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Oh I see, well I have to say I do love spending large periods of time reading "The region you're trying to visit contains moderate content, which is accessible to adults only." every time I want to go somewhere with players and have to settle for empty barren landscapes with nobody in them. I only have to wait 17,000 hours then I can finally find people! :D It's practically tomorrow!

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Origibro wrote:

Oh I see, well I have to say I do love spending large periods of time reading "
The region you're trying to visit contains moderate content, which is accessible to adults only
." every time I want to go somewhere with players and have to settle for empty barren landscapes with nobody in them. I only have to wait 17,000 hours then I can finally find people!
:D
It's practically tomorrow!

That right there gave you your answer.. At 16 you are not an adult.

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ObviousAltIsObvious wrote:

yeah that is something they need to work on. teens used to be segregated on separate regions, but that made for a very sleepy version of SL. they sort of broke the walls but didn't follow through with a way to make sure you all wouldn't still be bored
:/

How is it LL job to make content? If the teens want to not be bored they need to create clubs and RP areas on G land.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


ObviousAltIsObvious wrote:

yeah that is something they need to work on. teens used to be segregated on separate regions, but that made for a very sleepy version of SL. they sort of broke the walls but didn't follow through with a way to make sure you all wouldn't still be bored
:/

How is it LL job to make content? If the teens want to not be bored they need to create clubs and RP areas on G land.

It is not, as you say, LL's "job" to make content. But it may be in their best interests to do so -- or at least, to find a way to encourage others to do so.

The generation that is now at an age to join SL as "minors" is the first generation, perhaps, that comes to this platform having already been introduced at a young age to both social media and virtual worlds. They have not only had FB and Tumblr accounts from an early age, but many of them have been in virtual worlds for kiddies like Poptropica, Club Penguin, or (of course) Minecraft.

They are, in other words, ripe for the picking: they know what VWs can offer, and should be impressed by how much more they can experience in Second Life than on those other, heavily homogenized and corporatized platforms. (Minecraft, of course, is different, but better building tools all round would make SL a better competitor for that market too.)

LL can continue to ignore teens, of course . . . and watch its demographic skew older and older. Or it can do something to attract the teen set and hold their interest here long enough that they become full-fledged adult residents. 

What they should not do is lift the restrictions on teen users (and I'm sure that, for a variety of reasons, they won't). But they could rebuild the Teen Grid, and add content that ensures that it is a worthwhile place to be. LL already intervenes in the content creation market with Linden Homes, and they'll like have to do so here too, because there is not likely a great deal of money to be made from teens. But I firmly believe that it is in the best long-term interests of the platform to do so.

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Well, sure, they could build something on G rated sims, but would it be popular? The majority of SL users are adults, who are free to chose from every place that exists, so thats a huge competition. There are popular G rated sims, but I'm not sure if the Lindens could make such a place...even more since many of those popular spots are clubs, that have staff which is always making sure the place stays active and attractive...LL doesn't have people for something like that.

I personally don't like G rated sims. I avoid them whenever I can. Too many rules, too strict...and a not so nice mindest behind all that.

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LaskyaClaren wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


ObviousAltIsObvious wrote:

yeah that is something they need to work on. teens used to be segregated on separate regions, but that made for a very sleepy version of SL. they sort of broke the walls but didn't follow through with a way to make sure you all wouldn't still be bored
:/

How is it LL job to make content? If the teens want to not be bored they need to create clubs and RP areas on G land.

It is not, as you say, LL's "job" to make content. But it may be in their best interests to do so -- or at least, to find a way to encourage others to do so.

Where have they encouraged anyone to build anything?

The generation that is now at an age to join SL as "minors" is the first generation, perhaps, that comes to this platform having already been introduced at a young age to both social media and virtual worlds. They have not only had FB and Tumblr accounts from an early age, but many of them have been in virtual worlds for kiddies like Poptropica, Club Penguin, or (of course) Minecraft.

I had to ask my kids about those.... Aside from Minecraft I was told by my 12 year old daughter they're for "little kids," my ten year old daughter plays both. Neither plays minecraft. Not sure how many 16 year olds are playing little kid games.

They are, in other words, ripe for the picking: they know what VWs can offer, and should be impressed by how much 
more
 they can experience in Second Life than on those other, heavily homogenized and corporatized platforms. (Minecraft, of course, is different, but better building tools all round would make SL a better competitor for that market too.)

Are you really saying that Minecraft has better building tools than SL?

LL can continue to ignore teens, of course . . . and watch its demographic skew older and older. Or it can do something to attract the teen set and hold their interest here long enough that they become full-fledged adult residents. 

What has LL done to attract our interest?

What they should not do is lift the restrictions on teen users (and I'm sure that, for a variety of reasons, they won't). But they could rebuild the Teen Grid, and add content that ensures that it is a worthwhile place to be. LL already intervenes in the content creation market with Linden Homes, and they'll like have to do so here too, because there is not likely a great deal of money to be made from teens. But I firmly believe that it is in the best long-term interests of the platform to do so.

Where is the profit maker for LL to do this? They can not legally accept CC info from a teen user without an adult co-signing, which they cant do in SL.

 

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Syo Emerald wrote:

Well, sure, they could build something on G rated sims, but would it be popular? The majority of SL users are adults, who are free to chose from every place that exists, so thats a huge competition. There are popular G rated sims, but I'm not sure if the Lindens could make such a place...even more since many of those popular spots are clubs, that have staff which is always making sure the place stays active and attractive...LL doesn't have people for something like that.

I personally don't like G rated sims. I avoid them whenever I can. Too many rules, too strict...and a not so nice mindest behind all that.

Would it be popular from the outset? Well, that would depend upon what it featured. But the point here would not be to attract the current users of SL anyway: it is to make SL more appealing for teens. And the point of that is to nurture that particular demographic so that they go on to become adult users. In fact, I think it's best to resurrect the teen grid precisely because you don't really want adult users mingling with the young'uns.

You're right about staffing for clubs -- for something like that, they'd probably have to subsidize or find some other way of encourage existing users to open and run them. It would be a different way to do things but not impossible, and not so very different from the way in which LL used to hire residents to build content around the grid.

Honestly, I don't know that it would be financially worthwhile doing this -- and I don't know how you'd measure that, except perhaps with a metric that measured age, and how many teens migrated eventually to the adult grid. It would probably work best hand-in-hand with a modest marketing campaign targeting teens. But I think it's an idea worth considering.

 

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


LaskyaClaren wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


ObviousAltIsObvious wrote:

yeah that is something they need to work on. teens used to be segregated on separate regions, but that made for a very sleepy version of SL. they sort of broke the walls but didn't follow through with a way to make sure you all wouldn't still be bored
:/

How is it LL job to make content? If the teens want to not be bored they need to create clubs and RP areas on G land.

It is not, as you say, LL's "job" to make content. But it may be in their best interests to do so -- or at least, to find a way to encourage others to do so.

Where have they encouraged anyone to build anything?

They used to do so with their public works moles or whatever they were called, who were residents who got paid (as I understand it) to build things for LL. My understanding is that the starter avatars are also built by private residents.

 

The generation that is now at an age to join SL as "minors" is the first generation, perhaps, that comes to this platform having already been introduced at a young age to both social media and virtual worlds. They have not only had FB and Tumblr accounts from an early age, but many of them have been in virtual worlds for kiddies like Poptropica, Club Penguin, or (of course) Minecraft.

I had to ask my kids about those.... Aside from Minecraft I was told by my 12 year old daughter they're for "little kids," my ten year old daughter plays both. Neither plays minecraft. Not sure how many 16 year olds are playing little kid games.

They don't play them at age 16. That's the point: by about 12 or 13, or even younger, they are ready to move on to something more sophisticated. The idea is not to compete with Poptropica 
et al
, but to provide a replacement for teens who have used them, but are ready to move on to something better.

They are, in other words, ripe for the picking: they know what VWs can offer, and should be impressed by how much 
more
 they can experience in Second Life than on those other, heavily homogenized and corporatized platforms. (Minecraft, of course, is different, but better building tools all round would make SL a better competitor for that market too.)

Are you really saying that Minecraft has better building tools than SL?

No, absolutely not.

I'm saying that they have buiding tools that are much easier to use than SL's. Building (and demolishing) is part of the very raison d'etre of Minecraft, and the building tools are much more intuitive, and well-integrated with the main user interface. They don't hold classes on how to build in Minecraft, because they don't need them.

LL can continue to ignore teens, of course . . . and watch its demographic skew older and older. Or it can do something to attract the teen set and hold their interest here long enough that they become full-fledged adult residents. 

What has LL done to attract our interest?

Not a hell of a lot, which may be part of the reason the user base has been slowly eroding for the last half-decade.

What they should not do is lift the restrictions on teen users (and I'm sure that, for a variety of reasons, they won't). But they could rebuild the Teen Grid, and add content that ensures that it is a worthwhile place to be. LL already intervenes in the content creation market with Linden Homes, and they'll like have to do so here too, because there is not likely a great deal of money to be made from teens. But I firmly believe that it is in the best long-term interests of the platform to do so.

Where is the profit maker for LL to do this? They can not legally accept CC info from a teen user without an adult co-signing, which they cant do in SL.

 
Well, kids can, and do, use Paypal (whether they are legally allowed to or not). And there are other ways around the problem.

More to the point, however, this isn't really about making profit 
now
. It's about nurturing younger residents who, in a few years, may migrate to the main grid, and begin to contribute to the economy.


 

 

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You guys are talking about teens building their own sims / locations like it's easy to get a hold of $300 a month for someone still in HS and obviously not working full time.

 

Hell, even at my age with my income, sims are an impossible feat for me. My 1400 prim land at 1500 L$ a week is pretty much the max I can spend comfortably.

 

The only active G rated lands I've ever been to were catered to SL Kids, who are most often RL adults.

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After reading some of this post had a look around the main land looking for general land and found some rather crazy things.  I think it would be a big help for teens if LL separated general and moderate land better.  I found a LL owned bridge on general land that connects 4 moderate sims.  I found a large open water area with many moderate sims with a few general sims spaces out and not connected in a way that would be completely useless for teens to explore. 

 

once you do find places you can go I would save landmarks for them and share them with other people like your self, you could all so look for or start a group to help teens find places and events.

 

 

 

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Parrish Ashbourne wrote:

After reading some of this post had a look around the main land looking for general land and found some rather crazy things.  I think it would be a big help for teens if LL separated general and moderate land better.  I found a LL owned bridge on general land that connects 4 moderate sims.  I found a large open water area with many moderate sims with a few general sims spaces out and not connected in a way that would be completely useless for teens to explore. 

 

once you do find places you can go I would save landmarks for them and share them with other people like your self, you could all so look for or start a group to help teens find places and events.

 

 

 

Maybe an even simpler solution would be to have a "Great for Teens!" setting for the Destination Guide? They could focus on existing content.

But it would require a bit more thought than simply restricting entries to "General," as there is a great deal there that wouldn't appeal. Currently, filtering results to "General," only 1 sim featured in the slide show is applicable, and there are only 2 under "Editor's Choice" -- one of which is the "Mental Health Symposium" at Virtual Ability.

They can surely do better than that.

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when LL started up SL, they absolutely were in world, helping to build a nucleus of content and getting involved with events and so on, only backing off after a community was well established.

things like that were tried for Teen SL too, but it stayed small and didn't gain the same kind of momentum. the new CEO has first hand experience with that part.

when TSL was merged, the 13-15 half of the TSL population were suddenly underage and gone, and the thinned population were left in this weird environment where anyone could stomp on their turf but not vice versa. there should have been another round of community building at that point, except that it coincided with the big blood letting. LL could go back and fix this, get a recognizable community of younger people kick started. if friendships and loyalties can be forged among the peole stuck on G land, the content can happen. the friendships might even keep some of that content on the G land when 18th birthdays roll up.

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ObviousAltIsObvious wrote:

when LL started up SL, they absolutely were in world, helping to build a nucleus of content and getting involved with events and so on, only backing off after a community was well established.

things like that were tried for Teen SL too, but it stayed small and didn't gain the same kind of momentum. the new CEO has first hand experience with that part.

when TSL was merged, the 13-15 half of the TSL population were suddenly underage and gone, and the thinned population were left in this weird environment where anyone could stomp on their turf but not vice versa. there should have been another round of community building at that point, except that it coincided with the big blood letting. LL could go back and fix this, get a recognizable community of younger people kick started. if friendships and loyalties can be forged among the peole stuck on G land, the content can happen. the friendships might even keep some of that content on the G land when 18th birthdays roll up.

Yes. This. :)

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Here's the thing. LL doesn't run all of the land in SL. There is no way to move all of the G sim to the same area (technically they could, but people would complain.) If I rented a sim I could have it as G M or A as I choose. LL does not set the land ratings the Sim renter does. I say renter as no one actually owns a sim in SL, we rent them from LL or someone else does.

Perhaps a small continent that was designated G land only would help, like they did with Ursula Zindra.

 

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Here's the thing. LL doesn't run all of the land in SL. There is no way to move all of the G sim to the same area (technically they could, but people would complain.) If I rented a sim I could have it as G M or A as I choose. LL does not set the land ratings the Sim renter does. I say renter as no one actually owns a sim in SL, we rent them from LL or someone else does.

Perhaps a small continent that was designated G land only would help, like they did with
Ursula
Zindra.

 

You mean, like, you know . . . a Teen Grid, even?

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LaskyaClaren wrote:


Parrish Ashbourne wrote:

After reading some of this post had a look around the main land looking for general land and found some rather crazy things.  I think it would be a big help for teens if LL separated general and moderate land better.  I found a LL owned bridge on general land that connects 4 moderate sims.  I found a large open water area with many moderate sims with a few general sims spaces out and not connected in a way that would be completely useless for teens to explore. 

 

once you do find places you can go I would save landmarks for them and share them with other people like your self, you could all so look for or start a group to help teens find places and events.

 

 

 

Maybe an even simpler solution would be to have a "Great for Teens!" setting for the Destination Guide? They could focus on existing content.

But it would require a bit more thought than simply restricting entries to "General," as there is a great deal there that wouldn't appeal. Currently, filtering results to "General," only 1 sim featured in the slide show is applicable, and there are only 2 under "Editor's Choice" -- one of which is the "Mental Health Symposium" at Virtual Ability.

They can surely do better than that.

There is a great deal in the destination guide that doesn't appeal in every category. Perhaps if they searched through the categories that interested them they may find something.

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LaskyaClaren wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Here's the thing. LL doesn't run all of the land in SL. There is no way to move all of the G sim to the same area (technically they could, but people would complain.) If I rented a sim I could have it as G M or A as I choose. LL does not set the land ratings the Sim renter does. I say renter as no one actually owns a sim in SL, we rent them from LL or someone else does.

Perhaps a small continent that was designated G land only would help, like they did with
Ursula
Zindra.

 

You mean, like, you know . . . a Teen Grid, even?

The teen grid was owned and run by LL, they closed it because they were losing money hand over fist. I mean a land that was for G sims only, but would allow any av. Keeping out the adult users that have the money to spend is foolish. There are plenty of adult users that have younger avs to populate and spend on a G sim.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


LaskyaClaren wrote:


Parrish Ashbourne wrote:

After reading some of this post had a look around the main land looking for general land and found some rather crazy things.  I think it would be a big help for teens if LL separated general and moderate land better.  I found a LL owned bridge on general land that connects 4 moderate sims.  I found a large open water area with many moderate sims with a few general sims spaces out and not connected in a way that would be completely useless for teens to explore. 

 

once you do find places you can go I would save landmarks for them and share them with other people like your self, you could all so look for or start a group to help teens find places and events.

 

 

 

Maybe an even simpler solution would be to have a "Great for Teens!" setting for the Destination Guide? They could focus on existing content.

But it would require a bit more thought than simply restricting entries to "General," as there is a great deal there that wouldn't appeal. Currently, filtering results to "General," only 1 sim featured in the slide show is applicable, and there are only 2 under "Editor's Choice" -- one of which is the "Mental Health Symposium" at Virtual Ability.

They can surely do better than that.

There is a great deal in the destination guide that doesn't appeal in every category. Perhaps if they searched through the categories that interested them they may find something.

Of course.

But the content featured with pics on the front page does matter: these are sims that people are more likely to visit precisely because they are highlighted by LL there. The same principle applies to teen users: LL could make it easier for them to find accessible content that makes SL a more enjoyable experience.

It's a win-win: teen residents have an easier time finding cool stuff, and LL has happier teen residents who are more likely to stick around and become, eventually, adult members of the grid.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


LaskyaClaren wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Here's the thing. LL doesn't run all of the land in SL. There is no way to move all of the G sim to the same area (technically they could, but people would complain.) If I rented a sim I could have it as G M or A as I choose. LL does not set the land ratings the Sim renter does. I say renter as no one actually owns a sim in SL, we rent them from LL or someone else does.

Perhaps a small continent that was designated G land only would help, like they did with
Ursula
Zindra.

 

You mean, like, you know . . . a Teen Grid, even?

The teen grid was owned and run by LL, they closed it because they were losing money hand over fist. I mean a land that was for G sims only, but would allow any av. Keeping out the adult users that have the money to spend is foolish. There are plenty of adult users that have younger avs to populate and spend on a G sim.

I take your point, but I'd question a few of your assumptions.

First, I doubt that the teen grid was losing money "hand over fist." It just wasn't big enough to be that big a drain. I am sure it is dwarfed in size by the number of empty mainland parcels now.

Second, the assumption that a G rated sim particularly caters to "younger avs" is questionable. One might want not to be exposed to adult or moderate content without being or even role playing a child or teen. Your suggestion would seem to be creating a kind of kiddie amusement park. There might well be adult RPers for whom that would appeal, but RL teens would more likely want adult amusements, minus the excessive violence and sexuality/nudity that distinguishes General from Moderate or Adult. That could potentially include everything from clubs to art galleries, and most sorts of venue in-between.

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Parrish Ashbourne wrote:

After reading some of this post had a look around the main land looking for general land and found some rather crazy things.  I think it would be a big help for teens if LL separated general and moderate land better.  I found a LL owned bridge on general land that connects 4 moderate sims.  I found a large open water area with many moderate sims with a few general sims spaces out and not connected in a way that would be completely useless for teens to explore. 

 

once you do find places you can go I would save landmarks for them and share them with other people like your self, you could all so look for or start a group to help teens find places and events.

 

 

 

I think that this dates back to when we had only two ratings for SIMs and a lack of planning by LL when setting up the Mainland.  There should have been a little bit more zoning.  Rather than having a stand alone "G" SIM in the Gulf of Jeogot(sp?) surrounded by "M" SIMs, the G SIM's should have been clustered together there.  At least that is my opinion. 

Still looking at Grid Survey Report, there certainly is not a lack of "G" rated SIMs.

 

Second Life Main Grid size as of 22 Apr 2014

Ownership Total General Moderate Adult Offline Total Area (km²)
Total 26144 3495 17932 4704 13 1713.37
Linden Owned 6985 1625 5011 346 3 457.77
Private Estates 19159 1870 12921 4358 10 1255.60
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