Real World Credit Processing time.

[Pamela Galli]

I dont see any reason for anyone in this discussion to start name calling or casting aspersions.  The point is that there is no agreement on the issue. I am fine with delayed cashouts, you are not. I dont think that makes either of us defective, it just means we have different priorities and interests.

 

[Medhue Simoni]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

That I agree to LL's terms does not mean I have a slave mentality, it means that my margins are so high here I do not at all mind them taking the tiny cuts they do.  The interest they earn even on large sums these days is not enough to matter to me.

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I did not say that, nor did I reference you in any way. I think your position is valid. As I said, my argument has to do with the affect on the economy. Whether Lota is referencing you, I have no idea. I referenced the statement that it was just like RL. IMHO, it is a slave's mentality, as the person doesn't see or take into account the value they bring. There is no reason to differ payment. If the person wants the product now, then they pay you now. If they can not, then there is no reason to do business. If we are talking about a contract where you agree to be paid on a specific day, then that is a contract, and has nothing at all to do with a merchant. A merchant has no valid reason to differ payment. To do so is forgetting the value you bring to the table.

In Detroit, every single auto supplier differs payment for 90 days. The auto companies force them to, as they are their biggest customer. This is a lopsided relationship, which is not good for either party, and puts every1 at risk. Whether you are talking about a large scale like this, or a small scale, like a 5 day period, it all results in negative impacts to the economy.

LL's 3 days, or 5, or whatever, is not a contract, as we could sue them for breaking it. That is a valid distinction. The bottom line is that we are all doing business, and when I'm told, whether in contract or not, that I will be paid on this or that day, then it better be there, or our relationship will be strained. If the other party decide to make the relationship better by paying more consistantly, then all parties benefit.

[Pamela Galli]

It is all relative. Maybe I dont see it because the only other job I have had was as a school teacher in a low paying, non union state where every state budget was balanced on teachers' backs.  Talk about feeling abused, overworked, underpaid, and with NO recourse for anything other than quitting. (And yet still the best job in the world!) 

 

 

 

 

 

[Iota Ultsch]

I referenced that statement too.

 

In saying so, nobody has the power to insult another if there is no element of truth in what is said.

 

I stand by my summation of the subject at hand which is more about inequity in business trading and NOTHING to do with someone else's willingness to wait, and wait, and wait for payment, which in my mind, is in fact not a virtue, but a slavish attribute which contributes to ALL problems in society.

 

EITHER BREAK THE ABUSE CYCLE or DEAL WITH IT! 

 

[Medhue Simoni]

Well, maybe I don't see the insult as I see us all as slaves, trapped in slave systems. The question is whether we see the cages we put ourselves in. Personally, I hate to see people undervalue themselves. It's almost painful to see it in children. I want to see people be the best they can be, and not except complacensy. To be confident, and not fearful. This is why I love to teach, and make tutorials and stuff. There is nothing better than watching a kid, or any1, realize just how valuable and powerful they can be.

[Pamela Galli]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

 There is nothing better than watching a kid, or any1, realize just how valuable and powerful they can be.

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No, nothing I have ever experienced. That is what makes being a parent and/or teacher so deeply rewarding, no matter how difficult and underpaid the work. 

[Iota Ultsch]

Medhue, I have to say, your words resonate. Only I'm not as patient or as gracious as you. LOVE that you care about humanity. I do too...until my freedom is encroached upon by hypocrites.

[Medhue Simoni]

Sorry, but I also want to point out that I make the argument from the point of the economy, because I think it is the only totally valid argument. Valid, because it affects and benefits both parties. It's almost pointless to make arguments that only benefit 1 party. What reason does the other party have, other than to make you happy, to correct the problem? My argument is that if LL allocated the right amount of people to handle payouts within their 3 day window, the benefit to the economy would be enough to cover the cost of the need allocation.

One of the biggest sectors that are affected by the delays, are those starting out, who will always be strapped for cash. When a turnover is only 3 days, decisions on moving forward with ventures can be done much more quickly, hence resulting in more ventures beginning. When you wait a week, then you talk to clients or investors, now you are talking more time, and more indecisions. 1 thing that I think most corporation tend to forget over time, is that it is the little guy can grow your business just as fast as the big guys can. When you add in delays, and restrictions, you favor the bigger guys.

Sorry Pam, I wasn't directing this comment at you. Don't know why it chose you to reply to.

[Darrius Gothly]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Medhue and Darrius, two of my favorite people, are able to disagree without insulting everyone who disagrees with them.  You might try growing up/a pair  and try to emulate them.

 

And to reiterate my position:  If LL wanted to delay my payment a month, it would be fine with me, not because I have a slave mentality but for other reasons it is not safe to mention publicly.

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Thank you, Pamela. Like Medhue, I do sometimes manage to infuriate people for mysterious and unclear reasons. However sometimes I enrage them for totally obvious reasons too. (Shhhh! And sometimes on purpose even. *grin*)

One thing I have learned about the Cashout Issue is that it is something very emotional for a lot of people. Personally my income from SL is small enough and sporadic enough that high speed cashouts are not of great importance to me. But even so I do become passionate about this subject because it "feels" as though Linden Lab is using their position of authority to force unfair conditions on us.

I have always objected to those in a position of authority that abuse that privilege. Authority is something that should be earned, even when the authority is automatically granted due to the nature of the relationship. In fact, those in positions of automatic authority (such as banks and other financial institutions .. or those acting as such) should be even more intent on making sure they both earn and retain the respect of their underlings.

They should also act as though that authority could be taken away at any second. IMO this results in a method of doing business that not only promotes intense customer loyalty, but further to the point it results in steadily increasing income as more and more customers are added to the rolls and the existing customers increase their investment/patronage.

Linden Lab does indeed have an automatic authority in the case of cashouts. In fact they recently took action against 3rd party businesses that now prevents them from performing the cashout process themselves. This had the rather chilling effect of creating and ensuring that LL has a monopoly on the process. While I do recognize that an argument exists that they were forced to make such changes for legal and financial liability reasons, it does not lessen my insistence that they act in an exemplary manner in all situations that involve customer's money.

[Iota Ultsch]

Darrius. Perfectly put. OK. I'm leaving this conversation hoping that it reaches the right ears and not some drama queen who wants to turn this into a topic about their obedience and penchant for abuse.

 

Thank you for participating and shedding some light and empathy on the subject. 

[Darrius Gothly]

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Iota Ultsch wrote:

[..] 

In saying so, nobody has the power to insult another if there is no element of truth in what is said. [..]

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Unfortunately this statement, although posted quite often on forums, message boards and public discussions, is totally false. The old joke where someone asks the politician "So, have you stopped beating your spouse and waking up drunk in the gutter yet?" points out quite eloquently how wrong it is to assume insult can be taken only from true or partially true statements.

The suggestion that the politician has been beating their spouse and/or is such a drunk that they wake up in the gutter often is incredibly insulting. In fact, its absolute falsehood is the source of the insult.

Yes, people should always do their best to temper their responses and should try very hard not to take offense at anything said here or in similar situations, but the reality is that when casting aspersions or making broadly sweeping inferences that can be construed as insulting, many people will step up and call "foul" in the interchange.

[Iota Ultsch]

Which is what I did. Stepped up. But I see your point. And on that note, once again....thank you for your contribution to the discussion.

[Medhue Simoni]

Well, I think often the context is missed, which isn't any1's fault, as we can't read each other's minds. For instance, If I say you are thinking like a slave, knowing full well that I do the same thing, is it an insult? What I simply mean is that it is not a positive way at looking at a situation and we might do better to think differently about it.

This brings up a funny situation that happen to me recently. My best friend, whom I've adored for 25+ years, and I are out for drinks. Another female friend happens into the bar and we all gab away. Both are vegetarians, so they gab about that, and I listen. Then we switch topics to something my best friend thinks is ridiculous, and mentions her distaste in our conclusions, and doesn't even want to hear the arguments, as it is not mainstream. She asks why every1 thinks differently, and I reply, "ignorance". My best friend replies, "Are you saying I'm ignorant?". OMG, did I just stick my foot in my mouth, and OMG the look she was giving me. I came back with, "Aren't we all ignorant about some things? I don't know a dang thing about vegetarianism, so I have to differ to you". I'm not totally sure that I dodged that 1 without reprecussions. lol

[Pamela Galli]

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Iota Ultsch wrote:

 I'm leaving this conversation hoping that it reaches the right ears and not some drama queen who wants to turn this into a topic about their obedience and penchant for abuse.

 

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My purpose in posting in (some of) these threads -- as I do in the "tier is too expensive" threads -- is to make the point that there is in fact no consensus. Not that LL is reading these threads trying to make up their minds what we think so they can adjust their policies accordingly, but just so that the wrong impression is not given.

 

Certainly I do not post in order to name call. 

[AnaisAigner]

You don't need consensus (which is an appalling situation in most business contexts) to influence real change.

You said above you would be ok with a month wait.   Why?   Seriously, why would you be ok with any third party company you are transacting through holding your income for that length of time.