Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

[Qie Niangao]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

By demanding that SL content work in the new world, you are diminishing it's value in the REAL SL. As if anyworld will do, just give me my content. Every bit of talk that goes on and on about porting stuff over, is really a discussion about abandoning the REAL SL.

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I guess I need to again state that I'm not at all arguing that the new platform should be held back technologically in order to port over SL Classic content. Introducing an incompatible upgrade in platform cannot be cost effective more than once a decade at most, so it must not be a half-way measure.

But if they don't leverage SL's user-generated content, I just don't see why we should expect LL to have much advantage over anybody else thinking of making a virtual world -- and there have been scores of those over the years, all kicked to the curb. Other than all that user-generated content, what objective reason would we have to think something new from Linden Lab would fare any better? (Especially not now, when cheap hardware is making "VR experts" of every ex-COBOL programmer on the subcontinent.)

There's plenty of video-game envy in SL, and there always has been, so a new platform that leaves everything behind for yet another glorified sandbox game might appeal to many currently in SL and plenty of others. That still may be a good market, and maybe LL can succeed in it, but personally I'd put long odds on that.

[Phoebe Avro]

There are far better options than the rift some being like larger sunglasses

[Pamela Galli]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

By demanding that SL content work in the new world, you are diminishing it's value in the REAL SL. As if anyworld will do, just give me my content. Every bit of talk that goes on and on about porting stuff over, is really a discussion about abandoning the REAL SL.

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I guess I need to again state that I'm not at all arguing that the new platform should be held back technologically in order to port over SL Classic content. Introducing an incompatible upgrade in platform cannot be cost effective more than once a decade at most, so it must not be a half-way measure.

But if they don't leverage SL's user-generated content, I just don't see why we should expect LL to have much advantage over anybody else thinking of making a virtual world -- and there have been scores of those over the years, all kicked to the curb. Other than all that user-generated content, what objective reason would we have to think something new from Linden Lab would fare any better? (Especially not now, when cheap hardware is making "VR experts" of every ex-COBOL programmer on the subcontinent.)

There's plenty of video-game envy in SL, and there always has been, so a new platform that leaves everything behind for yet another glorified sandbox game might appeal to many currently in SL and plenty of others. That still may be a good market, and maybe LL can succeed in it, but personally I'd put long odds on that.

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I remember when Apple went from version 9 (PowerPC) to OSX. Backwards compatibility (ie Rosetta) was a part of it for a number of years. By the time they dropped it, it was up to 10.7.  

[Cathy Foil]

Personally I think the only SL content LL should port over to the new world are is anything your avatar is currently wearing in SL and have it so if you drop a worn item in the new world it doesn't rez on the ground.

See if we could log into SL and then teleport to the new world and have our avatars look the same it would be like teleporting from one island in SL to another island but one that just has different set of rules but also one that has way better graphics and physics performance with little or no lag.

Then as people start to spend more and more time in the new world they will gradually start to rent or buy land there and start to buy items just for the new world.

By doing this LL would leverage the existing servers since what you are wearing from SL is stored on the old SL servers.

At first the new world would be rather small and things to do and see few.  But as time went on and things developed there more and more residents would spend more and more time there and its economy would grow.  This may take several years giving content creators plenty of time to adjust to the new opportunities the new world offers.

This would also mean anytime you felt like visiting places in SL and any old content you have is easily accessible just by teleporting to any location in SL.  Teleporting from one grid to another has already been done years ago by LL.

LL's top priorities should be porting over people SL avatar appearance and keeping lag to a minimum. 

[arton Rotaru]

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Cathy Foil wrote:

 

LL's top priorities should be porting over people SL avatar appearance and keeping lag to a minimum. 

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This is in contradiction already. :matte-motes-tongue:

[Imagin Illyar]

Ebbe has already said that moving from one world to another would require logging in to a different viewer.  This makes sense.  The new virtual world is not just an add-on or an upgrade to SL, it really is a completely different new virtual world.  It will have "radically improved" avatars.  He's also said that nothing from our inventories will be able to be used as is.  Items that will be able to go to the new world will have to be reuploaded by the creator after making tweaks for compatibility.  It really will be like starting over when we get there, we will be able to keep our names and friend's list but we will have to create a new avatar and use starter clothing and accessories until we buy new ones.  I can't wait to see it

[Cathy Foil]

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arton Rotaru wrote:

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Cathy Foil wrote:

 

LL's top priorities should be porting over people SL avatar appearance and keeping lag to a minimum. 

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This is in contradiction already. :matte-motes-tongue:

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Not necessarily since the new world is using new code.  New code can automatically detect scripts that don't need to be running 24/7 or automatically high rez textures at a lower resolution or even perhaps delete automatically vertices that are not visible.  All this would dramatically cut down on lag produced by the avatars.

[Cathy Foil]

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Imagin Illyar wrote:

Ebbe has already said that moving from one world to another would require logging in to a different viewer.  This makes sense.  The new virtual world is not just an add-on or an upgrade to SL, it really is a completely different new virtual world.  It will have "radically improved" avatars.  He's also said that nothing from our inventories will be able to be used as is.  Items that will be able to go to the new world will have to be reuploaded by the creator after making tweaks for compatibility.  It really will be like starting over when we get there, we will be able to keep our names and friend's list but we will have to create a new avatar and use starter clothing and accessories until we buy new ones.  I can't wait to see it

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With all respect to Ebbe he may not be aware that years ago LL did successful experiments with teleporting from one grid to another.  These experiments were not made with just teleporting from grids LL solely owned but to other grids owned by other companies and obviously those grids would not be considered an add-on or upgrade to SL but completely separate from SL.  Kinda like flying from one country to another one in RL.

Yes for those who want to spend a good amount of time in the new world would eventually want to use the radically improved avatars available there.

You also have to remember lllyar that plans for the new world are still in the early stages and I am sure nothing is set in stone.

My hope is that Ebbe is using the discussions here to gather good information and suggestions about how best to make the new world.

[arton Rotaru]

It won't be "you" than anymore anyway.

But I agree, this would be great fun. I see all the fashionitas blogs already with 1 on 1 comparision photos, with their 3 million poly avatars in SL and the auto reduced version in Betterworld. LOL:matte-motes-big-grin:

[Darkness Anubis]

THis is sort of a reply to many thing in this thread and no to any particular post - sorry this forums way of replying is clunky and not intuitive at all.

I was a content creator for years. Textures, animations, animated furniture and prefab buildings. I mostly STOPPED creating about a year after Hurricane Katrina (actually year is foggy but you get the drift). A great chunk of my stopping was a combination of the beginnings of MOCAP animations that I could not compete with, the serious advent of sculptys which I did not have the RL time to figure out(at that time) and people taking my full perm textures and selling them as their own.

I frankly want NONE of my creations to automatically transfer no matter whose inventory they currently reside in for a number of reasons.

1. compared to modern stuff my stuff is horribly crude. I would rather begin anew in SL2 and make decent quality stuff.

2. In the case of my textures.....what is to stop those theives from porting it over and claiming it as theirs even though it WAS my work in SL1?

 

Cold as this sounds I really do believe that it would be wise of LL to make the porting of existant SL1 inventory to SL 2 based on the wish of original content creator. I can only see 2 ways that can happen. We all get a checkbox that says ok to port my creations yes/no or people land in SL2 with empty inventorys and it is up to the creator to port their own stuff over and distribute it. Of the 2 I think the 2nd one is most likely to happen. Less hassel, less work and more money for LL in this as all the creators would have to reupload every dang thing. If they couple this with making it easy for creators to get into beta SL2 will hit live with a ton of content as creators flock to it to get the jump on the competition.

[Mony Lindman]

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Cathy Foil wrote:

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Imagin Illyar wrote:

Ebbe has already said that moving from one world to another would require logging in to a different viewer.  This makes sense.  The new virtual world is not just an add-on or an upgrade to SL, it really is a completely different new virtual world.  It will have "radically improved" avatars.  He's also said that nothing from our inventories will be able to be used as is.  Items that will be able to go to the new world will have to be reuploaded by the creator after making tweaks for compatibility.  It really will be like starting over when we get there, we will be able to keep our names and friend's list but we will have to create a new avatar and use starter clothing and accessories until we buy new ones.  I can't wait to see it

---

With all respect to Ebbe he may not be aware that years ago LL did successful experiments with teleporting from one grid to another.  These experiments were not made with just teleporting from grids LL solely owned but to other grids owned by other companies and obviously those grids would not be considered an add-on or upgrade to SL but completely separate from SL.  Kinda like flying from one country to another on in RL.

Yes for those who want to spend a good amount of time in the new world would eventually want to use the radically improved avatars available there.

You also have to remember lllyar that plans for the new world are still in the early stages and I am sure nothing is set in stone.

My hope is that Ebbe is using the discussions here to gather good information and suggestions about how best to make the new world.

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The experiments you mention were between different but COMPATIBLE grids that use the same platform, like for instance SL , Inworldz , Avination and others within the OS Grid (Open Sim).

And even so it did not really work. An avatar did manage to teleport from one grid to another but without inventory , money balance or identity.

Teleporting betwen SL and the new generation of SL will be impossible because these are 2 totally different platforms.

However, i think about something else since this "announcement" has been made that puts the life of the old SL in danger..

What if all the teckies would put their brains at work together and find a solution to the problem of teleporting WITHIN the Open Sim! With inventory, money ballance and identity.. It cant be that much of a rocket science..

Then the old Second Life woud be part of an even larger community , where people can move betwen different grids, with different (but convertible) currencies, with different prices for land and services , and would always have their inventory wherever they go so what they buy in one of these grids can be used in any other and what they sell in one of these grids can be sold in any other too.. maybe with a lower price if the land for a shop there is cheaper.. I can even imagine currency trading between the grids.. And I can also imagine "adult only" grids as well as underage only grids..

Since all these grids use the same platform and the same viewers there should be no such problems with porting inventories as we have between SL1 and SL2.

And more grids appear all the time and even more will be created when teleporting will be possible and we can even host such a grid on our computer.. that is already possible. Only the teleporting problem must be solved..

In fact this would be really like the REAL WORLD where there are also different countries with diffrent rules, different currencies, different salaries, different prices..

And this world would grow and in this world , Second Life would rule

Hey, Oz Linden .. seriously .. what do you think about this maybe only chance to save the old SL?

[Cathy Foil]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Niecia Davi wrote:

 - How do I find my keyboard when wearing the Oculus?

 

- Do I have at least an option to view/check my avie from 3rd person perspective?

 

 

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• Even proficient touch typist say that it is awkward and difficult to use the keyboard when totally blindfolded - what Oculus exactly is.

My view is that nobody will use Oculus continuously for hours and hours totally disconnected from the real world. Oculus could be awesome for short periods of time though.

• It will not be compulsory to use Oculus, the world will function perfectly on our normal screens.

 

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Personally I think the CastAR system would be more usable for long term use than the Oculus Rift.  It is light weight and you don't have any problems seeing your keyboard or mouse.

For those who haven't heard of CastAR it uses a pair glasses that have passive polarization filters that eliminate cross talk and have small projectors mounted above each eye that project images that reflect off the same kind of surface used for safety strips on clothes and road signs.  This surface reflects back to the projector so each eye sees a different image.  The glasses also have clip ons that projects the image directly into eyes if you want full immersion like the Oculus Rift.

If you decide to use the CastAR without the using the clip ons then the only limit is how much of the reflective cloth material you use around you.  You could cover all the walls in your room like wallpaper and thus the walls of your room would melt away and you would be inside SL.  Of course you would still see yourself and the furniture.  You could even have more than one person in RL in the room with you each wearing their own pair of the CastAR glasses and each see a different perspective just like if you were there in SL.

Best thing about CastAR is there is no nausea from wearing them unlike what many have reported when wearing the Oculus Rift.

Don't get me wrong the Oculus Rift is awesome but I think I rather go for the CastAR especially since it looks like it will be about half the price and still give me the option of wearing the clip ons and going full immersion. 

[Cathy Foil]

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Mony Lindman wrote:

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Cathy Foil wrote:

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Imagin Illyar wrote:

Ebbe has already said that moving from one world to another would require logging in to a different viewer.  This makes sense.  The new virtual world is not just an add-on or an upgrade to SL, it really is a completely different new virtual world.  It will have "radically improved" avatars.  He's also said that nothing from our inventories will be able to be used as is.  Items that will be able to go to the new world will have to be reuploaded by the creator after making tweaks for compatibility.  It really will be like starting over when we get there, we will be able to keep our names and friend's list but we will have to create a new avatar and use starter clothing and accessories until we buy new ones.  I can't wait to see it

---

With all respect to Ebbe he may not be aware that years ago LL did successful experiments with teleporting from one grid to another.  These experiments were not made with just teleporting from grids LL solely owned but to other grids owned by other companies and obviously those grids would not be considered an add-on or upgrade to SL but completely separate from SL.  Kinda like flying from one country to another on in RL.

Yes for those who want to spend a good amount of time in the new world would eventually want to use the radically improved avatars available there.

You also have to remember lllyar that plans for the new world are still in the early stages and I am sure nothing is set in stone.

My hope is that Ebbe is using the discussions here to gather good information and suggestions about how best to make the new world.

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Mony Lidman wrote:

The experiments you mention were between different but COMPATIBLE grids that use the same platform, like for instance SL , Inworldz , Avination and others within the OS Grid (Open Sim).

Cathy's Reply:

If my memory serves me correct the intended goal of the experiment was to allow people to teleport between grids whether owned by LL or not.

Mony Lidman wrote:

And even so it did not really work. An avatar did manage to teleport from one grid to another but without inventory , money balance or identity.

Cathy's Reply:

This is irrelevant.  Just because inventory or money balance didn't make it when teleporting in these early experiments doesn't mean that with further development that it couldn't.

Mony Lidman wrote:

Teleporting betwen SL and the new generation of SL will be impossible because these are 2 totally different platforms.

Cathy's Reply:

This is not true.  The new world would certainly use mesh and textures and skeletons so there is no reason why code for teleporting your avatar as it is in SL to the new world couldn't work.

Mony Lidman wrote:

However, i think about something else since this "announcement" has been made that puts the life of the old SL in danger..

Cathy's Response:

I disagree.  If we can teleport from SL to the new virtual world it would help keep SL alive.  Sooner or later some company will come out with a virtual world that far surpasses SL and the population of SL will drop either quickly or slowly but eventually SL will no longer be viable economically for LL to keep running.  That is the real danger.

Mony Lidman wrote:

What if all the teckies would put their brains at work together and find a solution to the problem of teleporting WITHIN the Open Sim! With inventory, money ballance and identity.. It cant be that much of a rocket science..

Then the old Second Life woud be part of an even larger community , where people can move betwen different grids, with different (but convertible) currencies, with different prices for land and services , and would always have their inventory wherever they go so what they buy in one of these grids can be used in any other and what they sell in one of these grids can be sold in any other too.. maybe with a lower price if the land for a shop there is cheaper.. I can even imagine currency trading between the grids.. And I can also imagine "adult only" grids as well as underage only grids..

Since all these grids use the same platform and the same viewers there should be no such problems with porting inventories as we have between SL1 and SL2.

And more grids appear all the time and even more will be created when teleporting will be possible and we can even host such a grid on our computer.. that is already possible. Only the teleporting problem must be solved..

In fact this would be really like the REAL WORLD where there are also different countries with diffrent rules, different currencies, different salaries, different prices..

And this world would grow and in this world , Second Life would rule

Hey, Oz Linden .. seriously .. what do you think about this maybe only chance to save the old SL?

Cathy's response:

Isn't that exactly what the teleporting experiments were about that I already mentioned?  It is obvious that LL decided it would not be in their best interest to allow SL residents to teleport to grids that LL did not own.

Don't get me wrong it would be cool and maybe the best thing for virtual worlds and residents if we could teleport to other grids not owned solely by LL.

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[ObviousAltIsObvious]

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Mony Lindman wrote:

What if all the teckies would put their brains at work together and find a solution to the problem of teleporting WITHIN the Open Sim! With inventory, money ballance and identity.. It cant be that much of a rocket science..

that exists, it is called the Hypergrid. on the technical side there is support for portable inventory and spacebux. on the business/social/legal side there is much resistance to allowing those features in a meaningful way. grid operators don't necessarily all trust each other not to steal foreign content, or to share in their inworld economies, so often the experience isn't much different from when SL was participating.

[Parrish Ashbourne]

This is starting to look more like a marketing campaign then a leek, interesting that Ebbe started talking about SL2  at the TPV meeting when asked about promoting SL.  only time will tell but his could be the best thing that has happened to SL in a long time.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/27/second-life-social-network-for-virtual-reality/

http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/23/5834742/second-life-studio-working-on-a-spiritual-sequel

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/06/23/linden-lab-confirms-new-virtual-world-incompatible-with-seco...

http://thenextweb.com/dd/2014/06/24/linden-labs-building-new-second-life-scratch-woo-new-users/

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/24/second-life-oculus-rift-virtual-world

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/219609/Linden_Lab_is_building_a_spiritual_sequel_to_Second_Life.p...

http://www.itpro.co.uk/networking/22553/second-life-sequel-in-development

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2014/06/24/second-life-successor-in-development/1

http://segmentnext.com/2014/06/23/second-life-getting-second-uh-life/

 

[ObviousAltIsObvious]

right, it was not a leak. in that TPV meeting, Ebbe said that this was going to come out anyway, because he was talking to the press about the future.

[Mony Lindman]

Hun if you dont understand what SAME PLATFORM means , dont talk .. or at least read the previous posts on this forum to understand ..

[Imagin Illyar]

The thing is, Foil, Ebbe has been very careful with the small bit if information he is giving out on the new virtual world; both to guard against the competition and to be sure not to promise what he can't deliver.  I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't have said that logging in on a different viewer would be necessary to move from the old SL to the new one if the Lab wasn't quite sure this would be the case.  If there were any hope of the teleporting between the two I suspect he would have said TBD as he has on many other prospective questions and suggestions.  It seems to me that if the new virtual world is going to truly be a next-gen technology that the platform would be so very different than the old SL as to preclude teleportation as an option.  

[Mony Lindman]

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ObviousAltIsObvious wrote:

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Mony Lindman wrote:

What if all the teckies would put their brains at work together and find a solution to the problem of teleporting WITHIN the Open Sim! With inventory, money ballance and identity.. It cant be that much of a rocket science..

that exists, it is called the Hypergrid. on the technical side there is support for portable inventory and spacebux. on the business/social/legal side there is much resistance to allowing those features in a meaningful way. grid operators don't necessarily all trust each other not to steal foreign content, or to share in their inworld economies, so often the experience isn't much different from when SL was participating.

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Interesting . I didnt hear about this Hypergrid before.. where is it , whats part of it ? More info please.

[irihapeti]

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Gavin Hird wrote:

For all we know creating a new skin for a completely new uv set can take months and months. 

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 it ate my text. so i do again

+

maybe not. depends on the kits made available

example: The new slink mesh body came out the other day. Came with a skin applier kit. Within a day some skin makers had appliers for their skins in the shops. Within a few days a whole lot more had done same

[ObviousAltIsObvious]

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Mony Lindman wrote:

Interesting . I didnt hear about this Hypergrid before.. where is it , whats part of it ? More info please.

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how it works, participating grids etc. at http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Hypergrid

 

[Mony Lindman]

FYI this is what the CEO of SL already answered about teleporting between SL1 and SL2:

Mony Lindman wrote:

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Ebbe Linden wrote:

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You will certainly be able keep your identity, social network and L$ and you can hop back and forth and decide for yourself where it makes sense to spend your time and energy. 

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How do you mean this "hop back and forth" move ? In the same viewer ? Teleporting ? Loging off and loging in with another viewer ?

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Sorry, different viewers you would have to run side by side.

------------------

And if this is not enough , just imagine that you want to play Nintendo games on Play Station.. FYI: you cant!

Its the same problm. SL and all the other grids in Open Sim are all "Nintendo games" and they are compatible with each other and use the same "engine". SL 2 is a .. "Play Station game" .. a completelly different engine , not compatible with SL 1 or the other grids in Open Sim.

 

[Mony Lindman]

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ObviousAltIsObvious wrote:

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Mony Lindman wrote:

Interesting . I didnt hear about this Hypergrid before.. where is it , whats part of it ? More info please.

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how it works, participating grids etc. at

http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Hypergrid

 

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Hmmm that's a little too technical for my "artistic brain" lol but still very interesting. I wonder why there are only small , mostly private grids there and none of the bigger Open Sim worlds like Inworldz or Avination..

I supose its because of those legal issues you mentioned. But LL could bring some order into that chaos also ..

Added in edit : Or even better, SL could use that technology or a similar and better protected one to connect with the bigger grids in Open Sim.

[495060]

Personally? This is THE most reasuring news I could have heard.

Why would I -as a user- just want another "version" of what we already are capable of. Restrained by the limitations of what we currently have.

I dont care about how 'hard"/long it takes the inpopulation creators to figure out how to make their profits. They are THEIR profits. And I'm sure they or someone else with figure out how to make the goods.

What interests me is the opportunity virtually live at a level and with capabilities that we have not seen yet. To go farther than we have. I want a "NEW" world. Not an upgrade on the old one.

[Mony Lindman]

I understand what youre saying and partially agree , which is why i sugested before that if this new world will be really so different, and if we can really not take more than a few meshes and a few textures from this world into the new one, then it might be better to NOT connect it to the old one at all.

Make it just "another thing", dont transfer any identities or inventories and run it PARALEL to SL but NOT as a "better SL" coz that would kill the present SL. Run it as something ELSE which is by chance run by the same company. Let it look like something that comes out of nothing, like High Fidelity for instance.

And in the same time continue to develop SL as IS and not as an agonysing dinosaurus, after the meteorit has hit. If possible, connect it or even merge it with other worlds on Open Sim and let everyone enjoy this less "shiny" world so as they know it and as they love it !

Some people will be in both worlds , others will chose only one .. but both worlds could stay alive this way. Whereas if you make the new world as planned , as a "better version" of the old world and atract all consumrs into the new one while most probaby giving up any effort to gain new users in the old one .. the old one will die sooner or later and the new one .. might not even be able to be born..

But if people from inside and from outside SL get the clear feling that these are 2 DIFFERENT THINGS then .. it may work..