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Mesh vs prim and normal clothes


Anestacia
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It highly depends on the kind of clothes. Some clothes aren't possible with prims or texture layers. Boots that go over the knee or short skirts, for example. But for underwear and beachwear I still prefer texture clothes, because both have to be skin-thight and thats something nearly impossible (or at least very hard) to archieve with mesh. I also keept some texture t-shirts and many sci fi latex outfits, because they still do a good job.

I still have a few prim based shoes, because when I brought them, they were really expensive and are still not that bad, but i recently got into slink compatible shoes and must say that I think this is really comfortable, because you don't have to play around with a hud to match the colour from your skin with the primfeet in the shoe (like it is in prim shoes).

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Like Syo, I'm not sure they're comparable. For certain clothes mesh is the obvious choice, but some clothing hasn't converted to mesh very well at all yet. Especially anything skin tight (e.g. latex).

There was, admittedly, a phase in Second Life's history where everyone thought it was cool to add 'wrinkle' effects to layered clothing to make it appear baggy - mesh wins there. But it's only really when people tried to create things that were unsuited to the technology where they now look 'bad' (e.g. prim only heels without sculpts even, primitives just aren't capable of being closely wrapped to avatars).

I still like layered clothing for a lot of reasons - you can programmatically determine whether you're wearing a shirt or pants, (forever impossible with mesh, alas) and layer stacking is slightly more intelligent. It's way easier to mix and match with layered clothes, and without all the tearing and rigging nonsense.

People make poor creating decisions with all of the different SL technologies. But each still looks distinctive and has a place in SL that the others can't completely take away. I think SL fashion will always be a case of using each technology to the best of their capability.

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Mesh is OK for a lot of things, but it's impossible to make a mesh skirt or a gown that flows the way that one made with flexi prims does.  Mesh skirts always have a sort of Silly Putty look by comparison. And as others have commented, mesh is poorly suited to anything that is meant to cling to your body, like underwear and bathing suits.  Designers who can make only one kind of clothing limit themselves.

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I'll have to disagree about mesh not being suited for 'skin-tight' clothing.  Especially latex/metallic things, since a mesh can use the materials system and animated textures and scripts, whereas the standard clothing layers cannot.

 

Agreed, mesh doesn't perfectly auto-size to a given shape (though fitted is helping with that, it still is a lot of work, and is rarely perfect) so for those you often just wear the alpha that hides 90%-100% of your body and accept the shape the mesh maker used for the outfit.  So, there are still some limitations.

 

So it really depends on how 'attached' you are to your shape.  Mesh, rigged mesh, fitted mesh, prim/flexi attachments, system clothing.   The good designers use some or all of these, as appropriate for each part, to create great outfits.

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Even for skin tight I've gone mesh only.

In fact I've tossed out most of my pre-mesh inventory. The things I've not tossed are only because I haven't sorted through them yet.

As long as you get just 8 of your shape dials to a standard size (9 if male), you can wear skin tight stuff just fine.

I find the look of pre-mesh to be very poor and odd looking. Some like it, but not I.

I particularly don't like pre-mesh skirts and gowns - the flexi looks just absurd when sitting or moving too much.

I also have a collection of mesh bikinis and leggins for my avatar that look just perfect - some of which I can wear without needing alphas.

 

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I have kept a few non-mesh items mostly for layering purposes. I love stuff from Graves so still have a lot from there, but usually pair it with newer mesh. The other non mesh I have is due to wanting some items that went with Mesh body parts (Lolas, PA for example). Everything else is really mesh.

My favorite swimwear is mesh. My favorite Latex...mesh. When I see system layer clothing I almost always find flaws and it no longer looks "right" to me. 

Perhaps above all though is the access to demos with Mesh. Being able to try things on is very important.

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Haven´t found a single fitted mesh item that fits my shape (and it´s not really a wicked/strange shape!)

See people wearing mesh with unadjusted alpha layers is kinda funny. Some of them do not even realize how it looks because their graphics is set to low.

So it´s not very nice to do but the biggest joke is women with mini skirts and alphas under. Vote for prim/sculpt on that.

Swimsuits underwear (i read a post about fitted mesh stockings) are nonsene - my opinion. The system clothes do a great job and you can wear clothes on top of your underwear - not everyone roames around in tights ;-)

Not being willing to adjust my shape to clothes might be a male thing anyway - lol

Monti

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i love mesh for boots and shoes....and i have some mesh hair that i like

but seriously, fiddling with my body to make something fit just irritates me....i want to get dressed and go...hehe    and i hate the void caused by the alpha under skirts and tops...i think the whole mesh thing has a long way to go to be really nice looking

so, while i do have some mesh things i wear, i still wear alot of older stuff

i've also noticed that when i go to events and live music, mesh is the last thing to rez...lots of disimbodied heads and legs and arms with their clothing hanging off their hands....so if i'm gonna be in a crowd, i avoid mesh...

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Bliss Zufreur wrote:

 

i've also noticed that when i go to events and live music, mesh is the last thing to rez...

I've noticed the same thing - in a crowded place it often takes a long time for all the mesh wearables to rez. By inspecting people's mesh clothing it is very easy to see why the mesh takes long time to rez. Lots of clothes have insane number of vertices in them. It seems that a big number of designers think that the more vertices the better. Add to that huge texture sizes and the result is very slow rezzing. :smileymad:

I know and I have seen that there are also many designers who actually know how to make good looking clothes with well optimized, fairly low polygon mesh. If all designers did that then there would be no problem with mesh rezzing. It would be fast, it would be efficient, everybody would be happy.

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

Like Syo, I'm not sure they're comparable. For certain clothes mesh is the obvious choice, but some clothing hasn't converted to mesh very well at all yet. Especially anything skin tight (e.g. latex).


Francisbilbo wrote:

Like Syo, I'm not sure they're comparable. For certain clothes mesh is the obvious choice, but some clothing hasn't converted to mesh very well at all yet. Especially anything skin tight (e.g. latex).

Spambot detected. :D

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My preference in clothing is limited due to only using a full mesh (avatar with higher poly count for the trolls). Unfortunately, despite my making it clear to some of the deigners I have spoke with about price not being an issue, they still refuse to do custom orders since so few items fit every 'mesh AV.'

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Coby Foden wrote:


Bliss Zufreur wrote:

 

i've also noticed that when i go to events and live music, mesh is the last thing to rez...

I've noticed the same thing - in a crowded place it often takes a long time for all the mesh wearables to rez. By inspecting people's mesh clothing it is very easy to see why the mesh takes long time to rez. Lots of clothes have insane number of vertices in them. It seems that a big number of designers think that the more vertices the better. Add to that huge texture sizes and the result is very slow rezzing. :smileymad:

I know and I have seen that there are also many designers who actually know how to make good looking clothes with well optimized, fairly low polygon mesh. If all designers did that then there would be no problem with mesh rezzing. It would be fast, it would be efficient, everybody would be happy.

I'm getting a lot of boob views too.  :)

But this is now harkening back to when a few years ago people were arriving at SIMs and the clothing layers were not rendering for others to see.  There were a lot of AR's filed for nudity in G Rated SIMs when in fact the people were wearing clothing layers.

I will also add that I find the 'see through insides' of clothing very annoying also.  There is no reason I want to be looking at the electronics inside my monitor.  ;)

Mesh Clothes is simply falling short on too many fronts that I find it hard to understand how people can find it acceptable.

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Mesh Clothes is simply falling short on too many fronts that I find it hard to understand how people can find it acceptable.

Because the alternative is worse -  for most types of clothing non-mesh Second Life clothing is laughably bad to anyone who hasn't gotten used to the compromises older SL users have. Take an honest look at some of your SL outfits with fresh eyes sometime - would you think it's acceptable if you weren't used to it?

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

Mesh Clothes is simply falling short on too many fronts that I find it hard to understand how people can find it acceptable.

Because the alternative is worse -  for most types of clothing non-mesh Second Life clothing is laughably bad to anyone who hasn't gotten used to the compromises older SL users have. Take an honest look at some of your SL outfits with fresh eyes sometime - would you think it's acceptable if you weren't used to it?

Oh, I'll agree with this also.  My standards are a bit higher today then when I started but I also have a better computer / better graphics.

But one of the things that always separated the top designers and the run of the mill was their ability to texture a clothing layer so that it didn't look like I just let my children draw on my avatar with a crayon.  So yes, there are a lot of things that I have deleted as 'no longer acceptable' as time has passed.

I also know the same holds true for Mesh.  Some designers do a far superior job then others. 

I guess what irks me a little is the attitude I sometimes see, "If it's mesh it's got to be good." 

All the clothing options have their good points and their bad.

And I know we all have our individual preferences.

And sometimes Martians are not the most fasion savvy species in SL.

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I love mesh now that designers have learned how to deal with it. NOT FITTED however which simply doesn't seem to fit anyone well LOL.  

That being said I still keep undies, nylons, tights, and undersweaters (all texture) for times when you want to LAYER. It is not often that mesh and layering work well together unless planned as a set.

I never liked sculpts!  I have a few left in my inventory but mostly because inventory cleaning is NOT what I want to do. Maybe this summer when it is slow ;)

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I love my mesh suit. Much better than the painted on version, but I am with Rolig on the gowns. nothing like a good flexi prim skirt. Also as someone else said, a mini skirt with an alpha showing underneath is a bit disconcerting. Not that I'm looking. Honest, honest!

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To add to the discussion, here are the pros and cons for me:

Mesh

pros:

1. Looks more realistic

2. Due the the popularity, the mesh clothes are more updated and stylish

3. most mesh hair won't disappear into your avatar like prim hair

cons:

1. I have to modify my shape for seperate outfits to get it to fit perfectly

2. not all alpha layers are made to fit the mesh item well

3. Can't combine with other mesh items,

some examples: mesh pants + high boots =no

mesh jackets + plus mesh shirts = sometimes no

Prim

pros:

1. You can can easily wear them under mesh clothes and other items

2. When it comes to long gowns, I prefer flowy prims. Mesh gowns look stiff and your legs are usually invisble

cons:

1. most of the styles are outdated now

2. the prim attachments such as collars or cuffs do not blend well

 

 

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LoriLexa wrote:

To add to the discussion, here are the pros and cons for me:

Mesh

pros:

1. Looks more realistic

2. Due the the popularity, the mesh clothes are more updated and stylish

3. most mesh hair won't disappear into your avatar like prim hair

cons:

1. I have to modify my shape for seperate outfits to get it to fit perfectly

2. not all alpha layers are made to fit the mesh item well

3. Can't combine with other mesh items,

some examples: mesh pants + high boots =no

mesh jackets + plus mesh shirts = sometimes no

Prim

pros:

1. You can can easily wear them under mesh clothes and other items

2. When it comes to long gowns, I prefer flowy prims. Mesh gowns look stiff and your legs are usually invisble

cons:

1. most of the styles are outdated now

2. the prim attachments such as collars or cuffs do not blend well

 

 

That's a good, fair summary. What it says is that neither mesh nor "standard" prims are perfect. There's room for both.  Any designer that uses only part of the toolbox available is missing out.  I do agree that there is nice mesh clothing on the market today.  I have some that I'm quite pleased with, especially after I have remade the alpha masks that many designers seem to have trouble with.  I will not abandon flexi prim skirts, though, and will not buy many mesh skirts unless they are pencil skirts that are not intended to flow.  A mesh skirt simply looks like I'm wearing a rubber suit.  It bends as I move, but it cannot flow and flounce as I walk or dance.  It cannot respond to a gentle breeze.  Flexi skirts have their own problems, but they beat mesh hands-down when it comes to mimicking the way a real skirt moves in RL.

  If I could add one more "con" to add to your excellent list, I would say that I am disappointed that I cannot easily wear mesh clothing AND non-mesh clothing at the same time unless they were meant to work together by whoever designed them. For example, I have a great mesh blouse in my inventory. I can't make my own outfit with that lovely blouse and a flowing flexi prim skirt, though. Since it didn't come with a mesh skirt as part of an outfit, I can't wear it with any other designer's mesh skirt either.  Mix and match isn't an option with most mesh clothing.

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Rolig Loon wrote:


LoriLexa wrote:

To add to the discussion, here are the pros and cons for me:

Mesh

pros:

1. Looks more realistic

2. Due the the popularity, the mesh clothes are more updated and stylish

3. most mesh hair won't disappear into your avatar like prim hair

cons:

1. I have to modify my shape for seperate outfits to get it to fit perfectly

2. not all alpha layers are made to fit the mesh item well

3. Can't combine with other mesh items,

some examples: mesh pants + high boots =no

mesh jackets + plus mesh shirts = sometimes no

Prim

pros:

1. You can can easily wear them under mesh clothes and other items

2. When it comes to long gowns, I prefer flowy prims. Mesh gowns look stiff and your legs are usually invisble

cons:

1. most of the styles are outdated now

2. the prim attachments such as collars or cuffs do not blend well

 

 

That's a good, fair summary. What it says is that neither mesh nor "standard" prims are perfect. There's room for both.  Any designer that uses only part of the toolbox available is missing out.  I do agree that there is nice mesh clothing on the market today.  I have some that I'm quite pleased with, especially after I have remade the alpha masks that many designers seem to have trouble with.  I will not abandon flexi prim skirts, though, and will not buy many mesh skirts unless they are pencil skirts that are not intended to flow.  A mesh skirt simply looks like I'm wearing a rubber suit.  It bends as I move, but it cannot flow and flounce as I walk or dance.  It cannot respond to a gentle breeze.  Flexi skirts have their own problems, but they beat mesh hands-down when it comes to mimicking the way a real skirt moves in RL.

  If I could add one more "con" to add to your excellent list, I would say that I am disappointed that I cannot easily wear mesh clothing AND non-mesh clothing at the same time unless they were meant to work together by whoever designed them. For example, I have a great mesh blouse in my inventory. I can't make my own outfit with that lovely blouse and a flowing flexi prim skirt, though. Since it didn't come with a mesh skirt as part of an outfit, I can't wear it with any other designer's mesh skirt either.  Mix and match isn't an option with most mesh clothing.

Exactly Rolig, I could not have said it better. Even though mesh is becoming more of a popular choice now, we still have room for prim clothing. We are in a transitional phase right now.  Alot of SL users still have prim in their inventories and they are recently trying out the new mesh items while mix/matching them. Some users don't want to change, which I highly respect. However, I'm always open to new items in SL but it's always good to use your own discretion. Take your time and try it out first. The experience is different for everyone :matte-motes-big-grin:

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All I want is a mesh outfit to replace the textured jeans and tank top and prim boots that I've worn for about 6 years. I've been trying to find this holy grail for over a year. I've tried so many demos and nothing works together. It's been so frustrating.

The mesh jeans I like don't fit into the mesh boots, and the tank top I like doesn't go with the jeans. I roughly cover the skin gaps with textured underpants which don’t match very well, and I have jeans sticking out of my mesh boots, which are demos until I find the right match, and well........ I just put up with it and don't look at myself very closely anymore.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I will probably get flamed for this, but I hate mesh clothing. For shoes and boots, I guess it is okay. But I always wear layer and prim items for everything else. Mesh just never fits rights and I refuse to have to change my shape all the time. People work hard on their avatar shape and shouldn't have to change it all the time just to fit clothing. So until LL finds a way to get mesh to fit to ALL shapes and sizes, I'll be sticking with my layer and prim clothing.

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