LAND RIGHTS ! HELP!

[Stacy Maracas]

I rented 1/2  HOMESTEAD sim form this guy in SL, I have been here since Oct 2004, so not a new resident in SL.  I pad THREE MONTHS advance for this.  within one week he allowed a CLUB to be put up on a HOMESTEAD and it lags me so bad I cant even MOVE on my own land.  I spent one week trying to contact him he ignores me.  I finally go a response form him when i thretaened to contact Linden Labs about his lack of customer support with his land.  He responded to me that tier is non refundable and tough.

I told him i pay him three months in advance and there is NO CLUBS allowed ona homestead and i cannot move on my own LAND, that i pay for.  He said too bad.  Then I again asked to move and to have my money refunded, he called me a "Fcking Btch" and this of course ensued me to get quite angry.  I decided that if he is going to allow a club to lag me out of my own property and im stuck with it then i will do the same, i set fire to my land, and caused lag, yes this is childish but hey since im paying for it, and i cant have my money back i can do what i want right?

He ha snow thrown me off theland I have paid 3 motnhs in advance for and REFUSES to return my money........WHAT RIGHTS DO I HAVE PLEASE!!??  Thi sis ridiculous, and i have no problem contacting ALLLLL the people I know in this game, bloggers, magazines, tc programs all of it and exposing him for what he is.

Can someone give me advice on my rights here?  If i paid rent for this place and he refuses to give me my money back he cannot ban me from the land he needs to return my money.

Please contatc me Stacy Maracas and tell me what I should d in this situation, because I am VERY angry right now, and htis is insane.

Thank you.

[Unklebob Hotaling]

yes my answer sucks and i`m sorry for that... but there`s nothing you can really do.  LL doesn`t get involved in disputes between residents; and this is one of those times i really hope someone proves me wrong.

[Pussycat Catnap]

The Lindens are very very very unlikely to be willing to help.

This is why people need to consider buying mainland. There's a -lot- of it out there right now.

There are reputable estate managers out there. If yours isn't one of them, leave. Unfortunately... I really don't know how to go about finding which ones are reputable. About the only one who's reputation I know speaks for itself solidly around SL is Caledon. Outside of that... you're going to have to hit google and look for reviews, ratings, or whatever is out there.

[Stacy Maracas]

Ok thank you for the responses.  I think this will have to be one of those few times that I do use my Second Life age, as well as My standing as one of the first SL Mentors, and network like only I can, i wonder how many bloggers, magazines, SLTV and radio would be interested in this person.....my bet is, as many people as I know, (not bragging, just gonna use it), my bet is that within a week his land rentals go to hell.

SO maybe time to fight back old school way.....

Thanks you all for the advice.

-Stacy

[Unklebob Hotaling]

Sorry     It does royally suck being as noble and as responsible as to pay so far in advance - have nothing but honourable intent, and having that used against you.  There's no reason for it other than spite.  The irony being, the club you mention is as just as great a risk, anyone is a fool if they think that can't happen to them also.

Best of luck truely.

[Pussycat Catnap]

Yeah if this person is willing to screw over one tenant, and a long standing one at that... he's not going to be trustworthy with any tenant.

Can't mention them here, but there -are- third party forums that can be used to discuss the event in full detail. And to find out about the reputations of different estate holders if for some reason going mainland is not a viable option.

[Clint Maggs]

I wish I had a better answer too but it does seem like you got the short end of the stick.

I do like the idea of finding a 3rd party website that lists these unprofessional people.  A lot of these less than honorable people don't realize who knows who in SL.   Word does get around...

 

Again....sorry to hear your bad situation

[Pussycat Catnap]

That's another aspect to some third party forums too.

If you go in there and start defaming one of the actually reputable estate managers, people will call you on it - as good reputations also get around. So its a place to go if you have a legit issue (which we'll assume the OP does), but anyone reading this thinking they can off of LL's space just to trash somebody should think twice.

[Unklebob Hotaling]

What would be a good idea is some sort of BBB type group set up for businesses, let's use land as an example.  I rent land from an estate group who personally i find exceptional, if they have and bad press I'm certainly inaware of it.  Use that group to prop good reputable business-people/groups... if there is an instance like the one described here for obvious reasons this land person wouldn't be propped or recommended as reputable.  If they aren't propped or mentioned period, it's not defaming.

Do such 'consumer advocate' groups exist?  If not perhaps they should... it's not so much defaming as it is supporting businesses with good ethics and practices.

[Pussycat Catnap]

I haven't heard of anything like that directly.

I just happen to read about 4 or 5 other forums devoted to SL, and a few rabbid blogs, and have seen some of the issues that pop up in places like this filter over to those places. Sometimes to good effect, sometimes not.

 

But if there's a third party rating system anywhere, I don't know of it. But then as I own mainland, I never thought to go out of my way to look for it either.

The best I can say within the TOS here, is to hit up google and see what comes back.

 

.

[Tolya Ugajin]

Just out of curiosity, what did this person charge for 3 months for 1/2 a homestead?

Your best bet - find a new landlord, preferably one who puts the environment on their sim as high in importance as the rental income.

Can't imagine who I may be referring to in a shameless plug.

[Unklebob Hotaling]

"Can't imagine who I may be referring to in a shameless plug."

no doubt Tolya, thats a guessing game for sure... i'd ask who you were refering to Tolya but i'm sure you probably can't say.  PS, how's the enviorment out your way Tolya?

[Tolya Ugajin]

Downright tropical/residential, Bob, and 3/4 vacant

[Clint Maggs]

@ Pussy

I agree defaming anywhere is not a good idea.  It does'nt help anybody and makes for confusion of who is good and who is bad.

I don't know of any sites off hand for dishonest estate owners but in my past dealings with bot farm sites, any info submitted is looked and and added to the site if you can back it up or the site admin looks for themself.

But if you give false information it same same as crying wolf...  nobody is going to listen to you.

[Tolya Ugajin]

You know, it would be as easy as setting up a group on SL, with some poor sap who has to update a running notecard listing businesses with complaints, and sending out a notice every 2 weeks to members, along with notices as they come in of business to avoid.  But, whoever is the keeper of the list better be an alt with no business connections.

[Irene Muni]

Linden Lab Official:I rented a land parcel from another Resident (either on the Mainland or in a private region) and it's being taken back from me, even though I've paid the agreed-upon fees or rent. -> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:I_rented_a_land_parcel_from_another_Resident_%28either_on_the_Mainland_or_in_a_private_region%29_and_it%27s_being_taken_back_from_me,_even_though_I%27ve_paid_the_agreed-upon_fees_or_rent.

Linden Lab does not enforce or uphold rental agreements between Residents.

Please contact the Resident with whom you have a dispute, andrequest that they make good on the deal. While you may have a validagreement with another person, Linden Lab is not a party to and cannotresolve your dispute.

Linden Lab Official:I paid for something, but didn't receive it as promised. Or: I provided something, but wasn't paid for it as promised. -> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:I_paid_for_something,_but_didn%27t_receive_it_as_promised._Or:_I_provided_something,_but_wasn%27t_paid_for_it_as_promised.

We're sorry: Linden Lab cannot verify, enforce, certify, examine,uphold, or adjudicate any oath, contract, deal, bargain, or agreementmade by the Residents of Second Life. Please contact the Resident withwhom you have a dispute, and request that they make good on the deal.While you may have a valid agreement with another person, Linden Lab isnot a party to and cannot resolve your dispute.

[Toy LaFollette]

SL BBB has been tried several times but since it has no teeth and subject to ARs itself its failed.  Best option is the 3rd party sights, cant be ARd for posting on them.  Ithink the OP is out of luck as far as the money situation and land however it could be ARd for use of a club on a homestead sim.

[Stacy Maracas]

6K A WEEK.......

 

Also, I am not about Defaming anyone nor is that my intention, but I was legitimately ripped off, and I feel that others should know about it.  Please know that since I have brought this to light, others have messaged me in world, and I now have written statements, not just from any other residents but prominent business owners and long standing members of the SL Community that have also been ripped off by this person.....

I feel so stupid, as long as I have been here to have been bamboozled, but rest assured I am not gonna stop till this dude is out of business....

I cant stand a thief, between the copybotters and the idiots that helped ruin our SL Commerce by gaming traffic with bots, there is too many thieves on SL as it is.

[Stacy Maracas]

Thank you Irene

So in that same manner, I can keep the place lit on fire.....and not a dang thing he can do about it lol

[Irene Muni]

You're welcome.

It's the old problem and debate betwwen "buy" in mainland or "rent" in private region. I'm sorry you had that problem.

[Tolya Ugajin]

6K a week is ridiculous for half a homestead, let alone paid 3 months in advance.

My standard rate is 16K/month for the same space.  I sent you a notecard in-world. Give me a shout and I can cut you a deal.

[Mitzy Shino]

6K? Yikes that is high, 12K for an entire homestead, per week? You can get a get an entire homestead to yourself for 7k if you look around.

[Mitzy Shino]

only until he boots you from the sim and returns all your items.

[Katheryne Helendale]

Stacy.Maracas wrote:

 

6K A WEEK.......

HOLY CRAP!!!

At prevailing exchange rates, that's about US$96 per month! If I'm not mistaken, you can buy your own homestead for not much more than this (well, the initial purchase will be much higher, but your monthly tier would only be around US$125).

Renting is always a risky proposition. You can minimize that risk by knowing who you're dealing with and being able to judge that person's integrity and solvency. Someone who owns and directly maintains a large multi-sim estate is not going to be likely to bilk his or her tenants or disappear in the middle of the night, whereas the risk goes up considerably with someone who only owns a couple of random homesteads because he or she has much less to lose by scamming or fleeing.

At any rate, I would never pay more than one month in advance. Some estate managers won't even let you pay more than that.

[Tolya Ugajin]

I had a landlord once.  Paid 20K to "buy" 1/4 sim, plus the tier of roughly $100USD/mo.  The deal was supposedly I could turn around and resell the land myself.  Well, after about 5 months there I decided to move in with my girl, who owns a full sim and a homestead.   I was a week into the tier.  I put the land up for sale.  He came and reposessed the land, and when I complained, banned me from it despite my having paid the tier.  He resold it in less than a week, and despite the fact that I was supposed to be able to "sell" the land and keep the proceeds, I didn't get a penny of that either.  I'm just glad I had moved my stuff off before he banned me, because I know he would not have returned it.

Live and learn.  Most important thing in renting is know your landlord, or get references BEFORE you pay a penny.  Because, at the end of the day, your land rights are what the owner says they are, and they can change them whenever they want.

[Lizard Howl]

Tolya.Ugajin wrote:

Live and learn.  Most important thing in renting is know your landlord, or get references BEFORE you pay a penny.  Because, at the end of the day, your land rights are what the owner says they are, and they can change them whenever they want.

 

Tolya is correct.

Also, paying more than a week or so up front, especially to someone you havent dealt with before, is risky.

The Lindens will not help you if an Estate Owner takes your tier.

In this case though I wonder what really happened here.

Stacy did you assume there would be no clubs placed in the sim, or did you agree to a Covenant that was later changed?

If the Estate Owner changed the Covenant that's one thing, if you made an assumption that's slightly different.

Does it make sense to put a club in a Homestead? Absolutely not. Can it happen? Sure.

Better luck next time.

Lizard Howl

Segarra Estates Owner