Mesh and Flexi hair

[LoriLexa]

I would love to hear opinions about mesh and flexi hair. I know that mesh is slowly taking over, especially rigged mesh hair. I'm realy loving the long rigged mesh styles and shorter un-rigged/rigged mesh versions but I'm still hanging on to some of my flexi styles. However, I have to say that I'm moving slowly away from those flexi styles.

Mainly because alot of flexi styles go through the avatar shape as opposed to rigged mesh that lays against the avatar and moves with it. Flexi is fine with me, if it's a style that does not conflict with going through my shape.

I would like to hear what other people think about this. It would be interesting to hear how other users are adjusting to changing trends in SL.

Do you like hair movement? why or why not? etc... please post your thoughts, I would love to hear them.

[MIstahMoose]

Mesh will definitely give you better shapes and such, and does have some movement, but no ones hair in RL moves like flexi. So it really just won't compete in quality vs mesh.

That being said there is still some uses and combinations of the two that makes having flexi strans still somewhat nice

I prefer mesh, Better shapes for the hair and all.. Though having the flexi throughout some styles just makes it slightly more rugged and fun

[UncommonTruth]

I have I believe just one non mesh hair I still wear. A short bob that doesn't cut through anything because it isn't long enough to have to worry about it. Otherwise, mesh all the way!  

[LoriLexa]

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MIstahMoose wrote:

Mesh will definitely give you better shapes and such, and does have some movement, but no ones hair in RL moves like flexi. So it really just won't compete in quality vs mesh.

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Excellent point and I never thought about that in regards to RL hair moving like flexi hair. You are right, it does not. This also makes me think of the time when Flexi hair was popular in SL. Why did we like it so much? It was not realisitc as you pointed out. That is an interesting observation on your part. Flexi hair looks as if we have a large fan following us around or strong gusts of wind LOL. I guess it was a change from stiff helmut hair. Rigged mesh does have movement that is more realistic, so the key is realism. In the sense that it (hair) improves and evolves. So I wonder what creators will make next. :matte-motes-big-grin:

[Tari Landar]

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LoriLexa wrote:

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MIstahMoose wrote:

Mesh will definitely give you better shapes and such, and does have some movement, but no ones hair in RL moves like flexi. So it really just won't compete in quality vs mesh.

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Excellent point and I never thought about that in regards to RL hair moving like flexi hair. You are right, it does not. This also makes me think of the time when Flexi hair was popular in SL. Why did we like it so much? It was

not

realisitc as you pointed out. That is an interesting observation on your part. Flexi hair looks as if we have a large fan following us around or strong gusts of wind LOL. I guess it was a change from stiff helmut hair. Rigged mesh does have movement that is more realistic, so the key is realism. In the sense that it (hair) improves and evolves. So I wonder what creators will make next. :matte-motes-big-grin:

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It was, and still is, popular because it is *more realistic than the options that did exist. That said....

I like both, and I believe both have their place, for me. The cutting into the body thing never bothered me, and still doesn't. Natural hair doesn't sit still, nor does it sit like playdough upon your head, unless you make it to do exactly that. Just as flexi skirts cut through the body, so does hair. They still flow more realistically than mesh or prim hair ever could/can.(at least, for now). I don't know about you, but in rl, I have long hair, it moves in the breeze, it's not plastered to my head. I do still love mesh hair, when done right(and I'm not convinced most is made "right" to my liking, actually I only have one creator of mesh hair I really like), but the one aspect I do not like, is that, in the breeze, it stays plastered in place. Yes it moves and bends with my body, but it's still not a realistic move. My hair, when my body moves(in rl) also moves, but certainly not in sync with the rest of me. It's hair, it's light, and it moves both on it's own as well as by force, lol. Which is why I like flexi hair. Also the same reason I like flexi gowns and skirts. In rl, I would rarely wear a gown or dress that is skin tight, so it, too, would move with the wind as well as body motion. It wouldn't cut through my body(rl), of course, but it does still move.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. So, for me, neither is better, or worse, than the other. I have one mesh style I like, and currently have on. But I still like my flexi hairs and will wear them too.

Now if we had mesh hair that moved in the breeze, didn't stay plastered in place, as well as moving naturally with the body...I might change my mind. Until then. I go with whichever one tickles my fancy at any given time.

[LoriLexa]

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Tari Landar wrote:

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LoriLexa wrote:

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MIstahMoose wrote:

Mesh will definitely give you better shapes and such, and does have some movement, but no ones hair in RL moves like flexi. So it really just won't compete in quality vs mesh.

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Excellent point and I never thought about that in regards to RL hair moving like flexi hair. You are right, it does not. This also makes me think of the time when Flexi hair was popular in SL. Why did we like it so much? It was

not

realisitc as you pointed out. That is an interesting observation on your part. Flexi hair looks as if we have a large fan following us around or strong gusts of wind LOL. I guess it was a change from stiff helmut hair. Rigged mesh does have movement that is more realistic, so the key is realism. In the sense that it (hair) improves and evolves. So I wonder what creators will make next. :matte-motes-big-grin:

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Natural hair doesn't sit still, nor does it sit like playdough upon your head, unless you make it to do exactly that. Just as flexi skirts cut through the body, so does hair. They still flow more realistically than mesh or prim hair ever could/can.(at least, for now). I don't know about you, but in rl, I have long hair, it moves in the breeze, it's not plastered to my head. I do still love mesh hair, when done right(and I'm not convinced most is made "right" to my liking, actually I only have one creator of mesh hair I really like), but the one aspect I do not like, is that, in the breeze, it stays plastered in place. Yes it moves and bends with my body, but it's still not a realistic move. My hair, when my body moves(in rl) also moves, but certainly not in sync with the rest of me. It's hair, it's light, and it moves both on it's own as well as by force, lol. Which is why I like flexi hair. Also the same reason I like flexi gowns and skirts. In rl, I would rarely wear a gown or dress that is skin tight, so it, too, would move with the wind as well as body motion. It wouldn't cut through my body(rl), of course, but it does still move.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. So, for me, neither is better, or worse, than the other. I have one mesh style I like, and currently have on. But I still like my flexi hairs and will wear them too.

Now if we had mesh hair that moved in the breeze, didn't stay plastered in place, as well as moving naturally with the body...I might change my mind. Until then. I go with whichever one tickles my fancy at any given time.

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I agree with you. It all depends on the specific circumstances.

I have to say that with flexi pony-tails and mesh pony-tails, I do prefer flexi if they are high or mid placed on the back of the head. On styles that have a pony-tail resting over the shoulder in the front, it looks better if it is rigged mesh and lays against the avatar shape.

As far as long gowns, I have always been an advocate of flexi gowns. If they are long, the flexi gowns move better when you dance. The mesh long gowns appear stiff and some stretch or break. Unless they have an open front where the legs are not diminished by an alpha layer.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I have some of both and it depends on the style. Mesh is great for updo's and braids and such  For long hair i don't like mesh unless it also has flexi mixed in too.  Long mesh only hair has no movement and looks like you put on way too much hair products.

As to the comment about no RL hair moves like flexi hair, I disagree.  It depends on how skilled the creator is at setting up the flexi.  I have waist length hair in RL and can tell you that flexi is more the way it moves than mesh.  The only thing about flexi is it moves through the body, but prefer that than have long hair plastered to my body when i dance or ride.

Most people I see in the venues i go to wear long flexi hair or mesh/flexi, sometimes I don't see mesh at all, and sometimes only a small percentage are wearing it.  The place where I buy most of my hair does mesh but still comes out regularly with flexi hair, so it must still be selling well.

Mesh to me is just another option we have, not the be all and end all of fashion.

 

 

 

[Coby Foden]

Flexi hairs are still my preferred ones. Even though they don't move and sway exactly like real hairs do, to my eyes flexi hairs look and move much nicer than the stiff glued to the body mesh hairs. Even if the long mesh hair is rigged, its movement resembles nothing what we see in RL - it is glued to the body.

For short hairs mesh is good, but for long hairs flexi wins in my selection. :smileyhappy:

[Syo Emerald]

For me its the other way around, because I'm tired of seeing my hair stick out of my chest, whenever I move. Also my favorite shops have all switched to mesh and most flexi hairs that can be found start to look outdated in terms of textures. There is nothing new coming, as it seems.

[Teagan Tobias]

I don't like the look of glue or to many cans of hair spray you get from mesh hair. I also don't like the flexi hair sticking through my body. But short flexi hair, shoulder length or so, to me looks and feels the most natural.

I keep trying mesh hair demos thinking like hair has always done, it will get better. But recently I tried on a mesh hair and standing in front of a window the hair looked like my invisi-prim shoes looked on some dance floors, together with the slimed look I was not impressed.

It looks like I'll will be using my flexi hair for some time to come.

[Nova Convair]

Mesh hair moves with the body but looks like it's glued to the body. Looks like crap.

Flexi hair swings through the body and the movement doesn't convince me. Looks like crap.

So most of the hairstyles in SL look like crap. The one or the other will look better in specific circumstances. Very few are even of an acceptable quality.

SL has no good hair. Point.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

I'm flexi prim hair all the way. Mesh hair looks beautiful (sometimes) in a photograph, but on an avi it looks like it was set in place using a gallon of shellac.  Untill I see a mesh hair that makes me give the same wow response i gave when i tried on my flexi hair, i'm staying with what i have.

|:0p

[Marianne Little]

It is some who sell a combination of mesh snd flexi. Catwa just released one style. Long meshhair that is rigged, and some thin flexi hairstrands that move. This is cool... usually in RL it is hairstrands that move, not the whole hair. Unless it's really blowing hard. I can't remember the hair name. Search Catwa on the Marketplace and sort to newest first.

If I am not mistaken, Analog Dog uses this in some hairs too. They only have an inworld store.

[LoriLexa]

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Marianne Little wrote:

It is some who sell a combination of mesh snd flexi. Catwa just released one style. Long meshhair that is rigged, and some thin flexi hairstrands that move. This is cool... usually in RL it is hairstrands that move, not the whole hair. Unless it's really blowing hard. I can't remember the hair name. Search Catwa on the Marketplace and sort to newest first.

If I am not mistaken, Analog Dog uses this in some hairs too. They only have an inworld store.

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I'm not looking to buy some hair, I was just curious about the opinion of others regarding mesh and flexi hair.:matte-motes-smile:

[Marianne Little]

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LoriLexa wrote:

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Marianne Little wrote:

It is some who sell a combination of mesh snd flexi. Catwa just released one style. Long meshhair that is rigged, and some thin flexi hairstrands that move. This is cool... usually in RL it is hairstrands that move, not the whole hair. Unless it's really blowing hard. I can't remember the hair name. Search Catwa on the Marketplace and sort to newest first.

If I am not mistaken, Analog Dog uses this in some hairs too. They only have an inworld store.

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I'm not looking to buy some hair, I was just curious about the opinion of others regarding mesh and flexi hair.:matte-motes-smile:

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My mistake, I was reading quickly. I use mesh hair unless it is from Dura. I like their hair so much. But I buy shorter styles there -shoulder length at most - and so the clipping through body is not a problem. I will not use long hair that isn't rigged mesh anymore. I really liked the mesh/flexi combination I wrote about over here, they try to please both sides - those who can't stand clipping through the body, and those who want movement. SL creators really try to work around the limits in SL. They have also made mesh hair much more natural, with finer hair strands. I think many who dislike mesh hair, haven't tried a demo in a long time. Mesh hair was very chunky in the start.

[Bliss Zufreur]

i have some mesh hair that i like, but the majority of the time i still wear my favorite flexi hair....it just looks more natural to me...i've noticed if i wear mesh hair that hangs down over a mesh blouse, from certain angles either the hair or the blouse will disappear...i'm figuring it's like the alpha sorting problem we already had with alpha textures on prims?  i'm not even sure if i'm saying that right   hehe    ..there is also the problem with alot of mesh not loading at a high traffic event, and bald just isn't a good look

anyway...for now, i'm still wearing alot of old style stuff

i don't wear hairspray or hair gel or any other goop in my hair in rl, and i don't want to look that way in sl either 

[Perrie Juran]

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Nova Convair wrote:

Mesh hair moves with the body but looks like it's glued to the body. Looks like crap.

Flexi hair swings through the body and the movement doesn't convince me. Looks like crap.

So most of the hairstyles in SL look like crap. The one or the other will look better in specific circumstances. Very few are even of an acceptable quality.

SL has no good hair. Point.

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I agree, SL has no good hair.  Or another way to look at it, all hairs in SL have shortcomings.

Some of it comes down to the skill of the hair maker.

A lot of it comes down to the limits of what we have to work with.

If a Mesh creator could figure out how to overcome that "plastered on look" it would be the cats meow for longer hairs.

I think the best looking hairs are shorter cuts done with flexis.  But a really well done short flexi hair (they usually have a lot of strands, such as Sweetheart Hairs does) comes with a hidden cost.

When calculating ARC you add:

"Each texture counts once, so hair that has fifty prims but only one texture across all the hair adds only 5 points for textures. (Note that most hair has at least two textures, one with transparency to make the 'ends', and one without for the main bulk of the hair. So hair like that adds 10 points for textures.)"

"8 points for each prim that's flexible."

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Avatar_Rendering_Cost

So there is a pretty high "penalty" for a well made hair with flexis.

[LoriLexa]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I have some of both and it depends on the style. Mesh is great for updo's and braids and such  For long hair i don't like mesh unless it also has flexi mixed in too.  Long mesh only hair has no movement and looks like you put on way too much hair products.

As to the comment about no RL hair moves like flexi hair, I disagree.  It depends on how skilled the creator is at setting up the flexi.  I have waist length hair in RL and can tell you that flexi is more the way it moves than mesh.  The only thing about flexi is it moves through the body, but prefer that than have long hair plastered to my body when i dance or ride.

Most people I see in the venues i go to wear long flexi hair or mesh/flexi, sometimes I don't see mesh at all, and sometimes only a small percentage are wearing it.  The place where I buy most of my hair does mesh but still comes out regularly with flexi hair, so it must still be selling well.

Mesh to me is just another option we have, not the be all and end all of fashion.

 

 

 

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I'm looking at some of my older flexi styles again and some do move in a more subtle way which I like better. So, you're right, it depends on how it's made.

[Pussycat Catnap]

The best of world is had by styles that are mostly mesh and use limited flexi to have key strands move when you move.

Flexi tends to move too much, resulting in us all looking like a fashion advertisement shot in a windtunnel. Mesh of course, doesn't move at all, leaving us looking our hair is silicone gel.

But combine them right, and you get a good look.

 

[Ashy Calcutt]

I wasn't a fan of mesh hair cause i could never get a hair to fit my Furry avies and i stuck with flexi hair but Since i found a Good Mesh hair store called Ayashi I finally have nice looking Mesh hair that complements my AV I'm Currently wearing and no it doest look glued on. it looks natural to a certain degree but it doesn't sway in the breeze sort of soeak also it depends on who makes the mesh hair is what counts.

[bebejee]

I like both but prefer flexi.

[Linda Brynner]

Basically most of my hair is flexi. I have one mesh which is great. It's very elegant and reminds of an early 60 hairdo. At the time hair was using much hairspray hahah. The drawback is that the tail doesn't move (sticks) which is a pity and a reason i prefer flexi in general.. unless flexi mesh comes to the grid lol.

[GatoUke]

and omite the song, the bad animation, and even the fact that are Disney characters... Focus on the clothes, especially in the clothes and hair physics. I'm not a guy of computer and programming (and less say physics and mathematics) but I still don't see how SL could not achieve that kind of graphic details with meshes...

[Aethelwine]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Nova Convair wrote:

Mesh hair moves with the body but looks like it's glued to the body. Looks like crap.

Flexi hair swings through the body and the movement doesn't convince me. Looks like crap.

So most of the hairstyles in SL look like crap. The one or the other will look better in specific circumstances. Very few are even of an acceptable quality.

SL has no good hair. Point.

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I agree, SL has no good hair.  Or another way to look at it, all hairs in SL have shortcomings.

Some of it comes down to the skill of the hair maker.

A lot of it comes down to the limits of what we have to work with.

If a Mesh creator could figure out how to overcome that "plastered on look" it would be the cats meow for longer hairs.

I think the best looking hairs are shorter cuts done with flexis.  But a really well done short flexi hair (they usually have a lot of strands, such as Sweetheart Hairs does) comes with a hidden cost.

When calculating ARC you add:

"Each texture counts once, so hair that has fifty prims but only one texture across all the hair adds only 5 points for textures. (Note that most hair has at least two textures, one with transparency to make the 'ends', and one without for the main bulk of the hair. So hair like that adds 10 points for textures.)"

"8 points for each prim that's flexible."

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Avatar_Rendering_Cost

So there is a pretty high "penalty" for a well made hair with flexis.

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That is the main reason I have moved away from flexi hair, it pretty much doubles the rendering cost of your avatar.

[Jacklyne69]

Not to dig up a old post but still nothing much has changed in the way the hair lays and falls in and out of clothing worn high on the rear neck.  This should be a simple fix by utilizing the HUD feature in the sim.  You could possibly trigger the hair with a hud and apply a non-crash code that prevents the hair from falling through clothing and skin.  It must detect mesh in order to do this.  it in a sense would be AI hair and all hair makers could provide this fix as a hud with all rigged mesh hair.