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render me Impressed! the latest SL viewer is quite fast and I'm excited

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Darlingmonster Ember

Darlingmonster Ember

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Just a comment. I spent some time on the grid last night hopping through the destinations of a hunt for practice with the latest viewer.

This viewer incorporates all the latest 'project interesting' focus renders. Wow. Really made a nice experience.

As a long time Firestorm user, I tip my hat to the Linden Viewer.

 

cheers

D

#viewer

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phaedra Exonar

phaedra Exonar

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I took time to try it out and it seems to run smoothly and had good frame rate,  I'm not expecting LL to add RLV, but what keeps me from using the LL viewer for casual non work use is the the camera controls are huge, get in the way,  and can't be resized, I'm not the only one who has comment on that in the forums.  May be I just need to learn to use the short cuts :)

It's good to see the viewer getting better, and even better to see Lindens taking time to respond here!

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Qie Niangao

Qie Niangao

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phaedra Exonar wrote:

May be I just need to learn to use the short cuts
:)

OMFG yes! The best thing I ever did to improve my SL quality of life was to forever close that cam control window (as a newbie, back when Viewer 1 was cutting-edge) and force myself to use only Alt-zoom and Control-Alt-swivel.

The second-best thing was at the start of Viewer 3, getting rid of all the toolbar buttons and learning the control-key equivalents for everything I actually use.

(The third-best was replacing all HUDs with self-scripted ones that use the barest minimum of screen space only when necessary -- but that's a much bigger step, and an ongoing battle.)

Oh, about this viewer: I've been using it for a long time, while still in RCs, and it's definitely a big win for the way I use SL: moving a lot, camming a lot, but with relatively short draw distance. I'd be interested to see if it's as much an advance for those who use SL differently, and therefore maybe don't have such constantly and rapidly changing scene contents.

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ObviousAltIsObvious

ObviousAltIsObvious

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i have been switching between the different projects, so sometimes had interesting available, sometimes not.

the difference is not very noticeable for "static" days, hanging out in one spot for a long time, but it's massive for the moving around days!

this could be a pipe dream, but maybe this patch will help, just a little, to draw more people out into the world, since exploring will be more fun and less of a chore.

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phaedra Exonar

phaedra Exonar

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Qie Niangao wrote:

phaedra Exonar wrote:

May be I just need to learn to use the short cuts
:)

OMFG
yes!
The best thing I ever did to improve my SL quality of life was to forever close that cam control window (as a newbie, back when Viewer 1 was cutting-edge) and force myself to use only Alt-zoom and Control-Alt-swivel.

The second-best thing was at the start of Viewer 3, getting rid of all the toolbar buttons and learning the control-key equivalents for everything I actually use.

(The third-best was replacing all HUDs with self-scripted ones that use the barest minimum of screen space only when necessary -- but that's a much bigger step, and an ongoing battle.)

Oh, about this viewer: I've been using it for a long time, while still in RCs, and it's definitely a big win for the way I use SL: moving a lot, camming a lot, but with relatively short draw distance. I'd be interested to see if it's as much an advance for those who use SL differently, and therefore maybe don't have such constantly and rapidly changing scene contents.

I use to use the camera short cuts years ago but stopped when it was causing me problems with the program we used at work were the short cuts were reversed, would dive me nuts mixing them up lol.  Now I don't have to deal with that any more I'll give it a try again.

It's is nice getting rid of AO's and the old flight feather

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Jenni Darkwatch

Jenni Darkwatch

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I'll second that sentiment. Currently on the road with a crappy old laptop, noticeable speed diff. FYI, system specs:

Second Life 3.7.7 (289461) Apr 22 2014 18:43:33 (Second Life Release)
Release Notes

CPU: Intel® Core2 CPU         T7200  @ 2.00GHz (1000 MHz)
Memory: 2014 MB
OS Version: Linux 3.13.0-24-generic #47-Ubuntu SMP Fri May 2 23:31:42 UTC 2014 i686
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce Go 7400/PCIe/SSE2

OpenGL Version: 2.1.2 NVIDIA 304.117

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.24.0 OpenSSL/1.0.0d zlib/1.2.5
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v6.4.1
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.31
Qt Webkit Version: 4.7.1 (version number hard-coded)
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Built with GCC version 40603

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Hoshi Kenin

Hoshi Kenin

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Is that so?  Personally, I find it hard to forgive the Lindens for Viewer2.  I mean what sort of company would even release something that atrocious?

As for their latest  viewer, I am happy for you.  It is high time they got something right.

Nonetheless. my money is on at least 2 of the TPV's being superior.  As has been the case for years. Sometimes even  a dev acting pretty much alone, a superior viewer results. Funny that, isn't it?

 

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Phil Deakins

Phil Deakins

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Hoshi Kenin wrote:

Is that so?  Personally, I find it hard to forgive the Lindens for Viewer2.  I mean what sort of company would even release something that atrocious?

As for their latest  viewer, I am happy for you.  It is high time they got something right.

Nonetheless. my money is on at least 2 of the TPV's being superior.  As has been the case for years. Sometimes even  a dev acting pretty much alone, a superior viewer results. Funny that, isn't it?

 

The V2 viewer was truly truly awful. No way could it be used by me. When the V3 came out, I gave it a try, and then I started thread to praise it. It really is very good. I don't think any TPV is superior to it - not for most people, anyway, unless they really do want the restrained life stuff. They do have a couple of extras that, as a builder, I do find good - the ability to get an object's key with a simple click, and something else that escapes me - neither of which I use often enough to make me use a TPV over the LL one.

It's my very strong opinion that most people who use TPVs do so, not because they are better, but because their friends recommend them. And their friends recommend them because they were recommended to them, and so it goes on, each time with the opinion that they are better but not knowing how - everyone using them because they are recommended and not because they are any better. That's my strong opinion, anyway. Also, TPVs always lag behind the LL viewer, as the post above this one demonstrates.

 

Back on topic: I've no idea what viewer this thread is about. Today I got the forced update but I haven't noticed any difference.

 

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Phil Deakins

Phil Deakins

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phaedra Exonar wrote:

I took time to try it out and it seems to run smoothly and had good frame rate,  I'm not expecting LL to add RLV, but what keeps me from using the LL viewer for casual non work use is the
the camera controls are huge, get in the way,  and can't be resized, I'm not the only one who has comment on that in the forums.  May be I just need to learn to use the short cuts
:)

It's good to see the viewer getting better, and even better to see Lindens taking time to respond here!

That used to be a HUGE complaint of mine, and I posted here many times about it. They are really bad compared to what they used to be. So eventually I got used to using keypresses instead, and that works fine.

I've read that you are going back to keypresses. It's a good move because LL seems to be very reluctant to get the camera controls back to something reasonable.

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Darlingmonster Ember

Darlingmonster Ember

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Phil Deakins wrote:

 

Back on topic: I've no idea what viewer this thread is about. Today I got the forced update but I haven't noticed any difference.

 

We are talking about the fantastic improvement in render times and priorities for main viewer update this week.

Torley explains it better than I ever could.

.

 

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Perrie Juran

Perrie Juran

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Phil Deakins wrote:

phaedra Exonar wrote:

I took time to try it out and it seems to run smoothly and had good frame rate,  I'm not expecting LL to add RLV, but what keeps me from using the LL viewer for casual non work use is the
the camera controls are huge, get in the way,  and can't be resized, I'm not the only one who has comment on that in the forums.  May be I just need to learn to use the short cuts
:)

It's good to see the viewer getting better, and even better to see Lindens taking time to respond here!

That used to be a HUGE complaint of mine, and I posted here many times about it. They are really bad compared to what they used to be. So eventually I got used to using keypresses instead, and that works fine.

I've read that you are going back to keypresses. It's a good move because LL seems to be very reluctant to get the camera controls back to something reasonable.

For me the big problem now is CHUI. 

I've tried to get used to it.  I really have.  It's turned simply chatting into a complicated clusterf*ck for me.

Why LL has absolutely refused to make the Camera Control resizeable is absoluely beyond me....this one thing has been brought up so many times you'd think they'd get the message that people really want it.

In "Your World, Your Imagination," anything that gets between you and your view of the World is NOT a good thing.

Which now makes me think of a feature I'd love to see added to Firestorm's "Quick Preferences."  The abilty to change graphics level withought having to open the 'preferences' window.  That would be really nice.

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Phil Deakins

Phil Deakins

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Yes, the CHUI does leave something to be desired. LL seems to have an unswerving ability to move some things is the wrong direction while moving others is the right one. It's all very well some randon Linden popping in to say "glad you like it", or words that effect, but it would much better if some random Linden popped in to see what people actually do want. Taking the occsional bow isn't very impressive. But that won't happen - not with Linden Lab.

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Perrie Juran

Perrie Juran

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Yes, the CHUI does leave something to be desired. LL seems to have an unswerving ability to move some things is the wrong direction while moving others is the right one. It's all very well some randon Linden popping in to say "glad you like it", or words that effect, but it would much better if some random Linden popped in to see what people actually do want. Taking the occsional bow isn't very impressive. But that won't happen - not with Linden Lab.

I did my ranting about CHUI way back when it was in Beta.  So I really won't start again.

Designed by people who appeared to not have a Second Life. 

I found Ebbe's Statement in his Keynote Address very interesting.

"So we do want to be more transparent, we do definitely want to participate with you so that we can get your feedback and learn from you, and correct things based on what we hear from you. but sometimes, we actually learn more from watching what you do as opposed to listening to what you say."

I think it would be a real eye opener to them if they actually sat and watched over our shoulders as we used the Viewer and saw us struggling with UI element designs that make no sense.

/rant off

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Pussycat Catnap

Pussycat Catnap

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I found Ebbe's Statement in his
very interesting.

"So we do want to be more transparent, we do definitely want to participate with you so that we can get your feedback and learn from you, and correct things based on what we hear from you. but sometimes,
we actually learn more from watching what you do as opposed to listening to what you say."

I suspect they have the ability to ghost us. As in, ride along inside your avatar while you use it... This was in early MUDs, but no dev of an online platform for dare admit to it now I suspect. Its the kind of thing that can seriously freak out people who discover it occuring.

If not ghosting, then they might be able to have an invisible avatar - purely invisible and not just "wearing an alpha' but able to stand there right next to you set on follow but completely not registered by the customer-facing viewer, as you are playing around in bukakke bliss on your alt, and take notes... :)

On the other hand - they'd learn even more just pretending to be a noob going on shopping hunts or entering contests or whatever...

 

I have no real strong opinion of CHUI. When it launched, I didn't notice the differences, whatever they were. And now whatever they were, I'm used to them.

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Pussycat Catnap

Pussycat Catnap

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See that baffles me, because that viewer is this one from April 23rd:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.7.7.289461

It seems to be missing some of the new features, like flickr.

And the links say the only missing piece is Project Sunshine - server side baking. Which I thought went live a year ago...

 

Oh and, interesting to see that Torley plays that game with the fighting pokemon like animals (the video opens on that game's home sim). I've dabbled in that from time to time.

 

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Phil Deakins

Phil Deakins

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Phil Deakins wrote:

Yes, the CHUI does leave something to be desired. LL seems to have an unswerving ability to move some things is the wrong direction while moving others is the right one. It's all very well some randon Linden popping in to say "glad you like it", or words that effect, but it would much better if some random Linden popped in to see what people actually do want. Taking the occsional bow isn't very impressive. But that won't happen - not with Linden Lab.

I did my
way back when it was in Beta.  So I really won't start again.

Designed by people who appeared to not have a Second Life. 

I found Ebbe's Statement in his
very interesting.

"So we do want to be more transparent, we do definitely want to participate with you so that we can get your feedback and learn from you, and correct things based on what we hear from you. but sometimes, we actually learn more from watching what you do as opposed to listening to what you say."

I think it would be a real eye opener to them if they actually sat and watched over our shoulders as we used the Viewer and saw us struggling with UI element designs that make no sense.

/rant off

But don't they all make 'good' sounding noises when they first arrive? They all sound promising, but none delivers. At least this one said that they'd listen but don't expect them to deliver, so I suppose, as a statement, it's cut above the others.

I thought that, by "watched over our shoulders", you meant behind us as we sit at the keyboard, which is different to what Pussycat thought you meant. If they were over our shoulders while we sat at the keyboard, they'd also get to hear what we thought about it as the CHUI does its thing to us :)

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