How do we get respondents to Questions to use common courtesy

[Daria Afterthought]

Because it is fun. And inevitable.

[Daria Afterthought]

Because it is fun. And inevitable.

[Baeric Constantine]

The world consists of a diversity of people and viewpoints... some based in reality others not... some may be seen to be spam or flaming... but often if there is an offence, that offence lies within the person taking the offence.

You posted the rules about abusing the moderation process... it all hinges on what abuse means... I personally have posted a thread asking where other threads have gone, because I did not understand and it was explained... yet this was not an abuse.

The same with flaming spamming abusing etc... some people speak the minds, some people are diplomatic, some are lurkers and just read...

The world consists of many people... we also need to be tolerant, open to others, as we can be inciting flaming too... i.e. swapping railing for railing. Thus, if you think you are being flamed... dont continue with it, report it... let Linden Research decide it.

We are responsible for our own actions - well maybe all

[Eternus Soulstar]

dont ask questions that google or the search here can answer

dont ask questions that are thinly veiled attempts at garnering sympathy for a pet cause or gripe

dont add yet one more to the bajillion threads about emerald being maybe the antichrist of viewers

 

also any question, bar none, that is anything at all but a very strictly technical question... in short anything at all about which there can be more than one opinion... is guaranteed to generate debate, and the core of debate is that people disagree, and thats where that 'spirited discussion' specifically allowed in the ToS comes in.  get used to it, it ain't going away.

[Glimmering Sands]

I sympathize with your points.  I think the unfortunate answer is that either forums are open or they are not.  Freedom is a messy thing.  I do not think there is a thing you have suggested I would disagree with.  I would hope all would think like you do.  But in this world it is not true.  There are a great many opinions, some better than others, and no universal judgement.  Some come to these forums to ask questions, some come to learn, some come for entrainment, others to entertain (be it themselves, their friends, or the community at large).  Some, honestly, come to be disruptive and build their own self image or tear down others.  While I can suggest these are potential motives, I cannot suggest the motive for any particular person.  Only they know that.

I believe any forum of open and free communication will evolve/devolve based on those who participate and those who are rewarded.  Spoken (or written) words have no value.  Words that are heard (or read) do.

Open and free communication is not always the best course of action, though I would hate to see a world where it was typically not an option.  To me it appears these forums are more about a social network loosely contrived on sharing information and a place to seek advice about Second Life.  One should question why this particular forum must even exist.  The same can be asked of the LSL Wiki.  They both share an important component.  Linden Labs does not provide the answers that their customers ask and require.  They often do not even provide the basic information to be able to discover the correct answer.  Instead, they have provided a open town square, with occasional authority, for people to try to resolve these questions for themselves.  I guess, as it is a "game," finding the answers might be considered part of the game play.

I should note also, you even get points for the number of times you post here.  There certainly must be some people who view that the goal of the game of forums is to get the highest number possible.  That is game theory, after all

In the end, we all will vote with our browsers.  Either we view (and possibly participate with) what goes on here or we don't.  Personally, I think I may have voted wrong.

[Baeric Constantine]

Eternus.Soulstar wrote:

dont add yet one more to the bajillion threads about emerald being maybe the antichrist of viewers

I love this one hahha

[Kyra Ishtari]

Elijah,

I understand and completely agree with your point in asking this, but the problem is a complex one.  I, too, am from a generation where being expected to say "please" and "thank you" and calling people sir or ma'am was the norm, not the polite exception.  However, that time has come and gone and the world is an ever changing place and with those changes, the moral compass that many people once guided their lives with is becoming a distant memory. And honestly, while it may seem like it, SL is not localized to one nation or even English speaking ones.  And, with that cultural diversity comes and even more expansive set of manners and social graces or lack there of.

Many cultures outside of English speaking ones, I have noticed, don't care about how they treat other players nor if they wait their turn or do anything that we would consider common courtesy.  It drives me up the wall, to be perfectly honest.  My mute list is longer than my arm and seems to grow at an alarming rate!

And let's face it, we're the polite relics from an age gone by, watching a new generation of people who don't hold themselves accountable for hurting others or plowing them over to do or say whatever rude or thoughtless thing they want.  Distressing, I know, but it is, unfortunately, the state of the world today.

[Roxy Couturier]

Elijah.Jumanya wrote:

 

I have been an avid reader of the Q&A threads, I've learned a lot of good things from some of the posters but of late (and yes here we go again) I am seeing respondents to posts Flaming each other, using Vulgarity and and off topic items all of which are Violations of the posted Guidelines.  And to be honest I don't think there are enough Lindens in the world to constantly watch the Blogs and Q&A.

 

And this is the situation LL allowed to germinate. No 'mute' ability, No easy way to report posts in violation and no stickies for posting rules. Look at the steps you yourself took, not only to find the posting rules and post them here, but the distance between the locations.Pardon me if I find it ironic that the easier to use, less need for maintainance software doesnt have the basic functionality of Guild Portal and requires more of an active role on their part.

How do we as a group help others learn what is appropriate and what is inappropriate behavior.  I have filed complaints against the worst offenders but to no avail.  I hear everyone complaining about problems but few offering constructive answers.  I am including some parts of the Guidelines here in hopes of spurring some thought and positive discussion about this.

 

What can -you- do to make the blogrums a better place?

A. Dont be a tard. This isnt directed at you OP, but in general. In other words, don't be a jackass and others wont be jackasses back.

B. Limit your offensitivity (the inability to -not- take offense at something even mildly or inadvertently offensive). It doesn't belong in any adult to adult communication.

C. Don't be a forum equivalent of a hall monitor. It's not your job. This isnt to say don't speak out, but learn to recognize the source of a problem as opposed to the signs of a problem.

D. If you take a stand, be sure that it's a hill you're willing to die on. Seriously, be sure.

E. If you must report, report the instigator, not the responder. That is, some people post purely to elicit negative posts. This is the essence of trolling. Don't report the people calling another names, report the one inciting them to do so.

I am of an older generation that was raised to say please and thank you, to treat others with respect.  And to say to ourselves "would I want this done or said to me?" and if the question is no then not to say or do it.  I am also not of the thinking that "I have to do it to them, before they do it to me".  And I know that many out there agree.

I am pleading with all here to begin using manners and courtesy when dealing with others, your behavior here reflects your behavior in-world and in RL and I don't know about you but I would never want to be treated the way some treat others.

 

And I was raised to say something to someone else's children when they acted out. Sometimes you need to be an adult in an adult world. I dont suffer jackasses in any aspect of my life.. RL, SL or these (or any other) forums. Nor do I plan on treating anyone other than as an adult. I do however, expect the same in return.

The best that can be hoped for is to keep things civil. The thing is, while you or I might not want to be an ass, some people absolutely thrive on being the center of attention. Good or bad, being nice doesn't always work and it's time to get the stern, adult voice out. YMMV.

[Irene Muni]

I agree with you Elijah.

[Marx Dudek]

The simple answer?  "You get what you pay for.  Or more correctly, what LL pays for."

Which is nil.

Such is the nature of an all-volunteer "staff" who essentially clock-in and out when they feel like it.  Some are bright-eyed and bushy tailed.  Some are bushy-eyed and smart arsed.  Some will tell you to "RTFM" because the question has already been asked and answered (and archived) 10 times in the past week.  But LL's paid tech support would tell you the same thing if you file a support ticket asking a question which has already been definitely answered online by LL staff.  They just wouldn't sign it "UR MOM".

[Unklebob Hotaling]

There are going to be people who feel they are here for no other purpose that to judge the people who post, or even judge the question asked - as if any of that, is even their business.  Who knows why they think they have that god given, or Linden given right... i often wonder why why they are even here sometimes given the impatience I've seen as if answering a question several times over is an actual *gasp* hardship imposed upon them and them only.  No clue, guess i'd be less than honest to suggest i've always been perfect or ever-patient... all part of being human i suppose, the good the bad and the ugly.

[Ciaran Laval]

There's a jira asking for a mute feature, that may be of some assistance:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1074

Other than that, you just need to ignrore those comments you find offensive, getting into a debate about it generally just makes the situation worse, if you don't like someone's comments, gloss over them as best you can.

[Marx Dudek]

Imagine if LL rewarded points with free mainland tier or a small reward stipend per month depending on points.  Given that gaming wouldn't be a problem, I'm sure you'd see attitudes improve some. 

[Braden Tedeschi]

Thank you, Eternus.

[Ishtara Rothschild]

Many cultures outside of English speaking ones, I have noticed, don't care about how they treat other players

 

Oh so very thinly veiled. Luckily, that kind of colonialist thinking is something younger generations got rid of along with that precious moral compass thingy. Perhaps they threw out the good with the bad there, I don't know. But I'm certainly glad they threw this part out.

[Ishtara Rothschild]

we as a group

 

Who as a what now? This is Second Life. The only large scale group activities that happen here are witch hunts and lynch mob gatherings.

[Irene Muni]

Kyra.Ishtari escribió:

 

Many cultures outside of English speaking ones, I have noticed, don't care about how they treat other players nor if they wait their turn or do anything that we would consider common courtesy.  It drives me up the wall, to be perfectly honest.  My mute list is longer than my arm and seems to grow at an alarming rate!

What??? Are you sure the courtesy/discourtesy is a problem of English speakers and No English speakers???

I'm from Spain. There are spanish speakers incivility in the same proportion of English speakers, German speakers, or Typonese speakers.

[Sandra Frascati]

Thre is a lot of litter yes. But i have yet to see someone ask a serious question that wasn't answered seriously. It aint broke so nothing to fix

[Qie Niangao]

This is Second Life. The only large scale group activities that happen here are witch hunts and lynch mob gatherings.

You haven't spent much time on Zindra, have you?

[Eternus Soulstar]

and this is not a jackets and ties affair.  it's a bar, and Lexie and Blue are the bouncers.

[Morrigan Blackadder]

Hi Elijah,

I have to agree with you. I know I'm bound to get a negative response from at least one person for saying that, but that seems to be the course of this forum. The Q&A are meant to do just that, but many reply with rude comments that are of course not helpful. I have done my fair share in responding to these posts negatively and wish now I haven't. Best thing to do is bypass the comments that are not helpful, pretend you didn't see it. And don't respond, that is where the flaming starts. Most do it to defend themselves then wind up at the same level of the person that put the negative reply.

Ok done with my 2L worth

~Morri~

[Harlett Daines]

I found the blogs when I was searching for an answer to a specific question.  After finding the answer, many thanks to those who take the time to help, I surfed around a bit.  I found many entries negative, rude, and full of people getting drunk on their own drink.  I simply opt out of them now--except I was curious when I saw the title to your post on my log-in page.  It's not so complicated to be respectful but since it seems too much to ask people in a public forum, I just only look for what I need and forget the rest.  Elijah, your point is well taken.

[Dax Dover]

How do we as a group help others learn what is appropriate and what is inappropriate behavior.

I believe the best way to teach behavior (good or bad) is by example. I have learned that being civil to others won't make them, or anyone else, behave civilly, unless they already have the desire or motivation to do so.

I am of an older generation that was raised to say please and thank you, to treat others with respect. 

I know many teens and people in their 20s who know how to treat others with respect too, so I don't believe this is something only the "older" generation knows how to do, but I know where you're coming from.

I am pleading with all here to begin using manners and courtesy whendealing with others, your behavior here reflects your behavior in-worldand in RL and I don't know about you but I would never want to betreated the way some treat others.

I think a lot of respondents who use the forums and discussion blogs don't really care about responding seriously. (Perhaps, to them, this place is just an extension of the "game"?)  Also, being anonymous allows even more room for incivility.

Finally, I believe that there are many more respectful people on these forums than there appears to be.  It's just that they don't post as often, or they are reluctant to post.  I know that, after a long time of reading the discussions, it took me a very long time to finally get up the courage to post something.  I suspect I am not alone in that regard.

Off-topic but related personal story....  When I was in freshman year of high school, I was considered a "goody-two-shoes".  I was constantly being made fun of because I was one of the smartest and most well-behaved kid in class.  So of course I was every teacher's pet.  Because I was shunned by most of my classmates for being a good kid, occasionally I would deliberately rebel and do something "bad" just to show everyone that I could do it. Nothing horrible, just little things like strolling in late, or not wearing some part of the school uniform. Finally I got called in to the principal's office for something I did and after that I was "accepted" and never bothered again. I was free to be "good" again, which I happily did.  I learned from that experience that it was much more fun to be "good" than "bad".  But I also learned that some people think it's more fun to be "bad"!  C'est la vie.

You are not alone.  Like you, I prefer to be civil and respectful. My suggestion would be to continue doing what you are doing - be civil and report offenders. And thank you! 

[Ishtara Rothschild]

You haven't spent much time on Zindra, have you?

Of course there's that special kind of group act ivities   But that's not really large scale. I haven't found anything beyond 4some animations yet, and you can only get so many people into a sim.

[Daria Afterthought]

Kyra.Ishtari wrote:

 

Many cultures outside of English speaking ones, I have noticed, don't care about how they treat other players nor if they wait their turn or do anything that we would consider common courtesy.  It drives me up the wall, to be perfectly honest.  My mute list is longer than my arm and seems to grow at an alarming rate!