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Is the Sky Just One Big Sandbox?


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Hello, I have recently noticed a huge amount of stuff in the air around the parcel I am renting.  It's things like platforms/ plain prims, odd shapes, boxes for advertising?, and other (what looks to be) assorted junk.

How does LL get rid of stuff that may have been left behind by someone and they are no longer using?

Is there a way to tell when the object was created?  (I know how to find owner/ creator);

Is it possible to get this kind of stuff removed from the sky, and how would a person go about doing this?

Thanks for any help with this,

Red52

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The sky is not a big sandbox (expect when its above a big sandbox of course!). Every land you see is owned by someone and that someone can put up anything on the ground or in the sky. Whatever it is, whatever they want and some items, for example skyboxes, are even designed to be up in the air.

If you own land, you also own the sky above your land and you are free to use it.

 

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Red52 wrote:

Hello, I have recently noticed a huge amount of stuff in the air around the parcel I am renting.  It's things like platforms/ plain prims, odd shapes, boxes for advertising?, and other (what looks to be) assorted junk.

How does LL get rid of stuff that may have been left behind by someone and they are no longer using?

Is there a way to tell when the object was created?  (I know how to find owner/ creator);

Is it possible to get this kind of stuff removed from the sky, and how would a person go about doing this?

Thanks for any help with this,

Red52

You're right, sometimes the sky looks like one big trash dump and some people use their sky like a personal sandbox.

There is really nothing you can do to get all this litter removed.

When I at home in my own skybox I turn my draw distance down.

The other thing as someone mentioned is to use 'derender.'

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Thanks for your answer, Syo.  I do understand that people can build in the sky/ in skyboxes.  The 'stuff' I am referring to does not look like builds; it's mostly just plain prims/ odd shapes.

Red52

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Thanks for your reply, Sonja.  I don't know what derendering is, although I have heard of it.  I don't want to delete something of someone else's, especially if it is being used.

Red52

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Hi Perrie- thanks for your reply.  That's exactly what I did - turn down the draw distance so I wouldn;t see most of the stuff.  I was just curious if LL had a way to eliminate or reduce this kind of clutter. 

It seems LL would want to do this to help land owners in being able to rent their properties better.  This is the first time I have rented on the mainland, and I do like it but have heard (or read) somewhere that a lot of people don't care for the mainland - is the clutter one reason why?

Red52

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Red52 wrote:

Hi Perrie- thanks for your reply.  That's exactly what I did - turn down the draw distance so I wouldn;t see most of the stuff.  I was just curious if LL had a way to eliminate or reduce this kind of clutter. 

It seems LL would want to do this to help land owners in being able to rent their properties better.  This is the first time I have rented on the mainland, and I do like it but have heard (or read) somewhere that a lot of people don't care for the mainland - is the clutter one reason why?

Red52

Yes, that is one reason people dislike Mainland.  And no LL will not do anything about it.

It's kind of the price of Urban Living. Sometimes neighbors don't think.

Derender is an option in Firestorm.  It doesn't hurt anything.  Basically all it does is till your viewer "I don't want to see that" so it doesn't get displayed.  That's all.  (It may be in other Viewers, I jsut don't know myself).

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I see no point in making it invisible. If something is in the sky, I want to be able to see it, so that I don't blunder into it when I am flying about.


There surely must be some sort of system for clearing up junk left by users who have stopped bothering with Second Life and have not logged in for a while.

 At Abbots Airport users can buy jet fighters etc; but where to fly them safely, if the sky is full of old floating junk?

 

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 At Abbots Airport users can buy jet fighters etc; but where to fly them safely, if the sky is full oif old floating junk?
 

It's a bit like asteroids: You think there's so many that you're bound to collide with them, but actually they're spread over a huge space so it's not as hopeless as it seems.

They are ugly, though, especially on Mainland and other lax estates, as I'm reminded every time I expand my draw distance.

The bad part is that most of it is not anything desired by the landowner, and very often the landowners themselves haven't been around and no tier has been paid on the land for years. (I'm not talking about the lifetime members specifically, although they're often a problem, too.) Most often it's just bits and pieces of detritus that "escaped" a novice's Build tool while trying to edit something into place.

This is why auto-return is so valuable. Honestly, Mainland should have two different tier system, where land without auto-return would cost at least twice as much as land with it enabled.

Admittedly, some of the junk escaped the landowner's own editing. It would be nice to have some better tools for finding all those stranded items -- and free-up the prims they consume, without having to clear the parcel and start again from scratch.

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Qie Niangao wrote:


 At Abbots Airport users can buy jet fighters etc; but where to fly them safely, if the sky is full oif old floating junk?
 

It's a bit like asteroids: You think there's so many that you're bound to collide with them, but actually they're spread over a huge space so it's not as hopeless as it seems.

They are ugly, though, especially on Mainland and other lax estates, as I'm reminded every time I expand my draw distance.

The bad part is that most of it is
not
anything desired by the landowner, and very often the landowners themselves haven't been around and no tier has been paid on the land for years. (I'm not talking about the lifetime members specifically, although they're often a problem, too.) Most often it's just bits and pieces of detritus that "escaped" a novice's Build tool while trying to edit something into place.

This is why auto-return is so valuable. Honestly, Mainland should have two different tier system, where land without auto-return would cost at least twice as much as land with it enabled.

Admittedly, some of the junk escaped the landowner's
own
editing. It would be nice to have some better tools for finding all those stranded items -- and free-up the prims they consume, without having to clear the parcel and start again from scratch.

I'm not sure how auto-return would help this because it only effects what others have rezzed, not the parcels owners objects.

And now, when someone abandons land doesn't anything they left behind get auto-returned?  I am aware of the problem with older abandonned parcels.

LL must have some number crunching on how much abandonned land they allow.  It always seems to hover at around 10 to 12%.  And how they choose what to sell or auction remains a mystery. 

I do remember when the Teen Grid got merged.  It was the most awful collection of plywood in the sky I ever saw anywhere. 

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It would be useful for Linden to write a "garbage collecter" that finds all objects left by users who have not been on Secomd Life for (say) a year, and suchlike, and archive them somewhere, or put each such item in its owner's or creater's personal archive; if the user returns, he would be able to restore them to their places.

 Please, how can I vary my draw distance?

 

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CaptainJack Grauman wrote:

 

 Please, how can I vary my draw distance?

 

In the Officail Viewer it's in Preferences/Graphics Tab

Firestorm (and I believe other TPV's) also have a command line function for changing it which is very very useful.  All you do is type 'dd xx' in local chat where x = the distance you want to view, for example 'dd 64.'

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I'm not sure how auto-return would help this because it only effects what others have rezzed, not the parcels owners objects.

In my experience, the vast majority of sky junk is not the parcel owner's.

Yeah, there are intentional sky builds and they're often pretty dismal content, but what I see most often when flying around the Mainland are little bits of left-behind junk that clearly simply escaped from somebody's Build tool, slid across the sim, and are now stranded above some unwitting landowner's parcel forever -- or until they enable auto-return.

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Qie Niangao wrote:


I'm not sure how auto-return would help this because it only effects what others have rezzed, not the parcels owners objects.

In my experience, the
vast
majority of sky junk is not the parcel owner's.

Yeah, there are intentional sky builds and they're often pretty dismal content, but what I see most often when flying around the Mainland are little bits of left-behind junk that clearly simply escaped from somebody's Build tool, slid across the sim, and are now stranded above some unwitting landowner's parcel forever -- or until they enable auto-return.

I've never checked for ownership and thinking about it again, the problem really won't get solved by attrition because new stuff will always be showing up.  Maybe a little bit on abandonned land because of the change to how it's handled.

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Re my previous message about sky junk and skyboxes as a hazard when flying :: someone said that SL is unlike RL (= real life) because in RL there are no skyboxes. But in RL there are very tall radio and television masts and suchlike :: I was born in Rugby in Warwickshire in England in 1942, and from my front upstairs windows when I was a boy I could see an area of very tall international communication radio masts behind Lower Hillmorton :: and they had warning lights on top to avoid aircraft flying into them. And the Winter Hill television transmitter mast near Chorley in Lancashire is in the same category.

 

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CaptainJack Grauman wrote:

Re my previous message about sky junk and skyboxes as a hazard when flying :: someone said that SL is unlike RL (= real life) because in RL there are no skyboxes. But in RL there are very tall radio and television masts and suchlike :: I was born in Rugby in Warwickshire in England in 1942, and from my front upstairs windows when I was a boy I could see an area of very tall international communication radio masts behind Lower Hillmorton :: and they had warning lights on top to avoid aircraft flying into them. And the WInter Hill television transmitter mast near Chorley in Lancashire is in the same category.

 

I grew up under one of the approaches to LaGuardia.  And sometimes the jets would come in so low I swear I could have stood on the roof of my apartment building and thrown rocks at them and hit them.  :)

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If I right-click on an object, a menu shows, and if I then left-click on "Object Profile" on that menu, an information list shows, including Creator and Owner. For example, at "Saiura's Home, Hookton (108, 125, 709) - Moderate" I found 2 items: a wooden board and a simple boat shape, both created and owned by Ryde Thor.

But sometimes when I do this, an object's information list's Creator and Owner entries stay blank, for example a large grey floating hemisphere at "Chicco's Watchamacallies Shop - just original items - , Jizo (31, 233, 1120) - Moderate". Sometimes this happens even with buildings on the ground. What does this mean?

 Every object in SL surely is listed on a computer file somewhere :: a search could be made through all such files.

 

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Assuming you're looking at the object I think you're describing, it's actually in the Wards sim, and if you brave the dopey security system, you may see the creator and owner.

But I wonder if maybe you're using a different non-Linden viewer that's sort of "trying too hard" to get details about those. Both the creator ("Gene Replacement" -- a common creator of old-school megaprims) and owner ("Meeka Sihtu") show as "This name is unavailable" in their profiles, although of course they're fully available using other viewers. That part is often a side-effect of inherited default hyper-restrictive "privacy" settings -- but doesn't prevent the names from being populated at least in normal viewers.

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Hi Perrie - I did find the Derender option - pretty cool tool! 

Does anyone know if there is a way to derender a bunch of items at one time (especially if they are not linked)?  Also - any idea on how many items you can add to the Blacklist (in Firestorm?)

Thank you!

Red52

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 At Abbots Airport users can buy jet fighters etc; but where to fly them safely, if the sky is full oif old floating junk?

 

Welcom to the Joy of Being a SL pilot sadly the only safe place to fly is protected watterways. Overland sky os Flooded with trash.

 

Sadly the area of sky that is clear is full of banlines if you clime up over banline hight you run into the Skyboxes. (which are easy to stear around but, you will allways find Full parsles or people who have controll issues and 0 second security orbs.  (and dont give me that privacy trash it takes me 2 seconds to fly threw your tiny parsle and trust me I have no intrest in being a Peeping tom listeringe eydrops hurt) 

 

what linden lab Needs to do is declare a No build area in the skys over the mainland 250 to 400 meters to give aircraft a Safe place in the skys    

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 At Abbots Airport users can buy jet fighters etc; but where to fly them safely, if the sky is full of old floating junk?

dusan Elan wrote:

Welcom to the Joy of Being a SL pilot sadly the only safe place to fly is protected watterways. Overland sky os Flooded with trash.

Sadly the area of sky that is clear is full of banlines if you clime up over banline hight you run into the Skyboxes. (which are easy to stear around but, you will allways find Full parsles or people who have controll issues and 0 second security orbs.  (and dont give me that privacy trash it takes me 2 seconds to fly threw your tiny parsle and trust me I have no intrest in being a Peeping tom listeringe eydrops hurt) 

what linden lab Needs to do is declare a No build area in the skys over the mainland 250 to 400 meters to give aircraft a Safe place in the skys    

At http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Montezuma/127/95/251 is a strange vertical stack of big hemispherical sky objects.

 

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