Dear Ebbe Altberg and Philip Rosedale - Public Vote Request

[Vinten]

I have a request and wondered if you would consider the following:

Can I respectfully request that you put these proposed changes to the SL platform to a 'Public Vote.'

Simply speaking; You and your team created the original platform, but we the residents created the content, invested our money and populated the SL world. Because of 'our investment,' you have the funds to develop SL2.

Reading through the forum, there is support for you proposal swinging both ways and I am not making this post to discuss the politics of that in this thread.

It would be beneficial to all if you laid out your proposals in a clear manner, including your idea's for various options and let us vote as a community. This way is fair and democratic and also, you are giving us a say in the matter considering that we all played a major role in getting us all as a team this far.

Remember, I am not saying what is right and wrong, I am asking that you let us gauge that for ourselves please.

Can you oblige?

Your personal response would be gratefully received.

 

 

 

 

[DesperadoReprise]

Erm, Linden Lab is a commercial entity, not a democracy.

"the queen of diamonds let you down"

[Vinten]

Not bothered how it is labelled Desperado, it's a simple enough request in which the answer will either be yes or no.

[Nova Convair]

Another funny reaction. Good joke

But there will be a vote. You and everybody else can decide to use or not use SL2.

Problem solved,

[Vinten]

Good answer Nova but until it's 'officially confirmed' that both systems will run side by side and we have that choice then great.

Point is, I am asking in a respectful manner about what choices we may have.

I have made no demands, I am simply asking if we can vote and have an input which will influence things from our perspective to.

Just simply asking if possible?

[LaskyaClaren]

I have some sympathy with this idea, although I don't of course think it would ever be considered.

I'd be curious to know, however, how many SL creators, including those who might support this kind of direct input into LL's decision-making process, would be willing to apply the same "democratic" principles to their own customers?

[Perrie Juran]

I'm not sure what you are asking for.

It's not 'changes to the platform' they are doing.

It's a whole new platform.

And when it launches I will vote with my feet.

A million people log into SL every month. 

Maybe they will shutter the old and lose half their users from the "OMG, Linden Lab is teh evil" crowd.

I really consider that their problem.

But I doubt that LL will shutter SL right off the cuff, not with a million people logging in every month.

[Teagan Tobias]

As has been stated, you will vote by using or not using.

For me, when I get my ID for SL2 and log in, the first two things I will look at is my avatar and my name. I need to keep my name, and if my avatar is a lot better, and that is A LOT BETTER, than my SL1 avatar, then I will keep looking around. Each step into the new world will determine if I stay or not, but that first step will make or break it for me. Not that other parts of SLTNG will not have as much say in me staying or not, like at least some of my mesh inventory needs to COPY over, and yes I said copy, just in case I can't stand it and need to go back to SL1, I need to keep my inventory and not have it in a place I can't stand. (I only purchase copy items, and its still Linden Lab, and they own everything.)

I don't care if we vote on parts or not, but if LL does not at least talk to us, a lot, then it will most likely be DOA.

[Vinten]

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

I have some sympathy with this idea, although I don't of course think it would ever be considered.

I'd be curious to know, however, how many SL creators, including those who might support this kind of direct input into LL's decision-making process, would be willing to apply the same "democratic" principles to their own customers?

---

 There are many creators that take direct input from their customer base to shape their products. Cheshyr Pontchartrain at Novatech is one example amongst many. he's always in his group taking suggestions and answering requests from his purchasers.

Fanatik Architecture is another example of a vendor that let their customers shape their products.

Many Many more . . . 

[Christin73]

LL's Owns the platform. It DOES NOT own the creations that are user made. I hope they don't get rid of the origional SL. I think alot of people will stay with what they know even if they try the new one. LL's is still makeing plenty of money off the premium members and L$ exchange to not keep the origional.

[Vinten]

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Christin73 wrote:

LL's Owns the platform. It DOES NOT own the creations that are user made. I hope they don't get rid of the origional SL. I think alot of people will stay with what they know even if they try the new one. LL's is still makeing plenty of money off the premium members and L$ exchange to not keep the origional.

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I think you will find they changed the TOS and in fact they do own our creations. This is another Bone of contention with many people for the rights and wrongs of it. Clever move they did yes?

[Rhys Goode]

I keeping my name and a nicely designed avatar would be great.  

But in the long run, designing a platform which does not let the clueless creators lock up my computer with laggy, poorly designed crap, would be worth more to me.  Don't get me wrong, there are lots of good creators, and having the residents do the building is what makes SL so attractive in the first place, but there are too many things that have been built with 4096x4096 textures used for every last detail.  (Yeah, I know SL trims them down to 1024's, but the clueless creators do not).  Or some of the nifty keen mesh clothes that have so many verts that you cannot stand next to the person wearing it.

please, please, SL2 , put in some building guidlines that make sense.

[Vinten]

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Rhys Goode wrote:

I keeping my name and a nicely designed avatar would be great.  

But in the long run, designing a platform which does not let the clueless creators lock up my computer with laggy, poorly designed crap, would be worth more to me.  Don't get me wrong, there are lots of good creators, and having the residents do the building is what makes SL so attractive in the first place, but there are too many things that have been built with 4096x4096 textures used for every last detail.  (Yeah, I know SL trims them down to 1024's, but the clueless creators do not).  Or some of the nifty keen mesh clothes that have so many verts that you cannot stand next to the person wearing it.

please, please, SL2 , put in some building guidlines that make sense.

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Rhys, what are your feelings about the residents having some say in the development and decision making about SL's way forward?

If you agree that we should have influential input, how would you say that we communicate this to LL's?

(a) By Voting?

(b) By receiving a questionnaire form or being diverted to an online questionnaire?

© None of the above?

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

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LaskyaClaren wrote:

I have some sympathy with this idea, although I don't of course think it would ever be considered.

I'd be curious to know, however, how many SL creators, including those who might support this kind of direct input into LL's decision-making process, would be willing to apply the same "democratic" principles to their own customers?

---

I have little sympathy for this idea. Imagine what second life would have been had Philip Rosedale solicited input from potential customers, rather than followed his dream.

The best work I've seen in my professional life came from people who "just don't listen".

But they do watch.

[Phil Deakins]

Someone already said that LL has not propsed any changes to the SL platform, but I think you mean putting whether or not they should create a new platform to a public vote.

First, they have no intention of closing SL after the new platfrom is launched.

Second, there is absolutely no reason that I can think of why a company should ask its customers whether or not they should design something new. Do car manufacturers ask their customers to vote on whether or not they produce a new car? Of course not. If they don't produce a new car, they fall behind and eventually lose their business. LL is no different. They are creating a new model and the old model will still work - just like cars. If they don't design a new model, sooner or later, someone else will, and LL will fall behind and go into decline. The idea of asking us whether or not they create a new model is ludicrous. Quite frankly, wanting them to get our go-ahead is a very self-centred attitude. LL is about making profits, and not about bending over backwards to satisfy the whims of the users. For many users, SL is about enjoying it as it is. The two views don't match, and the only view that matters is the one that LL has. Remember that SL only exists so that LL can make profits, so LL making profits into the future is the only thing that matters long-term.

[DesperadoReprise]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

they have no intention of closing SL after the new platfrom is launched.

 

---

Ebbe has said that LL will close SL as soon as it becomes unprofitable.

That sounds like a death sentence to me.

"is there going to be anything left?"

[Vinten]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Someone already said that LL has not propsed any changes to the SL platform, but I think you mean putting whether or not they should create a new platform to a public vote.

First, they have no intention of closing SL after the new platfrom is launched.

Second, there is absolutely no reason that I can think of why a company should ask its customers whether or not they should design something new. Do car manufacturers ask their customers to vote on whether or not they produce a new car? Of course not. If they don't produce a new car, they fall behind and eventually lose their business. LL is no different. They are creating a new model and the old model will still work - just like cars. If they don't design a new model, sooner or later, someone else will, and LL will fall behind and go into decline. The idea of asking us whether or not they create a new model is ludicrous. Quite frankly, wanting them to get our go-ahead is a very self-centred attitude. LL is about making profits, and not about bending over backwards to satisfy the whims of the users. For many users, SL is about enjoying it as it is. The two views don't match, and the only view that matters is the one that LL has. Remember that SL only exists so that LL can make profits, so LL making profits into the future is the only thing that matters long-term.

---

Thank you Phil. This represents your personal view and I am grateful that you have added input into the post.

I won't make assumptions about your attitude though as you have done with mine. That adds no value for me but thank you all the same!

[Coby Foden]

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Rhys Goode wrote:

I keeping my name and a nicely designed avatar would be great.

---

Here's what Ebbe has said:

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Ebbe Linden wrote:

• Avatars will be radically improved

....

Question: Will at least the L$ currency remain the same and will available balances be usable in both worlds?

• Yes

• Identity and friends will be preserved.

---

Some people have already asked that would it be possible to import the present SL avatar to the new world.

We'll, we don't know anything about that yet. Besides, I wonder would there be lot of interest to such possibility if the new world avatars would be radically better in looks and functionality.

[Vivienne Schell]

"I have little sympathy for this idea. Imagine what second life would have been had Philip Rosedale solicited input from potential customers, rather than followed his dream.

The best work I've seen in my professional life came from people who "just don't listen""

 

Your professional lifespan must be based on a short term memory then.

Until 2007/08 Linden Lab did official, extensive public polling. Which was not a bad idea at all.

But it´s a lil but too late for polls on SL2 now, unfortunately.

[Phil Deakins]

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Vivienne Schell wrote:

Until 2007/08 Linden Lab did official, extensive public polling. Which was not a bad idea at all.

But it´s a lil but too late for polls on SL2 now, unfortunately.

---

1. I do remember an LL poll - about the V2. The had the poll and then ignored the results and went ahead with it anyway.

2. There should not be a poll on SL2. It has nothing to do with SL, except that it's a new model. It's nothing to do with us. The only thing that is to do with us is whether ot not SL closes down when the new model is launched, and we've already been told that it won't, and that it will keep running until it's no longer worthwhile.

[Vivienne Schell]

"I do remember an LL poll - about the V2. The had the poll and then ignored the results and went ahead with it anyway."

The original polling, introduced by Linden Lab in 2004 was done on an at least monthly, if not weekly schedule (any other oldsies left here who remember the exact schedule?) and abandoned before your avatar was born.

But it´s plain wrong that Phil Rosedale did not listen, the opposite is true. At that time Lindens were present and actively communicating at every newbie hub and we had a lot of fun bashing them for their beards. Even later on a friend of mine set fire under Oz Lindens bottom during an office hour. I think that they gave up on it once the big 2006-2009 hype let first SL and theri their servers explode, which exposed their fragile pixel psyche to public wrath in a too unpleasant way (or maybe they were as fed up as we were by the scheduled thurdsday blackouts!).

"There should not be a poll on SL2. It has nothing to do with SL, except that it's a new model."

I agree that there should not be a poll on the technology. But other aspects would probably be enlightening for the Lab.

Like:

Do you want to be able to port your inventory to SL2? YES - NO.

:matte-motes-oh-rly:

 

 

[Vivienne Schell]

"please, please, SL2 , put in some building guidlines that make sense."

We would not need a SL2 for fixing this, you know.

[Vivienne Schell]

I doubt that the new avatars will be better looking as their new newbie mesh avis. Just create a new account and go for the proof of what Linden Lab is willing and capable of to do. Or better do not, it might destroy your illusions of a company which knows what "the noob" wants in a shocking devastating way.

[Teagan Tobias]

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DesperadoReprise wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

they have no intention of closing SL after the new platfrom is launched.

 

---

Ebbe has said that LL will close SL as soon as it becomes unprofitable.

That sounds like a death sentence to me.

"is there going to be anything left?"

---

(I did the bold)

This statement is true for all corporations, every business or organization, when it is no longer profitable they go out of business. It has always been true for Second Life too, when it is no longer profitable it will close. There is nothing new about that.

[Teagan Tobias]

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Vivienne Schell wrote:

I doubt that the new avatars will be better looking as their new newbie mesh avis. Just create a new account and go for the proof of what Linden Lab is willing and capable of to do. Or better do not, it might destroy your illusions of a company which knows what "the noob" wants in a shocking devastating way.

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You don't need to create an account, I think there is a tool in the tool box that lets you pick any of them at any time, I'm pretty sure but not online right now.