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Jo Yardley

Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

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Zena Zemlja wrote:


Gavin Hird wrote:


Zena Zemlja wrote:

I have to agree with you on this. Not everyone has the last new high tech computer. Making a new high tech world will not make them buy one. They simply will not be able to afford it. 

This is not about developing high tech, but moving into the mobile space where all the action and big revenue are these days. 

Whatever you call it, the point is that not everyone now using sl will have a computer compatible to go there. 

This is a completely false assumption. It would actually be more accurate to say that every1 that can run SL right now, will also be able to run the new SL. There is nothing at all about any new SL that would push any1 to not be able to use it. If anything, the new SL should be less taxing on your PC. Of course, there will be a few exceptions. Heck, I have 2 main pcs, and I don't even use my beast PC to work in SL, I just use my old PC. That same PC also runs Watch Dogs, at Ultra, on a Nvidia 650 TI card. I keep my beast PC open from much more complex tasks.

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There will be nothing to be ported over. Everything other than a static prop won't work as intended, and even that is questionable. How would any creator be able to support content which took years to create in the first place?

They would be working years only on "fixing" things they don't broke.

New World > New Content > New People. The new world is not meant for SL oldbies. That's why it's another world, and not SL 2.0.

LL can't come up with all the details until to the public beta anyway. Or they will give up on the advantage to start the race from pole position. Giving competitors the chance to make there product slighty different, more appealing, and maybe even launching sooner than LL's next VW. Be it tech details, business model or what ever.

 

Patience you must have young padawan.

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One thing i find very strange is if you believe LL figures on new residents joining SL, what is it about 80,000 a month?

why does the number of people online even at peak times never goes up it rarely goes over 56,000!

80,000 x 12 months = 960.000, but there are still under 60,000 logged in at peak times

there were 50,000 online in early 2008

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Phoebe Avro wrote:

One thing i find very strange is if you believe LL figures on new residents joining SL, what is it about 80,000 a month?

why does the number of people online even at peak times never goes up it rarely goes over 56,000!

 

Because most of the new signups turn on the doorstep. I tiny percentage stays and there are comparatively the same number of long term residents that leave every month. So overall number of active users are pretty constant.

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LaskyaClaren wrote:


Qie Niangao wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:


LaskyaClaren wrote:


But I agree completely with Qie that anyone who is selling content that 
could 
be ported over to the new VW and isn't informing their customers that they don't plan to permit that happening is, at the very least, being deeply unethical. Consumers (and this includes other creators buying components for their own creations) deserve full transparency on this issue; anything else would represent underhanded behaviour on the part of the seller, to put it mildly.

Excuse me! Unethical! Are creators in SL somehow slaves to the public? We have no say in the matter? Or we are Unethical? Maybe, just maybe, we are the only 1's actually thinking here. We don't even know what will be compatible, for sure. Just because LL creates a new world, creators are now obligated to sell there? Again, or we are Unethical? We know almost nothing about this new world, yet creators are being expected to take a stand 1 way or the other. It's nonsense. Despite the fact that SL is going nowhere, irrational people are going to try and make creators feel guilty if they don't waste their time in a new world. The creators no longer have any choices now? We are all now slaves to the public, because we made the mistake of trying to create good products in the original SL?

I think people thinking this way might want to check their own ethics before they go demonizing others.

 

The point I was trying to make was a bit more subtle than that. It was all about a particular subclass of creators who, by virtue of geographic accident, might be able to renege on their original TOS commitments and deny customers use of what they bought, whereas all other creators would still be bound by the licenses they granted by agreeing to the ToS.

Somewhere in one of these many threads, I mentioned that I actually see how some creators might reasonably want to replace content in SL2, taking advantage of the new platform's technical advantages (and preserving their reputations, competitive standing, etc). So I'm not sure that all creators content should be forcibly ported to the new platform. I am quite sure, however, that creators from certain particular nations should not get a special exemption from terms to which they agreed and under which their content was licensed to customers.

Yep, just so. I should have been clearer that I don't mean to suggest that creators should be forced to permit their creations to be ported over. I actually don't think they should.

But they 
do
need to be upfront about their intentions in this regard -- at least, once we are clearer on what actually will be transferable from one VW to the other.

There is a big difference between a willing and unwilling slave.

Actually, how it should work is that content creators that mistakenly thinks something can be ported over, should iladvisedly tells their customers, something they don't know will be true. Every1 else, that is more wise about the whole subject, should not say a thing until they know for sure.

From my standpoint, all of this talk is ridiculous. Why? Because I know that without a crapload of work, nothing in SL can be ported over. Mesh is the best bet that can be ported over easily. Beyond that, it doesn't make any sense at all. That being the case, LL shouldn't even port over meshes, as we can all do that ourselves. It's more than likely that we'll want to change some aspect of that mesh to better fit the new world.

As for customers that have purchased full perm content, most lisenses are only for that platform, and any new content, will not be the same content as what was sold in SL. The merchant has no obligation to transfer that license to the new SL. That being said, there might be cases where the creator decides it is favorable to extend the license. This is completely up to the creator.

As a creator, I do not want, nor do I need any content to be ported over from the old SL. It just won't hold water in the new world. I would prefer that LL not spend even 1 minute considering porting anything over, as this will hamper development of the new grid. I would prefer that we have 2 worlds, not 1 world with 2 grids. That is the only way that both worlds can stably function. I would rather both worlds compete against each other, and let the best plaform win. Even better, for both LL an residents, is for both platforms to win, and go on for many more years.

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arton Rotaru wrote:

There will be nothing to be ported over. Everything other than a static prop won't work as intended, and even that is questionable. How would any creator be able to support content which took years to create in the first place?

They would be working years only on "fixing" things they don't broke.

New World > New Content > New People. The new world is not meant for SL oldbies. That's why it's another world, and not SL 2.0.

LL can't come up with all the details until to the public beta anyway. Or they will give up on the advantage to start the race from pole position. Giving competitors the chance to make there product slighty different, more appealing, and maybe even launching sooner than LL's next VW. Be it tech details, business model or what ever.

 

Patience you must have young padawan.

Didn't say it was possible, but only that, given the permission options listed in the post I replied to, that, as a consumer, I'd prefer to have my old stuff back, of course. I've pretty much written off the chance of that happening, though.

As for not letting the cat out of the bag yet, well... maybe Ebbe really shouldn't have then. Now SL2 is like Schroedinger's cat: half in the bag, half out of it: yet no one knows exactly what state that cat is currently in until SL2 is an actual reality.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

There is a big difference between a willing and unwilling slave.


Ok, maybe we should stop right here.

A "willing" vs. an "unwillilng" slave? For real?

 

slave, n.1 (and adj.)

Pronunciation: /sleɪv/

1.
a.
One who is the property of, and
entirely subject to
, another person, whether by capture, purchase, or birth; a servant
completely divested of freedom and personal rights
.

In what part of that definition (from the OED) do you see any suggestion of "will" on the part of the slave?

However, in the interest of staying on topic, we'll pass over your will-ful distortion of the English language without further comment. ;-)

 


Medhue Simoni wrote:

Actually, how it should work is that content creators that mistakenly thinks something can be ported over, should iladvisedly tells their customers, something they don't know will be true. Every1 else, that is more wise about the whole subject, should not say a thing until they know for sure.

From my standpoint, all of this talk is ridiculous. Why? Because I know that without a crapload of work, nothing in SL can be ported over. Mesh is the best bet that can be ported over easily. Beyond that, it doesn't make any sense at all. That being the case, LL shouldn't even port over meshes, as we can all do that ourselves. It's more than likely that we'll want to change some aspect of that mesh to better fit the new world.

As for customers that have purchased full perm content, most lisenses are only for that platform, and any new content, will not be the same content as what was sold in SL. The merchant has no obligation to transfer that license to the new SL. That being said, there might be cases where the creator decides it is favorable to extend the license. This is completely up to the creator.

As a creator, I do not want, nor do I need any content to be ported over from the old SL. It just won't hold water in the new world. I would prefer that LL not spend even 1 minute considering porting anything over, as this will hamper development of the new grid. I would prefer that we have 2 worlds, not 1 world with 2 grids. That is the only way that both world can stably function. I would rather both world compete against each other, and let the best plaform win.

 

Otherwise, it may surprise you to hear that I agree pretty much fully with everything you say here. :-)

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The execution of this "announcement" was without question incredibly unprofessionell. It's not surprising though, because that's what we are used to with LL anyway. :matte-motes-big-grin: It show's a little that Ebbe is rather new on board as well.

On the other hand, I have some kind of sympathy for this kind of imperfection, and failure as well. Makes it more human.:matte-motes-bashful-cute-2:

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kiramanell wrote:


LaskyaClaren wrote:

LL permits the transfer of any content, regardless of perms, by anyone, so long as it can be handled by the code base of the new VW.
This probably leaves most consumers happy, but means forgoing the bonanza of buying by new residents that would result from nice, empty inventories. 


As someone with an inventory, I highly prefer the above option. It wouldn't be a true full-perm thingy, btw; more like a meta-perm, to get stuff exported from SL1, and imported into SL2 (encrypted, for instance, so it can't enter Open Sim or something).

As for 'foregoing the bonanza of buying by new residents,' well, much like you need money to make money, you need sales to make sales. Which is to say,
you basically already need to have a half-way flourishing world in order for ppl to feel confident enough to buy stuff in. Being able to import your old inventory could be just the ticket to that.

This is an interesting point; you may be right. How many years did it take SL 1.0 to really assume some critical mass? 2 years? 3 years?

I do suspect, however, that this is mostly academic: we know that prims, scripts and animations won't work on the new grid, and from what I've heard, mesh will not work very well without tweaking and upgrading. The actual amount of content that will even work in the new VW is likely to be very small, and may look like crap even if it can be imported.

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Mony Lindman wrote:

Think a little... the only reason why we still hear that wondefull sound of money comming in is that most users dont know yet about this sh.. Should we and/or LL start informing everybody (maybe on the login window..) that most of what they buy from now on (not to mention what they already bought) will not be transfered in the new world, then we wont hear that wonderfull sound of mony comming in too often anymore, we will lose money .. and if we lose money , LL loses money .. and if LL loses money guess who gets fired 
:)

It's an interesting question.

From LL's perspective, it would have been better, I would have thought, to have kept this hush-hush for as long as possible. I still don't really understand why it was leaked when it was. A n00b mistake on Ebbe's part?

At some point, LL will have an ethical duty to announce all of this more widely. I don't know if it need be done using a log-in message, but at the very least there should be a lengthy and informative blog article on it (which, bizarrely, there still isn't).

For probably 90% of SL residents, who are relatively casual users of the platform without much if any long-term financial commitment, this won't matter. The remaining 10% already know, or will find out quickly enough by word of mouth. Anyone who does have a major financial commitment here -- as a landowner or merchant -- should probably be trying to keep themselves up-to-date about what's going on anyway.

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LaskyaClaren wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

There is a big difference between a willing and unwilling slave.


Ok, maybe we should stop right here.

A "willing" vs. an "unwillilng" slave? For real?

 

slave, n.1 (and adj.)

Pronunciation
: /sleɪv/

1.
a.
One who is the property of, and
entirely subject to
, another person, whether by capture, purchase, or birth; a servant
completely divested of freedom and personal rights
.

In what part of that definition (from the 
OED
) do you see 
any 
suggestion of "will" on the part of the slave?

However, in the interest of staying on topic, we'll pass over your 
will
-ful distortion of the English language without further comment. ;-)

 

Medhue Simoni wrote:

Actually, how it should work is that content creators that mistakenly thinks something can be ported over, should iladvisedly tells their customers, something they don't know will be true. Every1 else, that is more wise about the whole subject, should not say a thing until they know for sure.

From my standpoint, all of this talk is ridiculous. Why? Because I know that without a crapload of work, nothing in SL can be ported over. Mesh is the best bet that can be ported over easily. Beyond that, it doesn't make any sense at all. That being the case, LL shouldn't even port over meshes, as we can all do that ourselves. It's more than likely that we'll want to change some aspect of that mesh to better fit the new world.

As for customers that have purchased full perm content, most lisenses are only for that platform, and any new content, will not be the same content as what was sold in SL. The merchant has no obligation to transfer that license to the new SL. That being said, there might be cases where the creator decides it is favorable to extend the license. This is completely up to the creator.

As a creator, I do not want, nor do I need any content to be ported over from the old SL. It just won't hold water in the new world. I would prefer that LL not spend even 1 minute considering porting anything over, as this will hamper development of the new grid. I would prefer that we have 2 worlds, not 1 world with 2 grids. That is the only way that both world can stably function. I would rather both world compete against each other, and let the best plaform win.

 

Otherwise, it may surprise you to hear that I agree pretty much fully with everything you say here. :-)

 

By adding a word, like willing, it changes the meaning, hence why we use words. Yes, to be fair, I implied the willing part, but I thought that was a reasonable assumption.

My annoyance has to do with speculating about things that can not be assumed, and then advising creators on those false assumptions. The worst thing a creator could do, at this point, is to tell customers something they do not know to be true. That could actually be very unethical, not the other way around.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

There is a big difference between a willing and unwilling slave.

Actually, how it should work is that content creators that mistakenly thinks something can be ported over, should iladvisedly tells their customers, something they don't know will be true. Every1 else, that is more wise about the whole subject, should not say a thing until they know for sure.

From my standpoint, all of this talk is ridiculous. Why? Because I know that without a crapload of work, nothing in SL can be ported over. Mesh is the best bet that can be ported over easily. Beyond that, it doesn't make any sense at all. That being the case, LL shouldn't even port over meshes, as we can all do that ourselves. It's more than likely that we'll want to change some aspect of that mesh to better fit the new world.

As for customers that have purchased full perm content, most lisenses are only for that platform, and any new content, will not be the same content as what was sold in SL. The merchant has no obligation to transfer that license to the new SL. That being said, there might be cases where the creator decides it is favorable to extend the license. This is completely up to the creator.

As a creator, I do not want, nor do I need any content to be ported over from the old SL. It just won't hold water in the new world. I would prefer that LL not spend even 1 minute considering porting anything over, as this will hamper development of the new grid. I would prefer that we have 2 worlds, not 1 world with 2 grids. That is the only way that both worlds can stably function. I would rather both worlds compete against each other, and let the best plaform win. Even better, for both LL an residents, is for both platforms to win, and go on for many more years.

As an individual creator you may prefer that, and I see some value in the position, but it's up to LL what does and doesn't port over automatically, and frankly, they'd be fools to do anything but port everything they can, even the old laggy ugly stuff. There's a great deal of whining and moaning about how SL isn't as shiny as the Next New Video Game, but it doesn't matter: LL's one big competitive differentiator is a decade's worth of user generated content. That content, regardless of quality, will determine the fate of SL2.

It's true that, animations, avatar system-texture fashion, and scripts are three areas where ported content is likely to be unsatisfactory at best. Then there's mesh, and if we make an honest assessment, the vast majority of SL mesh currently is simply junk: ultra-high-vertex-count rips from games nobody ever cared about. And sculpts are (not always, but usually) very inefficient with their use of vertices, too.

So, individually, any one piece of content or any one creator's content would probably be best left behind. But taken as a whole, we and LL will benefit from having as much as practical of it available right away when BetterWorld opens. I think, without it, the chances of BetterWorld ever making it out of beta are greatly reduced. (And that would not improve prospects of SL Classic surviving any longer.)

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kiramanell wrote:


arton Rotaru wrote:

There will be nothing to be ported over. Everything other than a static prop won't work as intended, and even that is questionable. How would any creator be able to support content which took years to create in the first place?

They would be working years only on "fixing" things they don't broke.

New World > New Content > New People. The new world is not meant for SL oldbies. That's why it's another world, and not SL 2.0.

LL can't come up with all the details until to the public beta anyway. Or they will give up on the advantage to start the race from pole position. Giving competitors the chance to make there product slighty different, more appealing, and maybe even launching sooner than LL's next VW. Be it tech details, business model or what ever.

 

Patience you must have young padawan.

Didn't say it was possible, but only that, given the permission options listed in the post I replied to, that, as a consumer, I'd prefer to have my old stuff back, of course. I've pretty much written off the chance of that happening, though.

As for not letting the cat out of the bag yet, well... maybe Ebbe really shouldn't have then. Now SL2 is like Schroedinger's cat: half in the bag, half out of it: yet no one knows exactly what state that cat is currently in until SL2 is an actual reality.

The only real issue here is content...whether we will be able to bring our content with us into the New World.  Talking as a consumer it looks like very little will carry over.  For creators the picture may be a little different.  With various levels of tweaking, depending on the category, more should move.

If I were doing this, I would lay out the basic foundation with out any consideration for backward compatibility and only after I had that would I consider what could be done to enable that compatibility.

As far as "WHAT" this world will be, based on Ebbe's statements, ".....as long as it is legal, etc,"  I don't see any plans to change things.*  The plan is to give us a brand new fresh canvas to paint on, no different than what people were given when SL first went live.  From the very beginning, that is all LL has ever done.  Given us the canvas and the paint brushes to create "Our World, Our Imagination."**

 

*I'm not naive here.  I am aware of things like "no plans to merge the Teen Grid" that afterwards happened.  They could suddenly say, "Only PG is allowed here."  On the other hand they could say, "This is all Adult land now."  But for the moment I'm taking what Ebbe has said at face value.

 

**I'm also aware that you can control what can be created by limiting the tools you give people.  But SLer's have always seemed to do pretty good at working their way around this.

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Qie Niangao wrote:


Medhue Simoni wrote:

There is a big difference between a willing and unwilling slave.

Actually, how it should work is that content creators that mistakenly thinks something can be ported over, should iladvisedly tells their customers, something they don't know will be true. Every1 else, that is more wise about the whole subject, should not say a thing until they know for sure.

From my standpoint, all of this talk is ridiculous. Why? Because I know that without a crapload of work, nothing in SL can be ported over. Mesh is the best bet that can be ported over easily. Beyond that, it doesn't make any sense at all. That being the case, LL shouldn't even port over meshes, as we can all do that ourselves. It's more than likely that we'll want to change some aspect of that mesh to better fit the new world.

As for customers that have purchased full perm content, most lisenses are only for that platform, and any new content, will not be the same content as what was sold in SL. The merchant has no obligation to transfer that license to the new SL. That being said, there might be cases where the creator decides it is favorable to extend the license. This is completely up to the creator.

As a creator, I do not want, nor do I need any content to be ported over from the old SL. It just won't hold water in the new world. I would prefer that LL not spend even 1 minute considering porting anything over, as this will hamper development of the new grid. I would prefer that we have 2 worlds, not 1 world with 2 grids. That is the only way that both worlds can stably function. I would rather both worlds compete against each other, and let the best plaform win. Even better, for both LL an residents, is for both platforms to win, and go on for many more years.

As an individual creator you may prefer that, and I see some value in the position, but it's up to LL what does and doesn't port over automatically, and frankly, they'd be fools to do anything but port everything they can, even the old laggy ugly stuff. There's a great deal of whining and moaning about how SL isn't as shiny as the Next New Video Game, but it doesn't matter: LL's one big competitive differentiator is a decade's worth of user generated content. That content, regardless of quality, will determine the fate of SL2.

It's true that, animations, avatar system-texture fashion, and scripts are three areas where ported content is likely to be unsatisfactory at best. Then there's mesh, and if we make an honest assessment, the vast majority of SL mesh currently is simply junk: ultra-high-vertex-count rips from games nobody ever cared about. And sculpts are (not always, but usually) very inefficient with their use of vertices, too.

So, individually, any one piece of content or any one creator's content would probably be best left behind. But taken as a whole, we and LL will benefit from having as much as practical of it available right away when BetterWorld opens. I think, without it, the chances of BetterWorld ever making it out of beta are greatly reduced. (And that would 
not
improve prospects of SL Classic surviving any longer.)

It probably won't be a choice between things coming over automatically and things not coming over at all. Everything in the new world will probably be different as far as file structure but everthing in both worlds be basically the same in a general sense: objects will still be 3D arrays of textured polygons; avatars will still be textured meshes rigged to some sort of bone structure; animations will still move those bones.

There will probably be a sort of one-way import/export procedure for a lot of things but they will have to be consciously taken through that system - for example, a house built of textured prims should be able to be exported as a mesh.  Having to make a conscious effort will give people the ability to see how much of their stuff is actually, well, crap, and the export procedure could reveal exactly how bad as far as land impact many old things are.

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Wasted time, because pretty much everything is "crap" in comparision with todays game industry standards. :matte-motes-big-grin:

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As an individual creator you may prefer that, and I see some value in the position, but it's up to LL what does and doesn't port over automatically, and frankly, they'd be fools to do anything but port everything they can, even the old laggy ugly stuff. There's a great deal of whining and moaning about how SL isn't as shiny as the Next New Video Game, but it doesn't matter: LL's one big competitive differentiator is a decade's worth of user generated content. That content, regardless of quality, will determine the fate of SL2.

It's true that, animations, avatar system-texture fashion, and scripts are three areas where ported content is likely to be unsatisfactory at best. Then there's mesh, and if we make an honest assessment, the vast majority of SL mesh currently is simply junk: ultra-high-vertex-count rips from games nobody ever cared about. And sculpts are (not always, but usually) very inefficient with their use of vertices, too.

So, individually, any one piece of content or any one creator's content would probably be best left behind. But taken as a whole, we and LL will benefit from having as much as practical of it available right away when BetterWorld opens. I think, without it, the chances of BetterWorld ever making it out of beta are greatly reduced. (And that would 
not
improve prospects of SL Classic surviving any longer.)

Now while there MAY be a bunch of bad (and illegal) mesh on the grid there also some fantastic things that are very well made and efficient so throwing out the baby with the bath water is not the best plan.

What I HAD been thinking bout lately was the August TOS which along with giving LL many new rights had us SWEAR, VOW, PROMISE etc to only upload items that we had full rights to upload. So things made completely by content creators on their computers or ACTUAL public domain (at least this seems to be what most attorneys concluded). I am sure that all that ripped content wasn't ONLY around before the TOS change but it would be very easy (and I said this all along back the the TOS Talks days) to filter out ONLY items made after that date. And by the time porting happens even some of those things would be very old.

In effect that puts the illegalities on the uploadee who by signing the TOS said they would not upload content other than things they created or had full copyright etc etc.

And I do agree that porting over everything portable automatically would likely be the only way to keep the populous of SL1 very interested in SL2.

 

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Qie Niangao wrote:



As an individual creator you may prefer that, and I see some value in the position, but it's up to LL what does and doesn't port over automatically, and frankly, they'd be fools to do anything but port everything they can, even the old laggy ugly stuff. There's a great deal of whining and moaning about how SL isn't as shiny as the Next New Video Game, but it doesn't matter: LL's one big competitive differentiator is a decade's worth of user generated content. That content, regardless of quality, will determine the fate of SL2.

It's true that, animations, avatar system-texture fashion, and scripts are three areas where ported content is likely to be unsatisfactory at best. Then there's mesh, and if we make an honest assessment, the vast majority of SL mesh currently is simply junk: ultra-high-vertex-count rips from games nobody ever cared about. And sculpts are (not always, but usually) very inefficient with their use of vertices, too.

So, individually, any one piece of content or any one creator's content would probably be best left behind. But taken as a whole, we and LL will benefit from having as much as practical of it available right away when BetterWorld opens. I think, without it, the chances of BetterWorld ever making it out of beta are greatly reduced. (And that would 
not
improve prospects of SL Classic surviving any longer.)

Don't get me wrong, I understand why so many think that, porting as much over as possible, is good. IMHO, this is why SL will die, because people think/want Betterworld to be SL, when it will not be. The chances that the new world will be, even remotely, like current SL, I think is very much a HUGELY misguided perception. This is a testament to SL, not a put down. I personally think SL is far too complex for LL to even come close to replicating in any way. I think this Betterworld, will be completely and totally different. Of course, some things, depending on what is possible, will be very much like SL, especially since many of the same people will be there. I think it is almost sad that so many think it is even possible to replace SL. Maybe they do not value SL as much as I do. The day the REAL SL ends, will be a day I will be deeply hurt. IT CAN'T SIMPLY BE REPLACED!

By demanding that SL content work in the new world, you are diminishing it's value in the REAL SL. As if anyworld will do, just give me my content. Every bit of talk that goes on and on about porting stuff over, is really a discussion about abandoning the REAL SL. I do not want to leave. I'm proud of what I've done here. There is no reason at all that SL need to decline in any way. LL said they will keep it open as long as it is viable, and they would be obviously dumb not to. So, it is here, as long as we want it to be. If your business model was viable 2 weeks ago, then it is still viable today. A new world doesn't really affect that, unless you want that to happen. It's about what you want.

As a creator, I will always have to spend the most time creating for whatever platform is making me the most profits. I would be neglecting my responsibilities as a father, employer, and business owner to not run my business in the smartest way. That said, SL does have more universal 3D content now. This means that, no matter what I make for any other world that I ever create for, including HF, I can also bring it into SL. Why the F not? It's easy. Even animation. With the current tools today, conversion over for me is an afternoon. Maybe a whole day to convert, and then assemble in SL, and I'm talking about animation sets that cover every movement for a character. 100s of animation in the set. SL will very much still go on, and that says alot that it has come this far, and be compatible with the external tools being used today.

Allow me to briefly put forth a scenario that I see happening. LL announces beta for new world, open only to creators. Those creators go in, and if they are worth anything, they will pretty much say LL did it all wrong, lol. Seriously tho, it will have major issues that only creators will find. LL realises that they will never meet their release goal, and they pull back. 1 year later, new world is still in mid beta, and still lacking anything even close to seeming like the REAL SL. We all see the potential tho, and keep banging our heads against it. What comes out in the end, will likely be a creators paradise, or I very much hope so. What it will not be, is the real SL. And many real, actual, users, and lovers, of the REAL SL, will realise what I am saying here. The REAL SL, gets a much wanted/needed tier reduction, because LL is profitable in both worlds. SL grows and flourishes because of this. SL changes, thanks too the new world. Now, SL is more centered around community, groups, events, who knows how it will change, as it will be the people here that changes it. It will become what they want it to be. The people in the new world will make it what they want it to be. Creators, will be active it what ever worlds they can add value to, or the 1's they just simply prefer. EVERYONE WINS!

 

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Whirly Fizzle wrote:


Mony Lindman wrote:

I wanted to participate in this viewer discussion so i dared to log in today via the last version of the official viewer. For the first time after 2 or 3 years .. at that time i wanted to use it but didnt succed to stay in longer than a few minutes.. it drove me crazy..

Now i am still in it as i write in order to study it but i cant promiss i will stay too long because .. it drives me crazy ..

Am I blind or there is no setting where i can tell my head or at least my eyes to no longer follow the mouse? Typical noob question, i know but in this viewer i am noob and in FS i never had this problem.
 

You're not blind. There is no way to do this on the official viewer, not even with a debug setting.

 

Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Am I stupid or is this a bug or.. is this the way it was conceived that in order to wear a new hair i must first detach the old otherwise the function wear acts like add ? But only by attachments ..
 

That's actually a new bug on the latest current release that only surfaced after the AIS3 rolled out to the main grid. Any TPV that has merged and released AIS3 in their viewer will now have the same bug on any region running AIS3. No TPV (apart from maybe CoolVL Viewer) has an AIS3 release out yet so wont have this bug.

 

 

- "Wear" Behaves Erratically For Attachments on Same Point

 

Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Am I stupid or are they stupid to not save different login names and passwords although save password is checked and aso the option multiple viewers ? Each time i try it with an alt i must type again the login data and when i go back to my main avatar i must type it again coz it keeps only the last one and doesnt make a list to chose from like "normal" viewers ..
 

The official viewer does not have this feature

 

 

Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Ah.. and it looks like each alt must set up his viewer preferences coz they are not taken from the avatar that was loged in before..
 

The official viewer behaves the same as TPV's in this respect and you shouldn't see any difference.

 

 

Some settings are global and some are per-account only.

If you are losing
all
your setting changes when relogging on an alt you are probably having a silent crash at logout.

Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Am I blind or you cant search inventory by creator name ? Not to mention what not evn FS has but would be needed : search by permissions
 

You cannot search by creator name or UUID on the official viewer.

 

 

It has been requested:
- As a user, I want to be able to search my inventory by Creator

 

Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Am I blind or the button for notifications can not be moved at the bottom of the screen?
 

The official viewer does not have this feature

 

 

Mony Lindman wrote:

 

I found the "set default upload permissions" but i cant find a place where i can set default permissions for objects i create. Am I blind or .. is it so?
 

This feature actually just got added by one of the opensource contributers - Jonathan Yap.

 

 

You can find it in the latest Snowstorm-RC viewer

Allow setting of default permissions on creation of objects, clothing, scripts, notecards, etc.

 

Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Does it really have so little options in Prefernces or am i blind and dont see something on which i could click to get more ?
 

Hum - no, thats all you get  :smileylol:

 

 

Mony Lindman wrote:

 

Is it normal that it loads the inventory again whenever i log in , which in my case , by over 300k items takes ages ?
 

No, this isn't normal unless you are having silent logout crashes.

 

 

Mony Lindman wrote:

 

And .. really no copy/paste function for object size and rotation values ?
 

The official viewer does not have this feature.

It has been requested though.

- Feature Request: Please add Copy/Paste buttons to the Edit window numeric fields for Position/Size/Rotation

Mony Lindman wrote:

 

 The official viewer takes less.. BUT put a mesh body on and try to edit the shape behind it .. your whole body VIBRATES by each change ..

 

Hmm not sure what's going on there.

If the mesh body has joint offsets then its possibly a known bug on the latest AIS3 viewer which breaks your shape in nasty ways

 

That "vibration" is no more but i found a few more things that are not possible:

I cant copy/paste worn items

I cant copy/paste links

The option "paste as link" dosnt exist in the right click menu

Right click > edit in inventory on a worn (and full permissions) attachment is not possible

- and if that attachment is somehow invisible and/or hidden inside your body you have no way to edit it

- and if that attachment is mesh , there is no right click> edit either in inventory or on the mesh itself

How do you edit full permission mesh items in this viewer ? Rez them ?

OK i understand that this viewer was supposed to be "simple" so that newbies can use it , and a newbie maybe doesn't need to edit mesh by all means or to copy/paste object parameters, but .. why should a newbie not want to copy/paste worn items or links , why should a newbie not be allowed to create links at all, why should a newbie move his head in all directions following the mouse till he gets dizzy ? I really dont get it ...

Of course the LL viewer developer team is made of coders who never log into SL and who can only see code, so like in Matrix.. but does this team not have also a leader, someone who tells them what to code and what not ? And should at least this person not login from time to time and compare his in world experience in different viewers? And should this person not have at least minimal skills in "logical thinking".. ?

 

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Yeah, putting the puzzle together piece by piece, it looks more like the new platform is what Rod Humble had in mind focusing more on game like experiences. This is where Desura comes into play as well.

Instead of having indie developers making all their games as an individual platform, they could develop the games on one giant playground.

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arton Rotaru wrote:

Yeah, putting the puzzle together piece by piece, it looks more like the new platform is what Rod Humble had in mind focusing more on game like experiences. This is where Desura comes into play as well.

Instead of having indie developers making all their games as an individual platform, they could develop the games on one giant playground.

I am not against that. It might be very fun, and profitable. Well, as long as I get the tools. We keep talking about them, but it's not really a debatable things. We either get all the universal tools that all games are using now, or we do not. I don't see how you can leave any out and say it is better. I'm speaking from the view of content/avatars.

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Certainly! It could be fun and profitable, and would be different in many ways than good old SL.

And yes, we pretty much know what the answer of alot of the neat things we want will be:

"It's on the list, but not in initial release. ":matte-motes-big-grin:

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arton Rotaru wrote:

Certainly! It could be fun and profitable, and would be different in many ways than good old SL.

And yes, we pretty much know what the answer of alot of the neat things we want will be:

"It's on the list, but not in initial release. ":matte-motes-big-grin:

Note to LL: Take a close look at how Unity3D does content. Don't copy, cause their interior tools are a bit of a mess to me, but they really opened up the FBX format, only things I can't seem to do is get animations with blend shape morphs animated too, but I can do that inside Unity.

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It's not all about technology ... I guess most users don't even care about the technical details discussed here. I would like to ask Ebbe about:

-- Facial expressions while we talk ... will that be possible?

-- Real hand gestures? The feeling of presence is crucial in a VW.

-- other input devices besides mouse and keyboard?

-- Connection to social media? RL identities, levels of anonymity, multiple accounts?

-- Efficient separation of adult content so the world becomes relevant for RL companies to invest in? Maybe even create 2 products?

-- A different name than "Second Life"? "Second Life" implies an "alternate, secondary reality for the socially inept" which makes many people stay away from it ...

-- Advertisement strategies?

-- Game-like content to keep users engaged?

Thank you!

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 - How do I find my keyboard when wearing the Oculus?
- Can I still see the menu and send notices and IMs? Open the worldmap? Sort inventory?
- Do I have at least an option to view/check my avie from 3rd person perspective?
- How do I make photos?
- Can hubby and me huddle together in front of the oculus and watch videos when I'm not in world? I mean when it costs 200-300 bucks I can only afford either or.
- or is that thing only for gaming? What if I'm not in SL to shoot anybody?

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Niecia Davi wrote:

 - How do I find my keyboard when wearing the Oculus?

 

- Do I have at least an option to view/check my avie from 3rd person perspective?

 

 

• Even proficient touch typist say that it is awkward and difficult to use the keyboard when totally blindfolded - what Oculus exactly is. My view is that nobody will use Oculus continuously for hours and hours totally disconnected from the real world. Oculus could be awesome for short periods of time though.

• It will not be compulsory to use Oculus, the world will function perfectly on our normal screens.

 

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