Inventory and Lag - Myths or not?

[Braden Tedeschi 3]

So many people misuse the word 'lag' so, technically speaking, it's hard to address the 'lag is killing me' part of your question.  There are so many things that can cause your SL client to run slowly that it's hard to answer objectively without a better description of what it is that's running slowly.  Is it bad FPS (frames per second), textures not appearing, you cannot move?

Then, there's the typical thoughts about whether (or not) the sim is running slowly and it had nothing to do with you at all or do you simply have an extremely slow computer (in general) or slow internet connection.

Anyway.. yes, inventory size can cause a bit of congestion on your internet connection and (until it's all completely loaded) the process of downloading can slow you slightly - I would not call it a huge impact but it is there. However, inventory size also increases the memory required for the program to run.  Once it is loaded completely, the connection congestion would ease and the memory required would 'cap' (as far as inventory is concerned).

Folders count as an inventory item, so they have the same, basic affect as any other inventory item.  A very high folder count has just as much affect as a very high item count.

As for the location in your inventory goes, the folder in which you place (or do not place) is not nearly as significant as the overall count - so I would say no to the "sending them to their own folders would create lag for you" except at the time you actually drag and drop them.

Placing items in boxes?  Yes.  That has a significant affect on reducing inventory load times since it reduces overall inventory count.  Reason being that the contents of your inventory items do not show or affect load time - you could have a single box that contains (for example, instead of 250 objects) all your textures and it would only show one item in inventory until you unpacked it and used it somehow.

Sure, sending items to an alt is useful so long as you don't end up spending all your time moving things from place-to-place, instead.  However, you'll face the same amount of inventory loading time on the alt if you don't find a way to reduce your overall count.

[Braden Tedeschi 3]

So many people misuse the word 'lag' so, technically speaking, it's hard to address the 'lag is killing me' part of your question.  There are so many things that can cause your SL client to run slowly that it's hard to answer objectively without a better description of what it is that's running slowly.  Is it bad FPS (frames per second), textures not appearing, you cannot move?

Then, there's the typical thoughts about whether (or not) the sim is running slowly and it had nothing to do with you at all or do you simply have an extremely slow computer (in general) or slow internet connection.

Anyway.. yes, inventory size can cause a bit of congestion on your internet connection and (until it's all completely loaded) the process of downloading can slow you slightly - I would not call it a huge impact but it is there. However, inventory size also increases the memory required for the program to run.  Once it is loaded completely, the connection congestion would ease and the memory required would 'cap' (as far as inventory is concerned).

Folders count as an inventory item, so they have the same, basic affect as any other inventory item.  A very high folder count has just as much affect as a very high item count.

As for the location in your inventory goes, the folder in which you place (or do not place) is not nearly as significant as the overall count - so I would say no to the "sending them to their own folders would create lag for you" except at the time you actually drag and drop them.

Placing items in boxes?  Yes.  That has a significant affect on reducing inventory load times since it reduces overall inventory count.  Reason being that the contents of your inventory items do not show or affect load time - you could have a single box that contains (for example, instead of 250 objects) all your textures and it would only show one item in inventory until you unpacked it and used it somehow.

Sure, sending items to an alt is useful so long as you don't end up spending all your time moving things from place-to-place, instead.  However, you'll face the same amount of inventory loading time on the alt if you don't find a way to reduce your overall count.

[Kerryth Tarantal 1]

About folders counting in inventory count - I tested this. With my inventory fully loaded, I created new folders. My inventory count did not change. I consolidated a number of items into a single folder and deleted the excess folders and duplicate landmarks and notecards. My inventory count went down exactly by the amount of items (landmarks and notecards) I had deleted when I emptied my trash but deleting folders did not reduce the count.This was over a year ago, so perhaps it is different now, but my tests satisfied me that folders do not count as inventory. So I say, organize away!

[Onix Harbinger 0]

I've never experienced any performance degradation from inventory.

It is true that a larger inventory will take longer to load into your cache and when searching. If you're having issues with getting your full inventory to load I reccomend clearing your cache (found in preferences under the network tab) and restarting your client. Once it's been cleared go find a nice empty full sim and do a simple inventory search and sit and wait for it to fully cache it shouldnt take but a few moments.

As always, it never hurts to stay organized and diciplined about it. Generally anything that I expect to go out of immediate use goes into a folder and if an entire folder of items goes unused for a long time I either sort through it for trashing and anything valuable I put into a dated "Old" folder.

[Braden Tedeschi 3]

True.  The count of objects does not change.  There is no folder count display.

However, it still is an item in terms of "something I must load when producing an inventory list".  One would be very unwise to believe that - if you decided to add 1000 folders to your inventory - it would have no effect and not require loading in the future.  This applies to any user-created folder.

[Cinnamon Lohner 962]

Here is one of the best writeups on SL lag I think I have read.   Worth the time

http://analutetia.com/2009/06/22/anatomy-of-lag/

--Cinn

[Braden Tedeschi 3]

With no doubt, people will benefit from that article if they read it.

Personally, I detest the usage of the word 'lag' and think a slightly more-descriptive term would really help a lot of people.  In my mind, even the non-technical should be able to distinguish the difference between (all compared to 'spec') a) slow internet connection, b) slow computer, and c) slow sim.

As that article also shows, most are determined by knowing your own computer and reading a few numbers.

[Baeric Constantine 7]

Yes, large inventory can cause slowness (often called lag).

[Baeric Constantine 7]

one can have both fast sim and fast computer yet still experience lag... lag is what it is... client or server side.

[Mickey Vandeverre 0]

Thank you for your responses.  I realize that I am trying to kill a 2 ton Lag Monster with a fly swatter, but trying to narrow it all down, and it's not just me, I hear it all day long from people across the grid.

High-speed connection, that is spot on, 99.9% of the time.

Average Laptop, because SL fried the two above-average laptops.

Trouble varies from sim to sim.....but I want to be in the sims with PEOPLE.....and can't.  Those are the worst.

Have adjusted all the settings, and cleared cache, and had the computer cleaned out and optimized by geeks....which is why I'm considering other things, now.

I'm going to go read that article, Cinnamon, thank you.....but the concern is....if someone using an average computer with high speed, who has adjusted all the controls....cannot participate in live events and shopping at populated malls and classes and community get-togethers....basically normal activities (and this laptop worked just fine and dandy three years ago, here).....why are people who have been here a long time having lag problems now....is it because their huge inventories are holding them back....or is it a combination of other things....is it just simply getting worse, overall?  and if a new user on an average computer enters the world, and hasn't done all the tweaking yet, or doesn't have a clue to optimization.....how long will they stay?

[Kokoro Fasching 14]

I have a very large inventory, and have very little problems.  But to make sure, I used my combat alt that has almost no inventory.

 

Me: Inventory count 78k

Combat Alt: Inventory count 1k

Sim Crossings, both sims healthy.  Same time to cross border, which is less than a second.

Teleports - under 10 seconds.

 

Now, some issues come into play with both those when I am wearing an item with Mono scripts, a large number of scripts, or scripted Sculpty items.  In those cases, both sim crossings and teleprots are heavily affected.

Busy sim, or teleporting to a busy sim.  Make sure your Landmark folder and Calling Card folders are trim - best thing is to move them to over folders.  The standard SL client will constantly check those folders when teleporting, opening maps, or crossing borders to see if they need to update your map based on if a item finds a match in the new sim/map display.

I have my graphics set to Ultra, and draw distance normally set to 128 meters, and still get very high frame rates (usualy over 25 FPS even with 40 av's near by).  When I am shopping, I tend to set my draw distance to 320 meters so I can just cam around the shopping area.

[Doris Haller 2]

Braden.Tedeschi schrieb:

Is it bad FPS (frames per second), textures not appearing, you cannot move?

FPS are ok. Everything is grey. I move like I walk thru a swamp.

And I only have bad sex in SL.

 

All the traffic-light lamps in this neat lag-o-meter are green, there is no packet loss.. SNAFU.

I'm in SL for how many years.. 3?  I always been told that lag is caused by my network connection, my graphic card, my cache. I cleaned my cache so many times my hard disk gets thin where the cache is stored.

If you'd tell me I would have to stand up while playing to get rid of lag, I'd try.

I have a new computer (windows 7, 64bit), windows rates the CPU with 7.4, graphic 7.2 (out of 7.9 points). Still I have lag.

You know what? I think I should not have lag with this equipment, nor should I be bothered with cleaning my cache, choosing bandwitdh and whatever else they tell you to do and where you need to study computer science for.

This should be a game for non computer savvys, it should run smoothely on any equipment that meets the requirements and the requirements should not be way up to high end machines.

 

(I know you will ask, here it is:

CPU: Intel Pentium III core (unknown model, 0.18 micron process) with internal L2 cache (2672 MHz)

Memory: 6136 MB

OS Version: Professional  (Build 7600)

Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation

Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 260/PCI/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.17.0011.9621

OpenGL Version: 3.2.0

is what SL says.. and lags)

No, I don't think it has to do with your inventory.

[Doris Haller 2]

Mickey.Vandeverre schrieb:

If the above is true, in causing lag....what would fix it....create an av for storage only....and send the bulk of it to another av who just sits, and doesn't need to walk around?  Is there some other kind of storage solution?

But you can't store no-trans things in other avis. You can put them in a box and rez this box on your land. Then delete the things from your inventory.

That will clean your inventory, and you'll lag with less things then.

It will have the same effect on lag as if you'd dance in underwear around a fire: you will still have lag.

[Kokoro Fasching 14]

Doris.Haller wrote:

 

Braden.Tedeschi schrieb:

Is it bad FPS (frames per second), textures not appearing, you cannot move?

FPS are ok. Everything is grey. I move like I walk thru a swamp.

And I only have bad sex in SL.

 

All the traffic-light lamps in this neat lag-o-meter are green, there is no packet loss.. SNAFU.

I'm in SL for how many years.. 3?  I always been told that lag is caused by my network connection, my graphic card, my cache. I cleaned my cache so many times my hard disk gets thin where the cache is stored.

If you'd tell me I would have to stand up while playing to get rid of lag, I'd try.

I have a new computer (windows 7, 64bit), windows rates the CPU with 7.4, graphic 7.2 (out of 7.9 points). Still I have lag.

You know what? I think I should not have lag with this equipment, nor should I be bothered with cleaning my cache, choosing bandwitdh and whatever else they tell you to do and where you need to study computer science for.

This should be a game for non computer savvys, it should run smoothely on any equipment that meets the requirements and the requirements should not be way up to high end machines.

 

(I know you will ask, here it is:

CPU: Intel Pentium III core (unknown model, 0.18 micron process) with internal L2 cache (2672 MHz)

Memory: 6136 MB

OS Version: Professional  (Build 7600)

Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation

Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 260/PCI/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.17.0011.9621

OpenGL Version: 3.2.0

is what SL says.. and lags)

No, I don't think it has to do with your inventory.

What is your internet connection?  Are you connectd via ethernet (wired), or wireless?

 

 

[Tolya Ugajin 1,518]

I notice sometimes it takes forever for SL to count what I have and display my inventory, but that happens when lag is bad, not the other way around.

Someone once told me that HUDs caused lag and failed teleports.  I scoffed at them but turns out they were right.  If I wear my megaprim organizer HUD, I cannot tp off the sim I am on.  Thanks to the nameless genius who told me to try this.

[Mickey Vandeverre 0]

Cinnamon - that's a great write-up, thank you for the link.  Worth reading a few times.

Part of it explains why the lag is so bad at the malls and at a store.  The suggestion to have walls as dividers, rather than display in an open space, because it allows the rendering faster (you will have to read the article for the technical explanation).....I did not know.  It certainly explains why some stores product displays take forever to load.

[Mickey Vandeverre 0]

Doris.Haller wrote:

 

Braden.Tedeschi schrieb:

Is it bad FPS (frames per second), textures not appearing, you cannot move?

FPS are ok. Everything is grey. I move like I walk thru a swamp.

And I only have bad sex in SL.

 

All the traffic-light lamps in this neat lag-o-meter are green, there is no packet loss.. SNAFU.

I'm in SL for how many years.. 3?  I always been told that lag is caused by my network connection, my graphic card, my cache. I cleaned my cache so many times my hard disk gets thin where the cache is stored.

If you'd tell me I would have to stand up while playing to get rid of lag, I'd try.

I have a new computer (windows 7, 64bit), windows rates the CPU with 7.4, graphic 7.2 (out of 7.9 points). Still I have lag.

You know what? I think I should not have lag with this equipment, nor should I be bothered with cleaning my cache, choosing bandwitdh and whatever else they tell you to do and where you need to study computer science for.

This should be a game for non computer savvys, it should run smoothely on any equipment that meets the requirements and the requirements should not be way up to high end machines.

 

(I know you will ask, here it is:

CPU: Intel Pentium III core (unknown model, 0.18 micron process) with internal L2 cache (2672 MHz)

Memory: 6136 MB

OS Version: Professional  (Build 7600)

Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation

Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 260/PCI/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.17.0011.9621

OpenGL Version: 3.2.0

is what SL says.. and lags)

No, I don't think it has to do with your inventory.

 

Well, I'm not going to post my computer specs, or the tech savvy will laugh, and say no wonder you're having problems.  But the deal is I'm using an average computer, just like half or more of the population is using.  Like you say...if you meet the requirements, it should run halfway decent, without having to study computer science.

[Mickey Vandeverre 0]

 

Kokoro.Fasching wrote:

 

I have a very large inventory, and have very little problems.  But to make sure, I used my combat alt that has almost no inventory.

 

Me: Inventory count 78k

Combat Alt: Inventory count 1k

Sim Crossings, both sims healthy.  Same time to cross border, which is less than a second.

Teleports - under 10 seconds.

 

Now, some issues come into play with both those when I am wearing an item with Mono scripts, a large number of scripts, or scripted Sculpty items.  In those cases, both sim crossings and teleprots are heavily affected.

Busy sim, or teleporting to a busy sim.  Make sure your Landmark folder and Calling Card folders are trim - best thing is to move them to over folders.  The standard SL client will constantly check those folders when teleporting, opening maps, or crossing borders to see if they need to update your map based on if a item finds a match in the new sim/map display.

I have my graphics set to Ultra, and draw distance normally set to 128 meters, and still get very high frame rates (usualy over 25 FPS even with 40 av's near by).  When I am shopping, I tend to set my draw distance to 320 meters so I can just cam around the shopping area.

 

Kokoro - on the LMs and Calling Cards - that's another thing I forgot to ask about - had heard that those would slow you down.  Will empty those, to see if it helps.  Thank you.

[Faubio Alter 72]

Lag is killing me.  Is any of it related to Inventory?

Nope, but does show you have a connection problem.

 

In this order. Try the connection again after each step.................

 

Make sure your Ethernet adapted driver is up to date.

 

Disconnect all wires concerning your connection, wait 30 seconds then plug them back in again, including the

 

modem and transformer. Wires should snugly fit into ports.

 

Open the statistics bar (view > statistics bar) and the network preferences (edit > preferences > network >

 

maximum bandwidth slider) Tp to a SIM while the SIM is rezzing set the Bandwidth slide bar for the  maximum

 

kbps you can achieve in the statistics bar. This location should be near the maximum speed of your ISP

 

service.

 

You can check your connection speed here:

 

http://www.speedtest.net/

 

 

 

 

Find a gadget/widget/meter to put on your desktop to monitor your connection.

 

If your looses connectivity contact your ISP and complain. Expect a broken connection when connected to

 

the Internet.  SL should run continuously, SL is streaming.

 

 

Note to advanced users: Use a hard wired 10/100/1000 Ethernet adapter, if possible. A wired connection is

 

more reliable then a wireless one, switch to a wired connection if possible.

 

Use these suggestions at your own risk.

[Mickey Vandeverre 0]

Thank you for the info, Faubio.  Pretty sure my connection is fine.  It's wireless.  But I can plug in the ether cable, and see if that helps.  All other programs work fine.  Not as wonderful as the two good laptops that SL fried....but average.  I'm only trying to get to an average SL usage experience - not expecting miracles....but do believe it is far below average, at the moment.

I used that test, and the speed is average.

download = 1.32 mb/s

upload = .26 mb/s

ping = 177ms

on the packet loss test - packet loss = 0

I tried to find an explanation of the above, but can't seem to find one.  Again - you sort of need a computer whiz in your pocket to figure it out.  Is there a computer whiz standing at the Welcome Centers, to get people with average set-ups, lined up and on board....before they log off and uninstall the program for good?

[Eli Schlegal 6]

Mickey.Vandeverre wrote:.

download = 1.32 mb/s

upload = .26 mb/s

I hate to be the one to tell you this, my friend... but that is really really slow.

[Mickey Vandeverre 0]

Well, geez - the computer geniuses were supposed to have "optimized" it - had it at two different shops - is it just the inability of the computer itself?  We have to bust out 1200 bucks for the ASUS to get around in SL?

[Julya Ivory 0]

Mickey, I only have one tip if you are lagged out of your mind. You can check your status report, watch your FPS carefully, if the local (your) fps gets below 2 this is a signal of extreme lag, when it goes below 1 you will hardly be..a..abl..e...to..talk..even typing will be affected.

I DJ a lot, which means I get in situations where my system is faced with handling a lot more than an empty sim. And then my fps sinks to below 1 at times. Still I have to deal with requests in IM and be able to reply to chat. My current solution (buying a new powerful laptop is also not an option for me) is to turn off prims, basically this means you canot see ANY prims, so people will have no prim hair and are usually bald, furries will lose wings, tails, ears, etc. etc.

You can do this using SHIFT-CTRL-ALT-9, but remember, using this will make it hard to move around (doors will not show, floors will be invisible, stairs will become a void. But it will give you an option besides leaving the place and TP to an empty sim.

[Mickey Vandeverre 0]

Thanks for the Alt-9 tip, Julya - was not aware of that.  I don't need to see anyone's hair...just want to hear the music at a live event.  The fps is generally lower than 2.  Typing at a party or club or live event is just as you said....almost impossible.

Obviously it doesn't have much to do with Inventory....but got sidetracked to another point.  I'm not the only one with an average computer trying to use SL.  As you said, the high power computer is not an option at the moment.  Also, didn't want to invest again, before figuring it all out.  Two other perfectly fine laptops got fried using SL, and don't want to fry a brand new one, either....or get only a one year life expectancy from it.

It's not just me.  The times when I was on a good laptop....If I tp a newbie to a live event....they crash within minutes.  The event is an hour long.  Ten minutes into it, they arrive and crash.  Takes them a few minutes to get back.  Maybe they last for another ten....then crash again.  By the time they get back a second time, the event is half over....and they will probably crash a third time....then give up....then they may never go to a live event again.  That sucks!  On this computer - I understand their dilemma, now.

There was someone in a forum the other day asking if they could use SL on a $500 or $600 computer.  I just don't see that happening.  In that case....the complete experience has been reduced for a huge portion of the population.  Maybe that can't be adjusted or tweaked....maybe not possible....but that's a bummer.

[Eli Schlegal 6]

Mickey.Vandeverre wrote:

 

Well, geez - the computer geniuses were supposed to have "optimized" it - had it at two different shops - is it just the inability of the computer itself?  We have to bust out 1200 bucks for the ASUS to get around in SL?

Upload and download speed is a measurement of your internet connection. Your ISP.

[Julya Ivory 0]

If you want to just hear music at a concert, you could use the "remove prims" setting as I said, it will take your 2fps up to 15fps as I have seen. But I also noticed that when I cam to a prim-lean area (when i turn the stream of I cam to behind a curtain at the club which faces the boundary of the Sim) the fps go up considerable. So if you do not want to lose all your prims, you could just cam away and face the void next to the Sim and it will improve your speed as well.