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Real World Credit Processing time.


Iota Ultsch
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Just wondering why the real world processing of payments takes soooooo long.
I really think it's unsustainable and a tad rude. Linden Labs makes a cut out of millions of payments each week.
Linden Labs also gets THEIR payment immediately, so why can we not have our PROCESS CREDIT TIME QUARTERED?
We are in a recession globally, and this affects us all regardless of circumstance. If it means putting on an extra couple of accountants to do the job please do it! It's the polite and moral thing to do, particularly when when it is because of us business owners that Linden Labs continues to thrive.

 

I've been in Second Life since March 2nd 2007, that's 7 years and 2 months. Time to get this issue sorted for us Linden Labs!

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I think it is beyond rude for a company that has the resources to charge us instantly...
I think it is beyond rude for a 24/7 online business with peak days on the weekend closing shop before the weekend.

The reason why they do it is because they can. It is an abusive use of a monopoly and if  Linden Labs was located in Europe they would have to pay within 2 business days. Let's not forget that the charge for the currency conversion is the highest conversion surcharge on this planet, let's also not forget that Europeans are force fed PayPal who have the worst USD to EUR rate on this planet. If you withdraw 1000 USD you lose more than 10% which is absolutely insane for a business based on microtransactions. It is beyond rude, it is beyond ignorant and it is beyond acceptable.

The fact that an accountant handles all these matters is making me sick to my stomach. This accountant runs several macros over our transactions to check for unusual transactions and will only in the case of an unusual transaction or illegal funding actively look into our account. This can be automated and everyone with no unusual activity can be waved through and receive money instantly. Those with unusual activity can be manually checked and sorted out.

We all had to sign forms for the IRS regardless if we are Americans or not, they have our Passport/ID on file, they have our adress and payment informations... Even in the case of sending through bad funds they could hold back future funds or charge us directly. This should be good practice for everyone who is withdrawing weekly or more often and never caused a problem. If you withdraw the same amount every week and nothing was wrong in the 7 years of your SL existence, what are the odds something is wrong now? In the end of the day this is supposed to be a counter terrorism method and an anti money laundering precausion from the IRS which makes you wonder if Which store Osama Bin Laden used to run and did he use Lola Appliers or not?

I started withdrawing Money Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays, I receive my money like this
Sundays --> Fridays
Wednesdays - > Wednesdays
Fridays - > Fridays


or longer when there are holidays, they say it is 2-5 business days, somewhere else they say it is 3- 5 business days but it is always 5 days or longer. They promised a year ago to work on it, they are not working on it and they have not even changed the date on their website to at least keept the pretention alive that they care because we don't give them enough hell.

 

LINDENLABS.png

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and again credit processing....

 

there are a lot of threads about this and like it or not, it's how LL works.

Get used to it and change your own schedule, LL won't change.

You need your money friday next week? be sure to sell your lindens today and all will be fine.

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feel free to bend over and accept it, I won't and i don't care how many threads we have on this forum and how long it takes for others to get paid in their real life job situation. I am in the micro transaction business for 16 years and Linden Labs are the one company that let's their customers wait the longest and gives them the least options. This is my business and I will never EVER shut up as long as I am treated unfairly.

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Steph Catseye wrote:

feel free to bend over and accept it, I won't and i don't care how many threads we have on this forum and how long it takes for others to get paid in their real life job situation. I am in the micro transaction business for 16 years and Linden Labs are the one company that let's their customers wait the longest and gives them the least options. This is my business and I will never EVER shut up as long as I am treated unfairly.

I am not telling anyone to stop complaining. Feel free by all means.  You are not alone.

I care far more about LL being able to stop stolen Lindens from being taken out of SL than I do about getting my money instantly, and that is what the delay is for. I am not alone.

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people rant and complain constantly, if you HAD read any other threads about certain people who were coming to SL to fllpflop with bitcoin or to buy these in large sums and cash out, you would realize there was something taking place. the LAB clamped down on this and with the new laws that have went into effect the LAB has to do certain thigns to keep the FEDS off their backs. 

 

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AFAIK, the process credit delay has two reasons: 1. The anti-fraud measures others have mentioned, and 2. The deal betweeen LL and paypal - Each transaction only costs $1, but in return Paypal gets to 'float' your money for 5 days, which means it goes somewhere else in the global economy, and paypal gets the interest. 

I'm also pretty sure that LL isn't allowed to make direct profit from the LindeX - all fees that get charged (minus the $1 that goes to paypal) are used in the maintenance of the exchange.

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bigmoe Whitfield wrote:

people rant and complain constantly, if you HAD read any other threads about certain people who were coming to SL to fllpflop with bitcoin or to buy these in large sums and cash out, you would realize there was something taking place. the LAB clamped down on this and with the new laws that have went into effect the LAB has to do certain thigns to keep the FEDS off their backs. 

 

I have read them and I at least started 5 of them and nobody wants Linden Labs to commit fraud or act as money laundering tool that doesn't mean that an automated process must take 5 days or longer and this is the part where you should actually read peoples complaints instead of ranting on because you have a default opinion about something you seem not to be a victim off.  It is one thing to have a bold opinion or loosing 2000+ USD per year due to bad currency exchange rates and loss of interest. Linden Labs has tools to spot fraud, illegal money and money launderers. A regular shop owner comes out of the routine check without any red flags and could therefore receive the money instantly.

 

Someone with a store who receives several hundred 300L$ transactions for 3+ years who has registered with the IRS, has the passport on file and otherwise never been mentioned negatively does not deserve the same scrutiny as someone who is new and spends or received muiltiple 5 figure or 6 figure sums. In fact they don't deserve the same kind of scrutiny every week all over again nor does the IRS care about people getting away with 50 dollars. The worst case in this store owner scenario is that someone uses illegal money to buy items for a few thousand L$. That would be like 20 to 30 USD which Linden Labs could easily deduct at a later point or charge from the credit card if no funds are available, it does not justify a delay of funds for 5 days period. If one receives larger amounts as usual the accountant comes in the picture and can check where the money came from. This happens once or twice a year and everyone could live with that. There are no security measures for receiving money on Linden Labs side but once they have to pay us we are assumed criminals and everyone who defends these kind of principles has different values as I am. All fine with me but please don't tell me or others to shut up and bend over or assume that everyone should be as liberal when it comes to their money. The BitCoin issue could be solved by banning L$ resellers from accepting it.

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I too haven't read the threads because I don't have the luxury to sit down and read every thread posted on this subject. There is NOTHING wrong with raising the issue again, and again until something is done about it.

My argument is that money talks, and the only way to reform an issue so that it recieves the priority that it deserves is to affect an economy by using OUR money as a tool to demonstrate. 

Whether it is PayPal or Linden Labs is irrelevant.

As mentioned in great detail by a previous poster, there are macros capable of deciphering fraud through numeric patterns. This computation is done instantly. 

The truth of the matter, is that our two phase payment is floated. Real Life banks do the same. It's a detestable practice that all of us have inadvertently accepted through our complacence, when what should've been done from the outset is class action lobbying for new legislation that forbids the practice.

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I doubt you're uploading or withdrawing enough to make the movement matter. 

Money only talks in large quantities. I don't think I'll defer my withdraws because you say I should. Waiting a week or two is just like RL, pace yourself. (And unstable sources of income should never be your #1 source..So it really shouldn't cause a huge issue if they're taking awhile. Otherwise do everything through paypal and cut out LL) It'll make you plan your spending and live a more efficient lifestyle anyway.

 

 

-yawn-

these threads are old, someone should post a money management thread.

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Iota Ultsch wrote:

Yes, this is exactly what I resent...having my earnings floated by ANYONE.

Thank you for your answer. It is exactly what I suspected happened.

Yeah, fair enough. Unfortunately its how our global economy works- all banks are doing it, all the time.

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I agree with you Lota. Yes, there are security measures, but the reason why it takes so long is not because of security measures. LL claims they can handle the transaction in 3 days. So, why does it take 5 days or more? It obviously takes longer because LL doesn't allocate enough people to the job, nor takes the appropriate measures to makes sure it can do the job in a timely fashion.

As far as some saying that it's no different than at a RL job, that's a slave's mentality. Plus, it's not comparing apples to apples, but to oranges. In RL, at a "real" job, you have a contract that says when you get paid. If you are a merchant, you get paid upon delivery of the product. In the real world, I almost always get paid as soon as I deliver the product, or even before. Never does some1 pay me a week later, for things that were sold 2 week ago, after I ask for the money. Part of the reason SL doesn't grow is the lag in pay. If things aren't instant, fewer people are willing to wait. I don't think I probably would have thought about selling products full time if we had not had Xstreet there to get the money right away.

All that said, I think a couple of days is reasonable. On my website, if some1 pays with a credit card, I have to wait 2 days for it to be sent to me. That's not a big deal. Most people pay with PayPal anyways, so it's not a big issue. Like I said, 2-3 days is reasonable. When you start getting into 5 days, that will usually include a weekend, which turns 5 days into 7 actual days. If LL could consistantly deliver in 3 days then I don't think any1 would really complain. This issue is all about LL not allocating the right amount of elves to the task, IMHO.

 

Imagine playing a game, and not receiving your points until a week later. That has the exact same impact in an economy.

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It has been painfully slow lately. Even by LL standards. It improved for a blip earlier this year but quickly returned to normal. I have one Proccess Credit I placed on 30th April that I am still waiting for :(

I think a few days is fair enough but weeks is beyond a joke.

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wow so people didnt joked when said they wait for long time the process of money ...well i hope will fix this becouse is not fair for us t owait mroe then they actually say 2-5 days people might depend of that money they withdraw ..usualy is expected to be trusted this system...so i hope all solves out soon .... i am now on my 3rd day of wait i hope i get them today or atleast friday on term ..

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OzwellWayfarer wrote:

It has been painfully slow lately. Even by LL standards. It improved for a blip earlier this year but quickly returned to normal. I have one Proccess Credit I placed on 30th April that I am still waiting for
:(

I think a few days is fair enough but weeks is beyond a joke.

Ozwell, you really need to open a Support Ticket on this as anything more than 10 business days is an indicator of something "broken". Perhaps they lost the transaction somehow or paid it but the notification email got lost .. or something similar. But really that long is more than likely due to an error somewhere and not the result of LL dragging their feet.

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Like the others that have mentioned this, I too have seen the many threads regarding the slow payments from cashing out. But unlike some of the others, I do not think the issue has been overdone .. yet.

There is a concept mentioned by many that says the delays is so Linden Lab can avoid paying out on Linden Dollars that were obtained via some fraudulent method. While this sounds logical on the surface, it has a few holes in logic that bear closer examination.

First and foremost the real world amount on file in anyone's account can be increased by one of only two methods: either by adding money from an outside source (such as a credit card, debit card, PayPal or some similar method), or by selling Linden Dollars via the LindeX.

If someone uses the first method to increase the real world balance then promptly attempts to cash out, that not only goes against the rules and regulations of most CC companies, but is also easily detected and prevented by LL. All they need to do is place a "Block" on the amount added via external means so that the account holder must leave at least that amount in their account when using "Process Credit" to cash out.

When someone uses the second method, selling L$ via the LindeX, there is the risk that they are attempting to commit some sort of scam or fraudulent transaction, but there are some very accurate and easily performed automatic checks that can be run to prevent this from happening. For example, if there is a sudden explosion of sales income all for one product on the Marketplace (or at least a small number of products) then a quick look at the product's back-detail (date posted, contents, etc.) will go a long way to identifying potentially fraudulent activity.

Other telltale indicators that can be checked automatically are such things as identifying the number of "contributors" to the Linden Dollars sold on the LindeX, the time lag between the previous L$ sale and the current one, and the transaction history and longevity of the account selling the Linden Dollars. It should be noted that a lot of these checks can and should be done at the LindeX, if for no other reason than to protect individuals BUYING Linden Dollars there.

Finally I need to mention that when I transfer money from an account in one bank to an account in a different bank, there is a token fee associated with it (as there is when cashing out to PayPal) but there is also a 3-5 day delay. That delay is very clearly described as being the "best efforts" time delay, and is (in my experience at least) never LESS than the 3 day minimum. However, near as I can tell, the delay is almost always at the sending bank's end and seems to have no purpose other than to increase the amount of time they hold onto my money so they can get the most use out of it first.

While it may seem like the interest or income that can be generated from a paltry $100 USD is too small to really matter, when you consider how much money is being transferred OUT by any institution the amounts become truly staggering numbers in very short order.

In summary, I strongly believe that Linden Lab does impose a small delay to validate that the source of the funds being cashed out is legitimate, I remain firmly convinced that the bulk of the delay is so that they can benefit from the "Float" as much as possible. 

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Brilliant response.

Especially the part about the slave mentality and LL clearly understaffing.

But getting back to the slave mentality....I will never understand why people are so willing to be collared by companies and financial institutions. It's like one is whoring themselves out. The mind boggles!

Then the "slaves" get self-righteous, trying to teach us what? How to be a perfect slave? FFS! Go work like a freak and be treated like one in the little Gorean dungeon you've created for yourselves in RL and let the serious folk who care about your rights do just that!

Glad I vented! LOL

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Medhue and Darrius, two of my favorite people, are able to disagree without insulting everyone who disagrees with them.  You might try growing up/a pair  and try to emulate them.

 

And to reiterate my position:  If LL wanted to delay my payment a month, it would be fine with me, not because I have a slave mentality but for other reasons it is not safe to mention publicly.

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That I agree to LL's terms does not mean I have a slave mentality, it means that my margins are so high here I do not at all mind them taking the tiny cuts they do.  The interest they earn even on large sums these days is not enough to matter to me.

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Medhue and Darrius, two of my favorite people, are able to disagree without insulting everyone who disagrees with them.  You might try growing up/a pair  and try to emulate them.

 

And to reiterate my position:  If LL wanted to delay my payment a month, it would be fine with me, not because I have a slave mentality but for other reasons it is not safe to mention publicly.

Well, that's nice, but I do frequently offend people, not on purpose tho.

I don't have a problem with people differing from my view. I do have a problem with people attacking others for have 1 tho. This is why I frequently defend some1's right to complain.

I can completely understand why some1 is not upset over long waits. Personally, it has never affected me much. My argument always has to do with what it does to the economy. Tho, I do understand when some1 actually does need that money to get by, and see the incentive that fast cash can bring to an economy.

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