What happens to our private messages and other chat?

[Hassa Softpaw]

With the recent issue of people suddenly getting IM's from others that are (in some cases) up to two months old, I was a bit concerned, and found myself asking:  "What happens to our private messages and other chat?"

It bothers me to think that someone could simply yank our conversations out of some database, anytime they wish, and read them!  I mean, gosh, why in the world would this information be stored by LL?  And yes, it MUST be stored somewhere, because it's coming back days, weeks, or months later!

I'm troubled by this.  So much so, that I am posting my very first thread.  LOL

Opinions?  Shared concern?  Comments?  Technical response from LL?  All are welcome, please.

NOTE:  I will mark this thread as 'Answered' only if someone provides an answer as to what actually is being done with our chat in-world.

[Unklebob Hotaling]

I can see where an argument could be make and people being unsettled due to privacy issues etal... valid point.

To be the devil's advocate though, you end up running into some griefer abuser nolife or end up in some dispute with a vendor, neighbor who put a wall partially on your property... you end up putting trhem in their place or ticking them off somehow - stranger things have happened, you rubbed someone the wrong way ot they're just looking to cause people trouble.   You get an AR filed against you with some BS about things you didn't even say... the say they overheard you doing ageplay or uttering some harsh racist remark that you could get your butt banned for.

Provided you trust the cops, and I do... the right info in the right hands can definately be of advantage.   In the meantime if anyone wants to hear my emotes during sex, of how I think my rl boss is a goof, or that i look horrid in blond hair or how i think Tiger Woods is an idiot - granted an idiot who really scored... whatever; I'll buy the popcorn, hell i'll even post it here.

[Hassa Softpaw]

I like how you always find the other side of things!  I agree with you... but I still want to know what they do with our chat lol... I keep my OWN chat logs, meaning I can protect myself if accused of something I didn't do or say.  But you still make valid points.  Thank you

[LotsOFun Larsen]

I agree that there needs to be some archive of the chat logs but I don't think more than 2 weeks or so is needed for the reasons you stated.  Is there a policy that LL publishes on the length of time they store them?  and who is allowed access to them?  or if we have implicitly agreed to give them permissions to sell them to marketing organizations or others?

 

I do trust LL but things can change... companies can change priorities, etc.  I use emerald encryption with my friends whenever I can for privacy reasons.  If I get IMs from someone suspicious I immediately switch to non-encrypted mode.  From what it looks like, the first message in an OTR communication is clear text anyway but I am only basing that on the color of the text Emerald uses.

 

-LotsOFun

[Lindal Kidd]

Keeping your own chat and IM logs is good practice.  However, that isn't sufficient for resolving disputes or investigating an AR, because it's so easy to edit/doctor/make up a chat or IM log and say "see?  Here's what that so-and-so said!"  LL uses their official logs.

I don't know how long they keep them, though.

[Unklebob Hotaling]

Two quicky points...

Yes you keep your logs, but... you can alter them.  Not saying you would, but the possibility exists that people can... they don't necessarily prove or disprove anything.

The harshest point of all, the fine print - they aren't 'your/our' chats.  They belong to LL, you have no rights of ownership.  I could very well be wrong but I'd be inclined to think LL would view stored chat logs as 'data LL stores'... that said if anyone can poke holes in this I for one am all ears.

You agree that even though you may retain certain copyright or other intellectual property rights with respect to Content you create while using the Service, you do not own the account you use to access the Service, nor do you own any data Linden Lab stores on Linden Lab servers (including without limitation any data representing or embodying any or all of your Content). Your intellectual property rights do not confer any rights of access to the Service or any rights to data stored by or on behalf of Linden Lab.

[Jak Canning]

Not sure about LL policy regarding storage of messages but it does not surprise me that they store them.  This is the way things are done in the era of modern communications.  Most cell phone companies keep an archive of text messages but usually purge them after a short time (week or so?).  I assume LL has some purge policy in place but who knows.  As another poster mentioned I believe  Emerald allows you to encrypt your IMs so if you are really concerned you could go that route.  Also, you can log chat and IMs to your local hard drive so if you need the history for some reason you will have it.

[Hassa Softpaw]

I agree.  Chat logs CAN be doctored.  And for all the reasons mentioned, having an "official" log of my chat is nice to have SOMEWHERE, but where?  And ya, who has access to them?  And why?

It just kinda bothers me that all of a sudden, personal IM's that I sent a while ago are now being bounced back to the intended recipients.  Very very very unnerving.

[Irene Muni]

How We Protect Your Personal Data

                    

We complywith applicable laws and industry standards when transferring,receiving and storing consumer data. Access to your personalinformation is limited to those Linden Lab employees who require theinformation in order to provide products or services to you or performtheir jobs

(from Privacy Policy)

But I don't know how many time the information is stored.

[Fmagick Zymurgy]

I go by the assumption that they store everything, forever, and back it up, and have multiple copies..  And if necessary could dig up the first conversation I ever had to show me how much of a n00b I used to be.  Also, if you liive by that assumption, you are likely to be a little bit more carefull about what you say and who you say it to.....but not always

[Lia Abbot]

Not sure if this is true of everyone, but I know my IMs are automatically save to my hard drive.

Try this. Go to Start/Run and type in %appdata%. In the Explore, click on the Second Life Folder, then the one with your sl name on. Inside you'll find all your IMs.

Big Brother doesn't need to watch us. We're watching ourselves!

[BlckCobra Shikami]

I share your concerns and the answer from support wasn't very helpful because they didn't even understand the question/info and replied that the issue has been resolved (I should check the grid status page - which states to provide them any possibly helpful info).

Support Rating:

• Question/Info understood: No
• Useful answer provided: No
• Have red their on Grid Status Page: No

If IMs are stored beyond what is neccessary to deliver them, LL is breaking their own TOS and violating a lot of laws all over the world. From my current understanding the IMs are deliveries of IMs which were stuck or delivered but still stuck in some kind of storage.

It would be very helpful if a Linden (who also read here) would explain what happened and with that remove the concerns many have. This issue is a trust breaker if no one states what has really happened and the rumors will probably destroy the tiny rest of faith residents have left lately.

Cobra

[Ansariel Hiller]

Apparently, LL seems to know it's a technical issue and wants to investigate / is investing it, but wants residents to file support tickets on it. This came on SL Grid Status

Old IMs reappearing in chat

We have had reports of old IMs, some as old as 2 months, reappearing in chat as if they were just resent. We want to assure residents we believe this is a technical problem and not associated with anything intentional or malicious. We are investigating the cause and if you wish to send in a support ticket with your experience we will pass that information on to the investigative team.

[BlckCobra Shikami]

Yes, but if you submit a support ticket giving them hints about what you noticed, they send you an answer to that ticket which has nothing to do with it.

[Ansariel Hiller]

You already got an answer? Replys to my support tickets usually take 24+ hours...

[BlckCobra Shikami]

Yes, amazing, isn't it?

But what is an answer worth if it does not fit to the question you asked/info you submitted?

It's like the answer: "42" ... you gotta research a LOOOONG time for the question and in the end they blow up your planet ...

Cobra

[Ansariel Hiller]

Actually the planet wasn't blown up by researching the question to the answer, but somebody wanted to create a interstellar highway and Earth was in its way.

[BlckCobra Shikami]

Oh you mean we have to wait for the LL moles from the building department to wake up before our SL planet goes boooom?
Hopefully Lindes have red the book.

[Ansariel Hiller]

Don't panic! /me gets her towel...

[Volkmar Taurog]

well, i dont wonder why it takes so long to get my IMs (or other notifications), i gues LL only dont have enough staff right now for a censorship

[Lola Longully]

Check today's NY Times story ... text messages of any sort are today's "digital lipstick on the collar". The moral is, never put anything in writing unless you are prepared to deal with its possible consequences.

[Unklebob Hotaling]

" text messages of any sort are today's "digital lipstick on the collar"."

I hear mine are going to be made into a cheap paperback movie, the kind delivered in plain brown wrappers... there's talk of it becoming a movie - the sequel to Forrest Gump most likely.   Want a chocolate?  Run Unkie, run...

[ANTONIA Moonites]

WELL YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE GOOD ASPECT OF THEM KEEPING GOOD RECORDS OF OUR CHAT IF ANYTHING EVER HAPPENS GOD FORBID THE INVESTERGATORS MIGHT NEED INFORMATION TO HELP CATCH SOMEONE DOING SOMETHING REAL HORRIBLE. WE ALL KNOW IN RL AND IN SL THERE ARE SOME REAL CRAZY PEOPLE OUT THERE AND IT DONT GET SOLVED IN 1 DAY MUCH LESS 1 YEAR.

[Ansariel Hiller]

Oh yes, everyone is suspicious! Please log everything: Your communication, track where you go, your bank account transactions etc. Brilliant...

[Unklebob Hotaling]

Exactly, another example being if you enter into a verbal agreement with someone say to built you a house or staff some event... keeping the chat and transaction records gives you something concrete to verify your claims rather than just memory or 'he said - she said' back and forths.  I've heard of people being banned months after something happened, or being reinstated weeks down the road after something happened - one can only guess as a result of further investigation into the initial claim (that proved to be incorrect).

[Hassa Softpaw]

Thank you, Irene.  Your answer was the closest I could get to as well.  So I marked yours as being the "Answer."

I still have not found out what happened, and no linden replied to this post.  Also, no further mention was made on the grid status page.

Happy Holidays to everyone.