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Medhue Simoni

Be More like Blender, LL on the new SL

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Allow me to explain:

The Blender Foundation is currently working on a movie project. They do this, or something like this, every year. The reason is to better design the tools how designers want them, or need them. The projects are a chance for the coders to work directly with designers/producers to make a better Blender.

There is a wealth of creators in SL, and for the most part, we're cheap.

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Short and sweet and right on the nose. One of the most sensible reactions yet.

(And if we could have a bunch of Blender like capability coupled with the ease of in world tools

I would gladly sacrifice my firstborn - metaphorically).

(ETA my spelling is atrocious pre coffee)

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sirhc DeSantis wrote:

Short and sweet and right on the nose. One of the most sensible reactions yet.

(And if we could have a bunch of Blender like capability coupled with the ease of in world tools

I would gladly sacrifice my firstborn - metaphorically).

(ETA my spelling is atrocious pre coffee)

I'd love to see inworld mesh and animation tools, that would be the top of my list for new features. 

 

But I don't think the OP wasn't talking about blender as a tool, but doing some thing like the blend open movie projects as a way for LL to test and get user feed back on the new SL.  Every year or so Blender sponsors a movie project to test the software and show off it's capabilities. 

http://www.blender.org/features/projects/

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The LDWP would be a good example of how LL all ready does this,  as moles are resendent content creators, contracted by LL.  Not sure how much contact mole currently have with the programers, but that could easly be changed for a project.

An other way LL could easly do some thing like this would be to offer LEA land grants during the bata testing of the new SL, this would be better for user guided projects with feed back to LL, and LDWP projects for LL guided projects. 

 

 

 

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Parrish Ashbourne wrote:


sirhc DeSantis wrote:

Short and sweet and right on the nose. One of the most sensible reactions yet.

(And if we could have a bunch of Blender like capability coupled with the ease of in world tools

I would gladly sacrifice my firstborn - metaphorically).

(ETA my spelling is atrocious pre coffee)

I'd love to see inworld mesh and animation tools, that would be the top of my list for new features. 

 

But I don't think the OP wasn't talking about blender as a tool, but doing some thing like the blend open movie projects as a way for LL to test and get user feed back on the new SL.  Every year or so Blender sponsors a movie project to test the software and show off it's capabilities. 


I wasn't talking about inworld tools, although I'm not against them. What I really do not want, is to be forced to use inworld tools. As a Blender user, I'd much rather use Blender, as LL could never make an inworld system that could equal Blender and trying would be a complete waste of time, which LL already has enough work to do and features to implement.

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Parrish Ashbourne wrote:

The LDWP would be a good example of how LL all ready does this,  as moles are resendent content creators, contracted by LL.  Not sure how much contact mole currently have with the programers, but that could easly be changed for a project.

An other way LL could easly do some thing like this would be to offer LEA land grants during the bata testing of the new SL, this would be better for user guided projects with feed back to LL, and LDWP projects for LL guided projects. 

 

 

 

Every creator is different, and is going to make things in different ways, depending on their strengths. I was in the Mesh Beta user group, and that was a very good experience, although I was just learning mesh, and didn't have much to input.

The problem I see, is the participation rate, which will be spotting if their isn't incentives for the creators to be fully involved. Yes, there is a long term incentive to help out just so we get something good, but that long term incentive doesn't pay for the creators time today, when they need to eat. So, I'd like to see LL offer up a number of creation projects for this new world and pay creators to not only create them but give feedback. The goal should be to get as many creators involved as possible, across a range of creation skills. The cost to LL is minimal compared to the feedback they get back, and the end products could be freebies to start out the world with. I stress that the amount of creators involved should be as vast as possible. Not a dozen, but 10 dozen or more. Also, if the creator is getting some kind of pay, they are much more willing to give feedback, plus sign, and adhere to an NDA.

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1 idea, just off the top of my head, would be for LL to create the first complex game for this new world. Possibly some kind of shooter game. Something complex enough to encompass most games that people encounter. They would then pay coders, modelers, animators and so on to form this rag tag team, and work directly with LL to make it all happen. The game and assets should encompass all aspects of 3D creation. The end result would be a workable complex game for this new world, plus totally relevant feedback and adjustments to that world. For the users and creators, we'd then have access to all the assets for this game, so that we can create our own version, and build on what was initially made.

If funding is an issue, then LL could do some kind of kickstarter type of thing, if the game looks engagin enough, or they could do all the funding in SL thru lindens. If the community likes the idea, they will help to fund it. Heck, just look at the Mesh Deformer that got funded by the user base. Not a ton of money, but even that would easily pay for quite a few game assets.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Parrish Ashbourne wrote:


sirhc DeSantis wrote:

Short and sweet and right on the nose. One of the most sensible reactions yet.

(And if we could have a bunch of Blender like capability coupled with the ease of in world tools

I would gladly sacrifice my firstborn - metaphorically).

(ETA my spelling is atrocious pre coffee)

I'd love to see inworld mesh and animation tools, that would be the top of my list for new features. 

 

But I don't think the OP wasn't talking about blender as a tool, but doing some thing like the blend open movie projects as a way for LL to test and get user feed back on the new SL.  Every year or so Blender sponsors a movie project to test the software and show off it's capabilities. 


I wasn't talking about inworld tools, although I'm not against them. What I really do not want, is to be forced to use inworld tools. As a Blender user, I'd much rather use Blender, as LL could never make an inworld system that could equal Blender and trying would be a complete waste of time, which LL already has enough work to do and features to implement.

I'm hoping the inworld tools go the way high fedility sounds like it's going with them.  I'd love to be able to add some wrist weights to a pair of data gloves and acutally get a work out building in a 3D enviroment. 

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Parrish Ashbourne wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:


Parrish Ashbourne wrote:


sirhc DeSantis wrote:

Short and sweet and right on the nose. One of the most sensible reactions yet.

(And if we could have a bunch of Blender like capability coupled with the ease of in world tools

I would gladly sacrifice my firstborn - metaphorically).

(ETA my spelling is atrocious pre coffee)

I'd love to see inworld mesh and animation tools, that would be the top of my list for new features. 

 

But I don't think the OP wasn't talking about blender as a tool, but doing some thing like the blend open movie projects as a way for LL to test and get user feed back on the new SL.  Every year or so Blender sponsors a movie project to test the software and show off it's capabilities. 


I wasn't talking about inworld tools, although I'm not against them. What I really do not want, is to be forced to use inworld tools. As a Blender user, I'd much rather use Blender, as LL could never make an inworld system that could equal Blender and trying would be a complete waste of time, which LL already has enough work to do and features to implement.

I'm hoping the inworld tools go the way high fedility sounds like it's going with them.  I'd love to be able to add some wrist weights to a pair of data gloves and acutally get a work out building in a 3D enviroment. 

Yeah, that looks interesting, which is also why we need to import morphs, so we can connect those facial morphs to a system that controls them. That is all they are doing in High Fidelity. The character has morphs, lets say in the eye brows, connected to it's system so that the eyebrows can move when the users eyebrows move. I'm all for all that stuff, but I'm not totally convinced that anything beyond the face is quite what people want. Seeing your hands is cool and all, and immersive, but not any kind of eccential technology that most I think will use. Facial expression integration should be pretty straight forward now tho.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Parrish Ashbourne wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:


Parrish Ashbourne wrote:


sirhc DeSantis wrote:

Short and sweet and right on the nose. One of the most sensible reactions yet.

(And if we could have a bunch of Blender like capability coupled with the ease of in world tools

I would gladly sacrifice my firstborn - metaphorically).

(ETA my spelling is atrocious pre coffee)

I'd love to see inworld mesh and animation tools, that would be the top of my list for new features. 

 

But I don't think the OP wasn't talking about blender as a tool, but doing some thing like the blend open movie projects as a way for LL to test and get user feed back on the new SL.  Every year or so Blender sponsors a movie project to test the software and show off it's capabilities. 


I wasn't talking about inworld tools, although I'm not against them. What I really do not want, is to be forced to use inworld tools. As a Blender user, I'd much rather use Blender, as LL could never make an inworld system that could equal Blender and trying would be a complete waste of time, which LL already has enough work to do and features to implement.

I'm hoping the inworld tools go the way high fedility sounds like it's going with them.  I'd love to be able to add some wrist weights to a pair of data gloves and acutally get a work out building in a 3D enviroment. 

Yeah, that looks interesting, which is also why we need to import morphs, so we can connect those facial morphs to a system that controls them. That is all they are doing in High Fidelity. The character has morphs, lets say in the eye brows, connected to it's system so that the eyebrows can move when the users eyebrows move. I'm all for all that stuff, but I'm not totally convinced that anything beyond the face is quite what people want. Seeing your hands is cool and all, and immersive, but not any kind of eccential technology that most I think will use. Facial expression integration should be pretty straight forward now tho.

I wasen't talking about avatar expressions, but actually picking up objects inworld with your hands and shaping it with hand movement.  I'm not the average user, I'm not looking for facial expressions,  "I need a Sino-Logic 16, Sogo-7 data gloves, GPL stealth module, Burdine intelligent translator, and some Thompson eye-phones"  I've been wating for some thing like that sence the early 80s, what's taking so long... lol :)

If I ran LL I woulden't hire any one who coulden't tell me what that quote is from.

 

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I've been looking for a general new SL thread and I haven't found one yet. I've been curious as to what's going to happen to us merchants. I understand that content won't be backwards compatible, but I don't know what implications that gives us.

Does it mean we just have to re-upload things? Or does it mean there's no more user created mesh?

I am a little concerned at the moment, I feel much like LL could completely do a lot of merchants in. But at the same time I think maybe LL will give us better tools. It seems like an SL replacement that was more intended to function as a game engine as opposed to a virtual world would be far better. Somewhere where creating your own FPS game on a server would be much more enjoyable. So I don't really know if the new SL will be amazing for content creators or an execution of their existence.

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Flea Yatsenko wrote:

I've been looking for a general new SL thread and I haven't found one yet. I've been curious as to what's going to happen to us merchants. I understand that content won't be backwards compatible, but I don't know what implications that gives us.

Does it mean we just have to re-upload things? Or does it mean there's no more user created mesh?

I am a little concerned at the moment, I feel much like LL could completely do a lot of merchants in. But at the same time I think maybe LL will give us better tools. It seems like an SL replacement that was more intended to function as a game engine as opposed to a virtual world would be far better. Somewhere where creating your own FPS game on a server would be much more enjoyable. So I don't really know if the new SL will be amazing for content creators or an execution of their existence.

here's the other 2 threads so far

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Another-Interview-With-Ebbe/td-p/2755128

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Linden-Lab-is-building-a-NEW-virtual-world/td-p/2753476

we can only guess at this point what will happen. I think it's safe to say it's not going to be a game platform, but with new features could be better for building games. I've made lots of other predictions in the first link, but as I said were all just guessing at this point.

I woulden't panic I don't expect this to happen for a year or more,  and won't be the end of SL when it dose, but defiantly some thing to keep an eye on.

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Flea Yatsenko wrote:

I've been looking for a general new SL thread and I haven't found one yet. I've been curious as to what's going to happen to us merchants. I understand that content won't be backwards compatible, but I don't know what implications that gives us.

Does it mean we just have to re-upload things? Or does it mean there's no more user created mesh?

I am a little concerned at the moment, I feel much like LL could completely do a lot of merchants in. But at the same time I think maybe LL will give us better tools. It seems like an SL replacement that was more intended to function as a game engine as opposed to a virtual world would be far better. Somewhere where creating your own FPS game on a server would be much more enjoyable. So I don't really know if the new SL will be amazing for content creators or an execution of their existence.

When they say it will not be backwards compatible, they mean the new world will not allow you to import prim, sculpty, and flexy objects from SL. Mesh is a universal asset for almost all games. Animation might be slightly different, but I'm sure some1 will create an easy converter for those that don't know how to do it themselves, or some kind of retargeting converter. I'm an animator and I'm not worried about those.

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One way to get people to endorse the new product (finances aside, since we know nothing about the model they're pursuing):

* Identify big communities in SL (combat, vehicle use, clubbers, you name it) and involve people from those groups in the early alpha/beta. That should also include some of the best creators of those groups.

* Generate enough content to make the new product appealing BEFORE beta.

However: Anyone remember that Blue Mars sillyness? Plenty of content, no users. It's not just about the technical aspects, it's also about getting mass market appeal. SL was an accident. Now with plenty of easily accessable dataminers...er...social media companies... it's not going to be as easy. LL would _need_ to convert most of SL's user base over, on top of making it more accessible to the average user. Because right now it's only for people who can spend heaps of time online in front of a fairly high-end PC. It's got a steep learning curve to boot. Neither of which can be helped by creating even the most astonishing virtual or augmented world on the planet.

While I hope I'm wrong, I don't see LL having the vision to get it going. On the plus side, I also don't think any other company has even the first clue either.

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I hope it's not entirely mesh some building block (doesn't have to be prims maybe even a new set or exspanded) mesh is limited yes it can look prettier per say but moddifiying it is worse I think (only my opinion) sculpts are better cause you can have smaller peices andsperetly color or adjust them more. Plus alot of content creators can do wonders with prims and sculpts but not mesh and some of those that can aren't able to rig a mesh. Plus sometimes a mesh jumps least in sl and I saw this happen in a game as well. clothing is a pain and if you don't have permissions you can't do alot. with prims and sculpts you can mix and match to some extent sometimes creating alot of things. I still see creators doing wonderfull things with both prims and sculpts in sl and yes some of those things I think would be harder if not imposible to do with mesh but that is again my personal opinion. I am not putting down mesh or sculpts alot can be done but there are alot of people who just either don't have the skill or the software and alot of poeple that like to customize (alot more then the sliders can do) their avatars this may not even be an issue but since so little info is out there people are teying to get an idea what it will be like. at this stage it''s not like linden labs has said "What would you like to see in this new platform"

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Whatever LL's new world will be like, it HAS to have in-world building tools. If it does not, it will likely fail like all the others that tried going all external tool sets. "Prims" are what makes SL great, because anyone can quickly whip up some basic shapes for any purpose. In-world object modification like linking and unlinking are what make SL so flexible. If that'd be gone... I for one won't use the new platform as creativity is THE major attraction of SL for me.

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