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Questions and propose new directions of mesh


DeMarco Galthie
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First I would respectfully state my opinions (I think I owe it to my students ) and raise some points that brought light better clarify the situation of the modeling that has already suffered some time by the current method of rigged ( mesh fitted ) .


1 - What is the level of satisfaction ( by the creators ) of the fitted mesh ? The Fitted mesh was created to give the creators more freedom and increasing sophistication of mesh shapes . It seems that along with the win ( collisions bones ) many problems of technical policy emerged . Affecting the process of RIG Deep . I use blender and I am fan of the freest possible method . I teach my students an automatic method with manual refinement . This process needs to fully align the bones ! No use of any addon or script .

2 - To what end is this project ( seems not finished yet ) .
What is the future of Fetted ? It is desirable to continue to develop a project with complications sing ? If for instance the answer is stated when it will be 100 % functional ? I ask this having a significant quenda the students who come to me to learn modeling for Second Life !

3 - The uses colision Fitted hats , but in practice , many users use these bones ?
Learned that one of the major obstacles to the full implementation of the mesh Deformer was that not affect bone collision . How important for the usurer consumer is ( considering that one of the most sold products are attachable breasts ) ? And what is the opinion of the designers about .

4 - The Mesh defermer I experienced was 100 % functional and was suddenly replaced by mesh Fitted unfortunately that has not yet taken off ! Linden Lab could not use an alternative that would address the two methods ? Keep the fitted mesh associated with mesh deformer option ? Anyone can opt to use the colision bones ( fiited mesh) or Mesh deformer that is not affected by the bones but has a indeice supeior of success!

I hope to expose not only my opnion but mostly my doubts and my students .

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We are just creators here, so no official answers if that is what you are looking for.

I personally don't like fitted mesh -- or at least any that I have tried to date. I know lots of folks that agree.

That being said, when I go out and about into fashionista crowds (shopping venues) I see more fitted mesh being worn than a couple of months ago. I haven't updated to a fitted mesh viewer (I have the LL viewer in a pinch) so I can easily tell who is wearing fitted  mesh. For me it is VERY VERY ugly. I won't be wearing any until almost everyone is on a fitted mesh viewer simply because I don't want to look that bad for all the folks on older viewers. Eventually Firestorm (biggest piece of the viewer pie) will block all but fitted mesh  and beyond viewers. THEN I might wear something.


Again, all I have tried just looks bulky and oversized -- too far away from the body. I don't make clothes, but if I did I would NOT be going to the trouble of learning fitted mesh. I note that most all the designers I blog for (some very top names) are still in the standard sizing camp. I am VERY VERY GLAD.

That's all I got LOL.

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DeMarco Galthie wrote:

First I would respectfully state my opinions (I think I owe it to my students ) and raise some points that brought light better clarify the situation of the modeling that has already suffered some time by the current method of rigged ( mesh fitted ) .

 

 

1 - What is the level of satisfaction ( by the creators ) of the fitted mesh ?
The Fitted mesh was created to give the creators more freedom and increasing sophistication of mesh shapes .
It seems that along with the win ( collisions bones ) many problems of technical policy emerged .
Affecting the process of RIG Deep .
I use blender and I am fan of the freest possible method .
I teach my students an automatic method with manual refinement .
This process needs to fully align the bones !
No use of any addon or script .

 

2 - To what end is this project ( seems not finished yet ) .

What is the future of Fetted ?
It is desirable to continue to develop a project with complications sing ?
If for instance the answer is stated when it will be 100 % functional ?
I ask this having a significant quenda the students who come to me to learn modeling for Second Life !

 

3 - The uses colision Fitted hats , but in practice , many users use these bones ?

Learned that one of the major obstacles to the full implementation of the mesh Deformer was that not affect bone collision .
How important for the usurer consumer is ( considering that one of the most sold products are attachable breasts ) ?
And what is the opinion of the designers about .

 

4 - The Mesh defermer I experienced was 100 % functional and was suddenly replaced by mesh Fitted unfortunately that has not yet taken off !
Linden Lab could not use an alternative that would address the two methods ?
Keep the fitted mesh associated with mesh deformer option ?
Anyone can opt to use the colision bones ( fiited mesh) or Mesh deformer that is not affected by the bones but has a indeice supeior of success!

 

I hope to expose not only my opnion but mostly my doubts and my students .

Fitted mesh will always have problems with the default avatar because they change sizes in fundamentally different ways. It will work much better on a new mesh avatar because both the avatar and the clothing can behave the same way. Linden Lab is very close to releasing 24 new starter avatars that will be available to anyone and I believe at least some if not all will be full fitted mesh avatars. Word is the official preview release will be next week.

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Exactly, thank you Chic Aeon!
Raised the question about the fiteed why he does not seem to be moving forward. The mesh deformer work simply and efficiently (for me the two go together) and stopped when 100% functional. The colision bones in the current skeleton behind some technical complications that I see this preventing the definitive solution to these problems. Back might seem wrong, but in fact recognize the will of help Lindem. And yet I am not alone!
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I hope so. But my intention is to draw an alternative to what already exists. The Mesh Deformer was so breathtakingly simple. Not fit so well the topology of the avatar makes me highlight the great work and the level of sophistication achieved! A pity that the day I used the mesh fitted literally erased the Mesh Deformer Project has been launched!

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DeMarco Galthie wrote:

1 - What is the level of satisfaction ( by the creators ) of the fitted mesh ?
The Fitted mesh was created to give the creators more freedom and increasing sophistication of mesh shapes .
It seems that along with the win ( collisions bones ) many problems of technical policy emerged .
Affecting the process of RIG Deep .
I use blender and I am fan of the freest possible method .
I teach my students an automatic method with manual refinement .
This process needs to fully align the bones !
No use of any addon or script .

__________________________________________________________________________________________

The level of satisfaction by creators probably depends on what type of clothes and mesh they are creating.  Lose fitting and tight fitting clothes that cover up almost all the skin of the avatar Fitted Mesh works quite well.  Tight fitting clothes that show a lot of skin, particular in the breast area, Fitted Mesh does not work well at all.  Replacement mesh body parts also don't work well with Fitted mesh because it is impossible to get the mesh to follow exactly the shape of the real avatar's body so gaps form where the mesh body part ends and the real avatar body starts.

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________

DeMarco Galthie wrote:

2 - To what end is this project ( seems not finished yet ) .

What is the future of Fetted ?
It is desirable to continue to develop a project with complications sing ?
If for instance the answer is stated when it will be 100 % functional ?
I ask this having a significant quenda the students who come to me to learn modeling for Second Life !

_____________________________________________________________________________________

 

Fitted Mesh could be made to work a whole lot better. Red Polly, the originator of using the collision bones for rigging clothes, myself and others proposed adding custom sliders to the Editing Appearance menu that only affected the Collision Bones which would let residents fine tune the fit of their Fitted Mesh clothing.  

I wrote a post several months ago with photographic evidence that this proposal would work.  I made a few custom sliders in the third party viewer I was using.  Adding the sliders to the viewers is actually quite easy.  I added my sliders 4 or 5 sliders in just a few hours and I had no code writing experience.  My guess it take LL a day or two to add sliders for all the Collision Bones and maybe a week or two to test and tweak them.  Here's the link to my post:
 

 

Now this is only viewer side work.  Code would have to be added to transmit the new information to all the other residence in the area.  I am not sure if this is also written into just the viewer or if code has to be added to the servers so all other residences see your adjustments.

Sadly I doubt that LL will put anymore time or effort into improving Fitted Mesh.  I surely hope I am wrong.  

__________________________________________________________________________________________

DeMarco Galthie wrote:

3 - The uses colision Fitted hats , but in practice , many users use these bones ?

Learned that one of the major obstacles to the full implementation of the mesh Deformer was that not affect bone collision .
How important for the usurer consumer is ( considering that one of the most sold products are attachable breasts ) ?
And what is the opinion of the designers about .

________________________________________________________________________________________

I am not quite sure what you are asking here.  Fitted Mesh and the Mesh Deformer Qarl wrote work completely differently.  The Mesh Deformer could be modified to work with mesh rigged to the Collision Bones as well.

The Mesh Deformer would have made wearing of custom replacement body mesh parts like attachable breasts work flawlessly and seamlessly something Fitted Mesh just can't do.  Here is a link to my YouTube channel where I have a video of a custom mesh head I made using the Mesh Deformer.  Rigging was super simple.  I just rigged it to the one bone the mHead bone.
 

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________

DeMarco Galthie wrote:

4 - The Mesh defermer I experienced was 100 % functional and was suddenly replaced by mesh Fitted unfortunately that has not yet taken off !
Linden Lab could not use an alternative that would address the two methods ?
Keep the fitted mesh associated with mesh deformer option ?
Anyone can opt to use the colision bones ( fiited mesh) or Mesh deformer that is not affected by the bones but has a indeice supeior of success!

 

I hope to expose not only my opnion but mostly my doubts and my students .

The Mesh Deformer did have its own problems.  It was kinda like the opposite of the Fitted Mesh's problems.  Mesh Deformer worked great on tight and skimpy clothes and body parts.  It didn't do as well at loose fitting clothes though a solution had been added of uploading XML shapes to compensate for this.  Also for texture distortions I am pretty sure a feature could have been added to the Mesh Deformer that could have relaxed the UVs while keeping the UV borders pinned fixing this as well.

All in all the Mesh Deformer would have been the better choice in my opinion.  It is way less work for content creators.  Just rig to the normal skeleton like we have always done and click a few options during upload.  Fitted Mesh rigging and weight adjusting is not, in my experience, twice as difficult but more like five times as difficult as rigging and getting satisfactory results.

What would be best for SL, in my opinion, would be to let us have both Fitted Mesh and the Mesh Deformer.  My hope would be that LL would see it is in their best interest and not let office politics interfere in their decision making.

Hope that helps, :)

Cathy

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

Fitted mesh will always have problems with the default avatar because they change sizes in fundamentally different ways. It will work much better on a new mesh avatar because both the avatar and the clothing can behave the same way. Linden Lab is very close to releasing 24 new starter avatars that will be available to anyone and I believe at least some if not all will be full fitted mesh avatars. Word is the official preview release will be next week.


Theresa where did you get your information?  I love to read the detailed information for myself.

Mesh avatars by LL that are fully rigged to the Collision Bones as Fitted Mesh would be a great bonus if LL does the extra work of having the face and hand morphs continue to work on them not to mention having all the normal skin, tattoo, clothing and alpha layers also work.

If all we get are full body Fitted Mesh avatar mesh then we will have gained nothing.  The eyes will not blink or have any sort of facial expression.  The hands will be frozen into one position and we will still have very few skin options.

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I have observed that you actively working on a solutionm, Cathy. There's no way to highlight the effort of Gaya and all its employees in operating the mesh. I think she is a commendable example of how a community struggles to try to adapt to constant changes that the mesh has suffered. There is no denying the jurisdiction proves the years. Since the old days where everything was sculpt. I agree and I support that common sense will prevail. I still believe in a solution that includes both types of rig. "Fitted" to anyone and in my case "Deformer".
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  • 1 month later...

Second Life might die along with the fitted mesh, there is no freedom of creation, there is a regression, people are wearing clothes mesh texture was just feet from the store, legs most of a single store, the face of one shop, picture que some breeders to be crazy, to create a device sizes should consult belly, legs, hands thousand, creator of the skin to create applies to some stores is not all, he had to create a minimum 5 applies to serve the public , and the price remains the same, THAT is crazy.
would be easier than creating a new virtual world, putting to work of deforming mesh or fitted.

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