New Linden Lab / Second Life Mesh Avatars!!

[Coby Foden]

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KarenMichelle Lane wrote:

Is Sara the new Ruth?

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Yes, she is. And also the other new female starter mesh avatars - all Ruths.

Now we are not stuck with one single Ruth but we have a choice what Ruth to wear. Amazing!  :smileytongue: :smileyvery-happy:

[Sassy Romano]

Well as far as UV maps go, they're nothing like the SL avatar and they're different between the avatars.  I've looked at 4, 2 of them share the same UV map but so far that's 3 different UV maps and I expect it's all a bit of "whatever we felt like" per avatar rather than some cohesive plan.

If you're interested, you can apply these UUID's to a prim and have a look:-

49d4de41-9147-c78f-76a0-86c9d423ae15

b8cdff56-7dc0-3abc-7185-8e261e19d1b1

7ab7dd08-5c39-518d-3171-2419d7328788

Before anyone gets uptight, anyone can do this, you just need to understand how the cache works.

 

[Pamela Galli]

Ebbe tweeted that it was a mistake to make them no mod, and they are going to fix that.

[Coby Foden]

Oh no! :smileysurprised:  Now we need new category in the Marketplace.

*Skins and stuff for the Linden Lab released Starter Fitted Mesh Avatars.*

:smileyvery-happy:  :smileytongue:  :smileywink:

[Phil Deakins]

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Coby Foden wrote:

Yeah, I'm sure that Sara, being 1.85 meters [6 feet 53/64 inches] tall female, is way too short for your furniture. :smileywink:

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Let's not start that up again lol. I did think of shortening me to match a typical male-female couple - that's all it needs for positioning animations - but I do need to use taller ones so that I can make sure such things as legs or feet don't disappear inside the furniture and walls. Yes walls for kitchen units 

[Perrie Juran]

 

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Ebbe tweeted that it was a mistake to make them no mod, and they are going to fix that.

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I couldn't find that Tweet but this one got me curious.  I don't know enough about mesh. Can the hands be fixed with a slider??????

But that was really not what I wasn't going to post about.

The reality as I see it is that this is where LL sees the future of the Avatar going.  Not in the customizing we've all been doing individually all along with the current Ava.  We are simply going to cover it up.

The problem right now though is there isn't enough content available for people to individualize their Ava's if they want to go with a Mesh Ava.

So any newb wanting to customise is going to have to quickly ditch this.

You have to answer the question, "Why do people want to customise?"

It's because we all want to be seen as individuals. 

And there simply isn't enough content out there for people to satisfy that desire to individualize themselves with the Mesh Ava's.

So it's going to be a rough and long transition.

And the potential for SL breaking into two camps is very strong.  Those who embrace Mesh Ava's and those who don't.

 

[Pamela Galli]

Interesting that he thinks this is a small mistake.  I sent out a no mod kitchen update once and I thought it was a colossal mistake. :-)

[Coby Foden]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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Coby Foden wrote:

Yeah, I'm sure that Sara, being 1.85 meters [6 feet 53/64 inches] tall female, is way too short for your furniture. :smileywink:

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Let's not start that up again lol.

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Yeah, let's not start that again, enough has been said already. Happy oversizing. :matte-motes-big-grin: :smileywink:

[Perrie Juran]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Interesting that he thinks this is a small mistake.  I sent out a no mod kitchen update once and I thought it was a colossal mistake. :-)

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And that just says for the shape.  So as far as the UV Maps and other things so you could do skins, etc. etc are not an option.

[Qie Niangao]

Note that it's the shape that was supposed to be mod, not the mesh itself. That's easier for users than replacing the supplied no-mod shape, so that's an improvement (I think).

Had the mesh been mod, there'd be that whole new industry of "skins 'n' stuff" for these avatars. That would have been okay, too (and what I'd originally expected, somehow) but I'm not sure these models are really good enough to be worth the effort. I mean, the skins certainly could be much improved, but consider those feet: no skin can cover up that mess.

[Coby Foden]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

The reality as I see it is that this is where LL sees the future of the Avatar going.  Not in the customizing we've all been doing individually all along with the current Ava.  We are simply going to cover it up.

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I certainly hope not for this being the future of the avatar. Implementing excellent new default avatar shape would be a much better solution. It would be a win situation for all.

The released starter mesh avatars really are horrible. Frozen faces, eyes and eyelids. Frozen hands. They look like zombies, nothing lifelike in them at all. Then the complication in skinning and clothing mesh avatars. What a mess it would be. Nothing is standard, every mesh avatar needs skins and clothing specifically made for it.

*THIS IS NOT A GOOD SIGN*

[Perrie Juran]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Note that it's the

shape

that was supposed to be mod, not the mesh itself. That's easier for users than replacing the supplied no-mod shape, so that's an improvement (I think).

Had the mesh been mod, there'd be that whole new industry of "skins 'n' stuff" for these avatars. That would have been okay, too (and what I'd originally expected, somehow) but I'm not sure these models are really good enough to be worth the effort. I mean, the skins certainly could be much improved, but consider those feet: no skin can cover up that mess.

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One of my friends constantly states that if there is any proof SL was designed by men its the feet.  "No woman would have ever allowed such a travesty."

[Perrie Juran]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

The reality as I see it is that this is where LL sees the future of the Avatar going.  Not in the customizing we've all been doing individually all along with the current Ava.  We are simply going to cover it up.

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I certainly hope not for this being the future of the avatar. Implementing 

excellent new default avatar shape

would be a much better solution. It would be a win situation for all.

The released starter mesh avatars really are horrible. Frozen faces, eyes and eyelids. Frozen hands. They look like zombies, nothing lifelike in them at all. Then the complication in skinning and clothing mesh avatars. What a mess it would be. Nothing is standard, every mesh avatar needs skins and clothing specifically made for it.

*THIS IS NOT A GOOD SIGN*

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Oh, I agree with you.

But I can see no other plausible explanation for many recent decisions when you put them all together.

LL continues to leave us in the dark as to their plans and goals.

Look at how long they responded with silence regarding the Mesh Deformer and fixing the currrent Ava mesh and then bingo, here's what we're doing.

Yes, it is not a good sign.

 

 

[Bryce Davenport]

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Coby Foden wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

The reality as I see it is that this is where LL sees the future of the Avatar going.  Not in the customizing we've all been doing individually all along with the current Ava.  We are simply going to cover it up.

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" Implementing 

excellent new default avatar shape

would be a much better solution. It would be a win situation for all." 

 

I disagree with that statement ...  We have long needed a new avatar, these would work IF LL did a few more things. It could eaisly be the same for creators as the old default or "classic " avatar if LL would just do a little more work on the back end of things ... These new avatars have the potential to have two arms ! among other great improvements. LL could make it so and from a creation stand point we wouldn't even notice that big of a difference ... Make the avatars contestant, gives us the UV maps, make all of the moph sliders work in the edit appearance (for shapes) double the mesh on the avatar so alpha maps could be used on another layer (like tattoos do for skin) , for goodness sake add more bones so we can animate fingers, toes, lips etc........ Get creators to help make things for the avatars you use to attract new users instead of LL employees that dont have alot of time on the clock to create ... 

[Pamela Galli]

Oh okay I misread.  No clue why the mesh itself should not be mod as well. I know little about wearble mesh of any kind.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

And the potential for SL breaking into two camps is very strong.  Those who embrace Mesh Ava's and those who don't.

 

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I think SL broke into two camps on about the second week of the closed beta in 2002. The number of camps the mesh avatar/no mesh avatar divide will represent requires scientific notation.

Next thing you know people will start doing things like covering up the default skin textures with opaque tattoo textures and replacing good old system hair with worn objects ----------------- oh, wait...

[Marianne Little]

To compare LL mesh avatars with what's on the market, you can pick up a free demo of the WoWmeh mesh body. This is a headless body. You wear the standard SL head with it, and have the moving eyes and the possibility to use the facial expressions. You can also keep all the makeup layers, beards and hairbases and other things to customize your head.

The body reacts to not just the bones, but to fat, muscle, breast, butt, saddlebags and love handles. The updates isto constant,. now it is version 3.0 And 2 bodies in the pack now,  a body that follows the sl shape, and an exaggerated one for those who want bigger than size 100 in breasts and butt.

The very interesting thing is that it has alpha layers controlled via HUD. So you can adjust a lot of mesh clothes  fit. Not all mesh of course. The items that was most difficult for me, is small shorts. The alpha layers can not fit every different garment on the market. Under is shown WoWmeh with slink hands and feet, default sl head and no clothing made for it - only ordinary mesh clothing for standard avatars. Shown is version 2.8, the arms is updated since this image is taken.

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

And the potential for SL breaking into two camps is very strong.  Those who embrace Mesh Ava's and those who don't.

 

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I think SL broke into two camps on about the second week of the closed beta in 2002. The number of camps the mesh avatar/no mesh avatar divide will represent requires scientific notation.

Next thing you know people will start doing things like covering up the default skin textures with opaque tattoo textures and replacing good old system hair with worn objects ----------------- oh, wait...

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Oh, I already see two camps in SL but for the most part they are peacefully coexisting.

Those who wear mesh and those who won't (don't like how its fits).

I'm not going to try and assign percentages to it though.

[Perrie Juran]

Well, I just finished trying some of them on.

No one needs to worry about LL trying to go into the Mesh Ava business.

Nor trying to make clothes, skins, etc to fit them.

Take some time to try them on.

I don't know what LL is doing but it isn't trying to sell people on the idea of mesh Ava's.

They are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad.

Kudo's to the Lab!

[Amie Kaestner]

Can you move the fingers on these ones? Do they have a wider variety of expressions? Custom joints?

... No? Frrt.

[Evie Falconer]

For me is too soon in the development process of this technology to thrust on the new residents.  This just started to appear a a day or so ago and we have newbies buying freebie system skins and clothing and not being able to work out why it doesnt change...taking off alphas and ending up with two bodies...trying to edit shapes and cant work out why it doesnt change much

There doesnt seem to be any guidance with these its just chuck em in and let em get on with it.  The shapes are odd to say the least - weird proportioned hands and feet, strangely shaped faces and just nasty skins

Why didnt we have some decent avatars with nice mesh clothing first and then move onto full fitted mesh bodies once the use was wider spread and the choice of freebies to work with it a bit larger?

Plus you still don't give them any kind of decent ao which is one of the first things any newbie wants!

Too much too soon and leave the ordinary users and merchants to try and help clear it up...

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Evie Falconer wrote:

For me is too soon in the development process of this technology to thrust on the new residents.  This just started to appear a a day or so ago and we have newbies buying freebie system skins and clothing and not being able to work out why it doesnt change...taking off alphas and ending up with two bodies...trying to edit shapes and cant work out why it doesnt change much

There doesnt seem to be any guidance with these its just chuck em in and let em get on with it.  The shapes are odd to say the least - weird proportioned hands and feet, strangely shaped faces and just nasty skins

Why didnt we have some decent avatars with nice mesh clothing first and then move onto full fitted mesh bodies once the use was wider spread and the choice of freebies to work with it a bit larger?

Plus you still don't give them any kind of decent ao which is one of the first things any newbie wants!

Too much too soon and leave the ordinary users and merchants to try and help clear it up...

 

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I started in late 2010. One of the first mysteries to present itself was why I couldn't use the "Edit My Hair" sliders to change the color or length of the mass of yellow sculpts on the head of my Female Student. And yet, here I am still.

Then I started buying clothes. Somewhere in my inventory is a pair of pants with one flare that hangs out behind me like a little black cone-shaped dog because I messed up editing it and didn't know how to get it back.

Didn't have an AO until a friendly soul gave me one. That friendly soul is now my partner.

Eventually I learned enough that I could help others, like my now-close friend who I met when she was wandering around bald and with DEMO stamped on her forehead.

Are the new starter avatars a hot mess in many ways? Will they cause weird, confusing things to happen that will need to be sorted out? Yes. However, if you can't overcome weird and confusing Second Life probably isn't for you anyway - making the new user experience too easy would just be false advertising because weird, confusing things happen in SL just as part of the nature of the beast.

Fortunately, that's where ordinary users and merchants can shine though.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Evie Falconer wrote:

 

There doesnt seem to be any guidance with these its just chuck em in and let em get on with it.  The shapes are odd to say the least - weird proportioned hands and feet, strangely shaped faces and just nasty skins

 

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I've not looked, but most people in SL have hands that are 1/2 to 2/3rds the size they should be, feet as well.

The hand size dial in SL is all messed up - and just does global scale. Men and women's hands are more about things like palm muscle and width, and not just overall scale.

 

[Canoro Philipp]

I understand that the purpose of releasing better shaped avatars is to give new users a better impresion and give them a better image to present themselves.

wouldnt fixing the default avatar accomplish that?

if Linden Lab had the time and skills to create from scratch a more detailed model, they dont have the time and skills to improve the default avatar?

making the default avatar as good as these mesh models would had taken advantage of the sliders, the alpha layers, the physics layer, the clothes layers, and everything that has been done for the avatars thru the existance of SL. all of that would have been inherited and have would keep the spirit of user customization that Second Life stands for, but they decided to cover up the lack of skills and time they have to refine the default avatar, with a more refined avatar that they created themselves.

refining the default avatar would not break any content, it would make all avatars look good, maybe some mesh creators would get affected, like the ones who make mesh hands or feet, but those creators started making them as an effort to provide a solution that Linden Lab refused to do for years. the community had to make the solutions themselves, seeing that waiting years for Linden Lab to fix those problems was hopeless, if Linden Lab finally improved the default avatar, creators should be happy that the frustration that lead them to improve by themselves the avatars is now being taken into account by Linden Lab.

it seems Linden Lab watch close how creators were making parts of avatars to improve the default avatar because the default avatar was a mess, and they decided to do the same, instead of taking the hint of fixing it, they cover it too.

i dont know why is impossible to move a triangle of the default avatar shape, and totally possible to move a triangle of another shape, they can, can't they?

[Sassy Romano]

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

 

i dont know why is impossible to move a triangle of the default avatar shape, and totally possible to move a triangle of another shape, they can, can't they?

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Unless i'm informed otherwise, I suspect that the answer is that Linden Lab did NOT create these avatars but simply outsourced it to a couple of tame creators in return for some other favour.

LL has no interest or time, easy to pass it off to someone else, alpha everything out and say "there you are!".  Remember, the last tranche of new user avatars came from Adam and Eve, not LL that time either.