the community areas are no script. Plus, a free product is a bit different than free land, which is not free cause they pay for it with their premium membership.

Another important point that I'll make is that the Default avatar was given to the community for free. What that did was establish a standard for creators to build off of. These pets could do exactly the same thing. Maybe a creator is good at mesh, but not an animator. So, they use the pets animation, and then code in their own behavior. As I stated, the Linden pet has a specific purpose, which is not competing with any business in SL, unless their whole business is teaching people how to use SL. If that is the case, I doubt they will be upset by free pets. Imagine you are a coder, but you can't animate or model. The coder could write in their own behavior and sell that. So, it actually encourages competition, which ultimate favors the consumer. I seriously doubt that any successful breedable company in SL will be in the least bit worried. They would likely love the idea because it will bring more functionality to their own products.

 

So, what is your idea for LL?

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Medhue, there is only one valid idea to keep SL 1 going until SL2 is up without a major loss of customers and content, and that´s 100 percent backwards compatibility of customer assets. As long as this is not announced, SL1 is a lame duck and SL2 will be DOA due to a substantial lack of instantly available content.

Another way would be to withdraw all the "greater" "better", "new" propaganda by announcing just another tablet/smartphone app without any potential to replace SL1.

Anything else is doomed to fail. It´s as if your beloved Blender heinis would announce Blender 3 tomorrow, where you could not even use a simple Blender 2.7 cube.

Hilarious.

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Vivienne Schell wrote:

Medhue, there is only one valid idea to keep SL 1 going until SL2 is up without a major loss of customers and content, and that´s 100 percent backwards compatibility of customer assets. As long as this is not announced, SL1 is a lame duck and SL2 will be DOA due to a substantial lack of instantly available content.

Another way would be to withdraw all the "greater" "better", "new" propaganda by announcing just another tablet/smartphone app without any potential to replace SL1.

Anything else is doomed to fail. It´s as if your beloved Blender heinis would announce Blender 3 tomorrow, where you could not even use a simple Blender 2.7 cube.

Hilarious.

Well, it has already been pointed out why 100% backward compatibility is not possible at all. Techinically and financially, it would not be smart at all. Legally, it also is not possible, or I should say that LL will have problems legally if they try it. They would have to only port over products from merchants that agreed to their TOS.

What you are stating is your opinion, and I have no idea what experience you have that could give you even the slightest amount of credibility. I would argue, from my own experience, that the exact opposite is true. Having 2, distinctly different worlds, saves the value of each world independently, and ensures that both survive on the merits. As a creator, If I want a similar product in the new world, then I will make it. I don't need LL to do anything at all, but build and run the world.

Personally, I think people are giving LL far too much trust that SL2 will even succeed at all. I'd be willing to bet every single dollar that I have saved that LL will completely screw up SL2, and almost nobody will like it. So, to me, all this BS about LL killing SL is a pure emotional response that doesn't take history, or reason into account at all.

That said, as a 3D creator that knows every aspect of 3D creation, I drool over what is possible. I personally would love to really show my customers what I can do with the right tools. So, my heart wants, and very much hopes that LL succeeds.

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"Well, it has already been pointed out why 100% backward compatibility is not possible at all"

I cannot see the word "impossible" in any of the official Linden postings. All they said so far is that they will not restrict themselves by thoughts on backwards compatibility at THIS POINT. And the number was not "impossible", but "not 100 %". They should waste no further time and move the numbers to a point of customer acceptance now, my suggestion is 97 percent, or better 96.9 (Sells better).

Their talent for self-creating cutting crisis is as astonishing as their talent for managing the crisis. Exciting to watch!

 

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Vivienne Schell wrote:

"Well, it has already been pointed out why 100% backward compatibility is not possible at all"

I cannot see the word "impossible" in any of the official Linden postings. All they said so far is that they will not restrict themselves by thoughts on backwards compatibility at THIS POINT. And the number was not "impossible", but "not 100 %". They should waste no further time and move the numbers to a point of customer acceptance now, my suggestion is 97 percent, or better 96.9 (Sells better).

Their talent for self-creating cutting crisis is as astonishing as their talent for managing the crisis. Exciting to watch!

 

They have already stated that script will be completely different. Considering that, easily, more than half the products on the marketplace have scripts, none of which will work. What reason would there be to port over things that don't work? Imagine being a merchant in this new world and the opening day you get thousands of emails saying everything doesn't work. I've dealt with different migrations before, and usually it is more time to correct the problems than to just redo it.

If some1 doesn't understand 3D creation, then they won't understand how bad it would be to make things backward compatible. You are basically asking LL to write the code twice, and the likely results will not be innovation, but an even bigger mess than what we have right now. You are asking LL to not work on making a better world, with better tools, but instead to spend their time making sure that technology from a decade ago still works. What's the point of making this new world if they can't give us all the tools? Do you even understand what creators need? The complexity is vast, yet you want it even more complex, ensuring that we get crap in the end.

 

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No backwards compatibilty. It is a game not a heart-lung machine. ahehe.gif

If you've made money off SL in the past? well done - party is over.

A pet is a great idea, like a tamagochi or a goldfish but its free to maintain. (sends you private messages to facebook)My Bunnies.jpg

Made by LL not some third party profiteer.

And it can die, not like in Farmville where they live on forever without any food.

LL has been pleasing current users for 11 years.

Time to expand even if it means bringing back child friendly areas TAILORED to education etc etc.

If Rolf Harris and his mates dont like that? Well bad luck :P

 

 

 

 

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As a part owner of a region offering free transfer or free set up of a region to existing region owners in the new SL2 would be not only good PR but would help retain region owners in the old sl who want use the new version and carry on offering what they were to the new audience

 

.

 

 

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Vivienne Schell wrote:

"Well, it has already been pointed out why 100% backward compatibility is not possible at all"

I cannot see the word "impossible" in any of the official Linden postings. All they said so far is that they will not restrict themselves by thoughts on backwards compatibility at THIS POINT. And the number was not "impossible", but "not 100 %". They should waste no further time and move the numbers to a point of customer acceptance now, my suggestion is 97 percent, or better 96.9 (Sells better).

Their talent for self-creating cutting crisis is as astonishing as their talent for managing the crisis. Exciting to watch!

 

The Sims series from Maxis/EA is probably the most successful long-running computer game series in history. In the years since Second Life started, Maxis/EA have completely rebuilt the game engine twice with a third rebuild due at the beginning of September. Each new generation has zero percent compatibility with the previous one and many people spend hundreds of dollars on all the expansions for each generation, only to have their content and worlds not be portable to the next generation. Each new generation is announced more than a year before it's released and in the interim they release new expansions for the old series, but these lame-duck expansions still sell.

I imagine that the big reason is the world of The Sims is built on creating and storytelling, and not having things. Once you "have" everything you can, it quickly gets boring With each generation there are better ways to create things and tell stories, and that's what drives the users to shell out their money.

I recently bought a new car for my avatar. I know it won't be compatible for the new world, but it's fun now and I can see having even more fun driving in a new world where I won't find myself unseated at an invisible seam in the world, spun around in the air for a minute and then, after finally manage to claw myself back to virtual earth, be hit from behind by my own unoccupied self-driving car like what just happened to me this morning. The fact that I won't be driving the exact same car doesn't really mean much to me, nor does the fact that I'll have to pay somebody else a few dollars for a new car some time in the future.

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I'm curious,Is this actually a new SL or is it  another virtual world/another product of linden lab's?

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

I'm curious,Is this actually a new SL or is it  another virtual world/another product of linden lab's?

 

That may be a question of semantics.

It will be, apparently, a new VW built around an entirely new code base, with the result that many elements present in the current SL will be incompabible with it. It sounds as though it will not support prims, sculpties, animations in their current file format (BVH, right?), or LSL scripting. It may also be close-sourced.

In other regards, though, it sounds as though it will be very similar to Second Life, with free avatars, land for sale or rent, user-generated content, community standards, etc.

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

I'm curious,Is this actually a new SL or is it  another virtual world/another product of linden lab's?

 

Well, I just made a long and, I think, thought out scenerio of why SL can not be replicated. Not by LL, and certainly not by anyone else. If LL truely caters to creators, then I would never expect it to be anything like SL, and why would I want it to be? Don't get me wrong. I love SL really for what It is. I have met thousands and thousands of people doing anything you can imagine in SL. Is it really reasonably possible to satisfy all of them? They will be miserable, some of them. I want 2 worlds. And I want to be part of both of them. I want to see how both can flourish in their own way, in their own directions. You can't replace SL.

Here is the long version:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Linden-Lab-is-building-a-NEW-virtual-world/m-p/2761982#M186562

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Mirika Drasilova wrote:

As a part owner of a region offering free transfer or free set up of a region to existing region owners in the new SL2 would be not only good PR but would help retain region owners in the old sl who want use the new version and carry on offering what they were to the new audience

 

.

 

 

I do not believe LL can make SL2. Whatever they do make, can't replace SL. By assuming that it will replace SL, you are diminishing the value of what you have done in SL. I don't think anyone can make anything that could replace SL. It's too complex. It covers far too many aspects. It is the REAL SL.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:

I'm curious,Is this actually a new SL or is it  another virtual world/another product of linden lab's?

 

Well, I just made a long and, I think, thought out scenerio of why SL can not be replicated. Not by LL, and certainly not by anyone else. If LL truely caters to creators, then I would never expect it to be anything like SL, and why would I want it to be? Don't get me wrong. I love SL really for what It is. I have met thousands and thousands of people doing anything you can imagine in SL. Is it really reasonably possible to satisfy all of them? They will be miserable, some of them. I want 2 worlds. And I want to be part of both of them. I want to see how both can flourish in their own way, in their own directions. You can't replace SL.

Here is the long version:


I'm with you on that.

I've always said, For another world like it to have holding power it would have to be different,rather than one of the OS worlds that is just like SL in another time in the past..

I'm excited about it really..

Can't wait to dive in.

There is no reason both can't survive at the same time..

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The new VR does interest me however i do not have the finacial resources to create and run a region in both, woul dhave to check out the pricing schema when it emerges, the new VR might be totally different in its intentions, interactions and what you can offer.

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Mirika Drasilova wrote:

The new VR does interest me however i do not have the finacial resources to create and run a region in both, woul dhave to check out the pricing schema when it emerges, the new VR might be totally different in its intentions, interactions and what you can offer.

I'm mildly interested in it. I do think it is overhyped. There will definitely be a niche market for it, but I don't see the millions they talk about. Even, I think HF, is a bit out there for the public, especially the tech, which only coders will even think to be a part of. I think LL has it right. Do something like SL, with all new techniques, and go from there. Facial expression directly from a kinect camers should actually be easy. That would be a cool feature for the New World. LL could easily make a system for creators to make morphs on the avatar's faces to match the expressions for the system. Most people do own a kinect, and the set up is no different than plugging in your mic to use voice. The user might have to go thru a system to make faces so the system know what faces they are making.

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i think is great idea. Like a AI that as new person can ask it how I do this how I do that. Where I go for this and that. Be great I think. Is reallly innovative this idea I think

i would like a little yoda like thingy personally. More a companion than a pet I think. But that just be how I would think about it

+

and if can attach stuff to it like scripted then I give it a big gun. Then I change the First Law of AI Yoda to: waste anyone or anything what tries to harm me. Including other peoples pets. specially if they squirrels. Not that all squirrels are bad. They just sneaky some of them (:

so maybe best to not allow scripted attachments on the LL-provided ones. But mod shapes and outfits be cool

be ok tho for scripted if the tech and AI part was made available mod to put in own (or other creator) made companion/pet

 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

The Drax files show got me thinking about user retention. I've thought about this before, and mentioned it, but I wasn't sure how feasable it would be. With a new SL in the works, what is truly possible is far more wide open. That said, it might be good to talk about this now, as it might be something that needs to be designed into this new SL. I'll give my "big" idea, but I also hope others might come up with their own versions, or totally different ideas on how to retain more users. Please post your ideas, even if they are not totally flushed out, as this is the perfect place to flush it out.

 

Ok, so this is my "big" idea. It's obvious that SL is complex. It's also obvious that user's need to have some kind of guidance and instructions. The question is, how do you do this in an engaging and fun way? How can we get the average person to connect with this world early on, so that they eventually see parts of SL that we all love? How can we get them to emotionally connect with SL? Do we know of any highly successful businesses that took off in SL, and gave users a solid emotional connection? Well, we do, and this is the breedables and pets in SL. This is where the light bulb clicked on for me, when I thought about the retention problem. In RL, everyone loves their pets. Besides pictures of kids, pets are probably the second most posted images on Facebook. In any good MMO, you get pets that do all kinds of things, including riding them.

So, my idea is for LL to give users in this new SL a LINDEN PET. This pet will give them all the information they need to get around in the new SL. It would also follow them everywhere they went, being right there to help, when needed. It could have some functions for playing around, and basic tricks, but their main purpose would be to help the owner. These pets would be fully functioning NPCs, with their own skeletons and all. Like I said, they would also follow them everywhere, until told not to. This means that LL would have to design that into the new SL, NPCs being able to teleport with you.

This would also be a huge boom for the pet and breedable communities, plus give them functionalities that would improve all pets, like being able to ride them. I would also suggest that every single Linden pet be unique in some way, or seemingly. LL could also allow users to take the code for the Linden Pets, and make their own. Like maybe, as a merchant, I take that code and change it to give information about my store. My pet could stay online in my store, while I'm away, and give information to customers that need it. So, now, my pet is actually working for me and earning his own keep, lol. To me, a Pet is exactly the solution to retention. Who can't resist a cute little fuzzy animal?

Hey, you just reinvented Microsoft's Bob!

And that went well, didn't it...?

Father "Ebbe would probably go for that - again" Jim

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madjim wrote:


... ... that went well, didn't it...?

 

eugene !!! is that u ?? o.m.g. !!! it is u. i can haz ur autagraf plz ?? 

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irihapeti wrote:


madjim wrote:


... ... that went well, didn't it...?

 

eugene !!! is that u ?? o.m.g. !!! it is u. i can haz ur autagraf plz ?? 

No, this is Eugene.

Father "Sorry, I don't do free autographs; send money and I'll see what I can do" Jim

 

 

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madjim wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

The Drax files show got me thinking about user retention. I've thought about this before, and mentioned it, but I wasn't sure how feasable it would be. With a new SL in the works, what is truly possible is far more wide open. That said, it might be good to talk about this now, as it might be something that needs to be designed into this new SL. I'll give my "big" idea, but I also hope others might come up with their own versions, or totally different ideas on how to retain more users. Please post your ideas, even if they are not totally
flushed out
, as this is the perfect place to
flush it ou
t.

 

Ok, so this is my "big" idea. It's obvious that SL is complex. It's also obvious that user's need to have some kind of guidance and instructions. The question is, how do you do this in an engaging and fun way? How can we get the average person to connect with this world early on, so that they eventually see parts of SL that we all love? How can we get them to emotionally connect with SL? Do we know of any highly successful businesses that took off in SL, and gave users a solid emotional connection? Well, we do, and this is the breedables and pets in SL. This is where the light bulb clicked on for me, when I thought about the retention problem. In RL, everyone loves their pets. Besides pictures of kids, pets are probably the second most posted images on Facebook. In any good MMO, you get pets that do all kinds of things, including riding them.

So, my idea is for LL to give users in this new SL a LINDEN PET. This pet will give them all the information they need to get around in the new SL. It would also follow them everywhere they went, being right there to help, when needed. It could have some functions for playing around, and basic tricks, but their main purpose would be to help the owner. These pets would be fully functioning NPCs, with their own skeletons and all. Like I said, they would also follow them everywhere, until told not to. This means that LL would have to design that into the new SL, NPCs being able to teleport with you.

This would also be a huge boom for the pet and breedable communities, plus give them functionalities that would improve all pets, like being able to ride them. I would also suggest that every single Linden pet be unique in some way, or seemingly. LL could also allow users to take the code for the Linden Pets, and make their own. Like maybe, as a merchant, I take that code and change it to give information about my store. My pet could stay online in my store, while I'm away, and give information to customers that need it. So, now, my pet is actually working for me and earning his own keep, lol. To me, a Pet is exactly the solution to retention. Who can't resist a cute little fuzzy animal?

Hey, you just reinvented Microsoft's Bob!

And that went well, didn't it...?

Father "Ebbe would probably go for that - again" Jim

Even if 'fleshed out' this one needs to be flushed out.

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