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Furries in SL--why all the hatred towards furries?


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Ok so this question has been fluttering around in my head for a while and I've decided to get it off my mind by asking the rest of the secondlife community why furries are so hated within SL. I myself am a furry and find no reason for all the hatred towards them. Maybe someone can explain why furries are such a disliked group of people?

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Weeeeeee!!!

I should stop watching cooking shows. I read that as deglazed.

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Its external to SL.

A long standing meme that furries are all about 'fursuits and extreme cartoon XXX'... If you were online around 1996-98 or so, some of the first online 'fan art' galleries were full of that stuff, while 'non-cartoon XXX' was monetizing and building the internet infrastructure - so less of an easy target for the same assumptions. For many people their first contact with furry ever was Bug Bunny, and their second was... the internet fan galleries full of "weird stuff"...

This imports into SL with furries being labeled as our version of villain... griefers.

 

Reality if you meet furries and non furries is likely no real difference. I do notice an preference for neon purple, metal, and video games among furries - but this coulkd just as easily be my own anecdotal biasing filter.

 

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To all:

I don't know about the "weird stuff", never saw that. But what I always thought, was that all the people that say adamantly “Second Life is not a Game”, see the Furries as adding a game aspect to Second Life, and that is what they see as so bad about the Furries. Something like, this is not a game, go play someplace else.

I have actually never heard any one give any kind of a reason, good or bad, for disliking Furries.

Good question, maybe you will get some answers, I'll be watching.

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Teagan Tobias wrote:

I don't know about the "weird stuff", never saw that. But what I always thought, was that all the people that say adamantly “Second Life is not a Game”, see the Furries as adding a game aspect to Second Life, and that is what they see as so bad about the Furries. Something like, this is not a game, go play someplace else.

Furries have been in SL since at least 2003 - here long BEFORE the fashion sorts. And a lot less "game" than the dance club talking baby romance sorts. So this is a rather unusual perspective I've not seen before.

Though I could see people new to SL thinking it.

 

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I had figured it was that. And thanks for explaining that part of it. Though i still can't see why people try and find out even a little bit about something before taking it at face value. Not long ago i found a sim that looked interesting to me when RP sims are concerned, yet when i decided to go and look, it was clearly said "no furries" in the sim rules. So i kind of end up asking myself, and ultimately asking the same question on a forum such as this. Anyone have any other ideas, not related to the cartoon xxx stuff? And no, i wasn't really online till around 2006. So i missed the meme stuff.

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The meme stuff is still pretty heavy, sadly.

Google up fur4life (or was it furry4life) and furaffinity and look at their art galleries. Even deviantart...

Furry seems to have taken off in the 1980s out of two comic books, Omaha and Albedo. One of these was a porn comic, the other was a 'realistic science fiction' approach drama. It appears Omaha is what influenced later fans... and Albedo is more or less forgotten...

(there were a couple other titles back then too, those were just the ones I've seen written up. In the 1980s, I had other concerns like staying alive in the inner city...)

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lonewolf3751 wrote:

I had figured it was that. And thanks for explaining that part of it. Though i still can't see why people try and find out even a little bit about something before taking it at face value. Not long ago i found a sim that looked interesting to me when RP sims are concerned, yet when i decided to go and look, it was clearly said "no furries" in the sim rules. So i kind of end up asking myself, and ultimately asking the same question on a forum such as this. Anyone have any other ideas, not related to the cartoon xxx stuff? And no, i wasn't really online till around 2006. So i missed the meme stuff.

Many roleplay sims say "no furries" because a furry avatar breaks with the rules of the setting played at certain sims. There are no furries in an original Star Trekk universe or in Gor and even less if you have a roleplay setting that aims for hirstoric settings or has any form of setting that simply has no furries in it.

I think you may be interested in watching a few videos of what Uncle Kage says about furries. His speech about "furries and the media" has some very good points and may explain it a bit more, why furries get so much "hate".

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Syo Emerald wrote:

Many roleplay sims say "no furries" because a furry avatar breaks with the rules of the setting played at certain sims. There are no furries in an original Star Trekk universe or in Gor and even less if you have a roleplay setting that aims for hirstoric settings or has any form of setting that simply has no furries in it.

 

Star Trek isn't a good example for excluding furries... the Caitians are furries by anyone's standard.

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Kelli May wrote:


Syo Emerald wrote:

Many roleplay sims say "no furries" because a furry avatar breaks with the rules of the setting played at certain sims. There are no furries in an original Star Trekk universe or in Gor and even less if you have a roleplay setting that aims for hirstoric settings or has any form of setting that simply has no furries in it.

 

Star Trek isn't a good example for excluding furries... the
 are furries by anyone's standard.

But we all know what is meant by "No furries", right? Of course, there are settings, especially sci fi settings, that include races that could be seen as "furries", but none of the furry avatars currently existing in Second Life fits those races. For someone playing such a character its probably always an option to contact the leading people from the sim and inform them about their plans. I'm sure, they would be accepted, because they are an actual part of the setting.

But those occasions are rare and so its easier to say "no furries" instead of making a complex rule about who can play here and who don't. I also want to point out that saying "furry" instead of anthromorphic animal or humanoid creature with fur leads, defines the forbidden type of avatar as the usual ones that are popular in the furry fandom. Its more like.... Someone with a Caitian avatar wouldn't identify themself as a furry because of this avatar.

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But we all know what is meant by "No furries", right? 

I'm honestly not sure that we do. I always considered "anthropomorphic animal" to be the most basic definition of a furry.

 

Of course, there are settings, especially sci fi settings, that include races that could be seen as "furries", but none of the furry avatars currently existing in Second Life fits those races.

I'd argue that for almost any sci-fi anthropomorphic animal, there's an avatar designed to replicate them in SL, or that could reasonably used to do so. I could pick any number of big cat furry avs that would look like a Caitian (or a Traveller Aslan, a Wing Commander Kilrathi etc.). 

 

I also want to point out that saying "furry" instead of anthromorphic animal or humanoid creature with fur leads, defines the forbidden type of avatar as the usual ones that are popular in the furry fandom.

I lost your meaning in the twisted grammar of this sentence. You seem to be making a definition by circular logic... that a furry avatar is the sort of avatar that a someone from furry fandom woud wear. 

 

Its more like.... Someone with a Caitian avatar wouldn't identify themself as a furry because of this avatar.

I'm pretty sure that outside of a Trek sim, a Caitian avatar would be seen as a furry, and would be banned (or accepted) on that criteria. 

 

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*sighs*

I'm just saying that just because an avatar (or any sort of character) could be seen as an antromorphic animal, doesn't mean it would be seen by everyone as a furry. For example, Winnie the Pooh is basically an antro, because its a bear with human like features, but would you call him a furry? I think many people outside of SL may not even know what a furry is and some may not want to have their character/favorite race been associated with the furry fandom.

And there are so many other cases where people don't speak of a furry, just because they see an anthromorpic character.

But basically this discussion is a bit OT and I think it can be broken down to one simple fact:

Someone who runs a busy roleplay sim does not have the time to explain to every neongreen, pinkstriped bunny that their avatar can not participate in this roleplay setting. Its way easier to just say "No furries". Last but not least, the rule "No furries" on RP sims, is not a sign of hatred towards furries.

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First off, I agree that it's totally reasonable to ban avatar types based on the content of your sim. If I was running an RP with a tight canon background (or a historical setting, for that matter) I wouldn't appreciate a furry (or any inappropriate element) wandering in either.

While we are getting off topic, I'd suggest that it's exactly this kind of split in opinion that leads to the prejudice against furries. Winnie, Mickey, Bugs et al aren't seen as furries, so they're OK. These other guys are furries, so they're wrong. Weird attitude, when by any reasonable comparison they're all just cartoon animals wandering around on two feet. Furry fandom didn't just materialise out of the ether. Someone saw these things in fiction and legend and thought "wouldn't it be cool if I was one of those". Why is it such a problem that a fictional race or character is associated with furry fandom? Surely this is exactly the question that was originally posed... why all the hatred towards furries?

And by the way, if you can't convince me with reasoned debate, a patronising sigh isn't going to cut it either.

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Perhaps I'd need to be a Furry to understand why you would choose to use the volatile word "HATRED" in your OP as well as the word "ALL" as though this is something that is rampant in SL.

I've been in SL almost seven years now.  I have friends of all persuasions.  I've had literally hundreds of conversations with hundreds of people and not once have I ever heard someone say, "I HATE FURRIES."  I've heard people say, "I don't get it, I think they are weird or strange, etc, but never once have I heard, "I HATE FURRIES." 

Now, I am certain that there are people who do hate them.  Second Life is after all made up of people of many, many persuasions.  But I've never seen anything that would lead me to say, "ALL THIS HATRED."  The fact of the matter is that I hear more ire directed at Gor and BDSM and Vampires and Gender Benders and Child Ava's than anything I've ever heard or read about concerning Furries.

On the other hand I can understand the ire of Land Owners in SL toward the people who live a Furrie Lifestyle.  I'd get tired too of having to explain over and over again why something doesn't fit with the 'ambience' of what I was doing.  And whether they said, "Adult Human Ava's Only," or, "No Furries," they'd still catch flak from whomever they were not allowing.

Maybe one day Furries will have 'protected class status.'  Maybe they really should have it.  I don't know.  Some times it's a crazy mixed up world we live in.  There is always going to be this dialogue: "At what point do your rights entitle you to infringe upon my rights?"  Certainly it is wrong to discriminate based on Race, Creed, Religion and Sexual Orientation.  But on other things where and how do we draw the line? 

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Syo Emerald wrote:


Kelli May wrote:


Syo Emerald wrote:

Many roleplay sims say "no furries" because a furry avatar breaks with the rules of the setting played at certain sims. There are no furries in an original Star Trekk universe or in Gor and even less if you have a roleplay setting that aims for hirstoric settings or has any form of setting that simply has no furries in it.

 

Star Trek isn't a good example for excluding furries... the
 are furries by anyone's standard.

But we all know what is meant by "No furries", right?

more like.... Someone with a Caitian avatar wouldn't identify themself as a furry because of this avatar.

I have several cat furry avatars that would fit Caitian perfectly.

If one is to start complaining about artistic quality... then 90% of the avatars in SL should not be allowed in human sims because they've got t-rex arms, spider legs, and flexi hair (and real hair does not move THAT much).

That said, in a broader sense I get the point that... a neon purple fox avatar is NOT one of the species in Star Trek that I am aware of... (I dunno, not enough of a trekkie to know, I only know Caitian because I ran out of interesting stuff on Netflix last year and watched the animated series).

 

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Syo Emerald wrote:

 

Someone who runs a busy roleplay sim does not have the time to explain to every neongreen, pinkstriped bunny that their avatar can not participate in this roleplay setting. Its way easier to just say "No furries". Last but not least, the rule "No furries" on RP sims, is not a sign of hatred towards furries.

I have seen RP sims with signs that more or less said: "furries must have realistic fur patterns."

Oh and, if you go to one of the furry art galleries, I'm pretty sure it won't take long to find some Pooh Bear fan art, most likely in the NSFW sections... (/shudder). But then... "fanart" is almost a better criteria for banning IMO... as that tends to be where the weird stuff lands - furry or not.

 

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Kelli May wrote:

While we are getting off topic, I'd suggest that it's exactly this kind of split in opinion that leads to the prejudice against furries. Winnie, Mickey, Bugs et al aren't seen as furries, so they're OK. These other guys are furries, so they're wrong. Weird attitude, when by any reasonable comparison they're all just catroon animals wandering around on two feet. Furry fandom didn't just materialise out of the ether. Someone saw these things in fiction and legend and thought "wouldn't it be cool if I was one of those". Why is it such a problem that a fictional raceor character is associated with furry fandom? Surely this is exactly the question that was originally posed... why all the hatred towards furries?

The furry fandom doesn't have the best image outside of itself. To sum it up, furries are often seen and portrait as weird freaks and got branded as sexual deviants and associated with beastiality at worst. Pussycat already mentioned the "hate" furries get on the internet. Shows like CSI did their fair share to get a negative image stuck in peoples minds. And thats why people don't want themselves or certain characters being associated with the furry fandom. And of course many really don't feel that they are part of that fandom....

Of course its laughable when you think about those double standarts, but thats how it is.

 

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I didnt understand this also...I have noticed some dance clubs ban 'furries' 

but now I see its because of 'ambience' OK, this makes some sense. 

One day Im getting an alt>>furries. I think it would be fun to be a cat or similar. 

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First of all, if you were hanging around in a furry place, with other furries... I doubt you would get this response. I'm not really understanding the deal here. I have a demigod tiger avi, a kid Neko outfit, etc. and when I'm around those droids, I do not get negative feedback. But I also know better than to stay in my Neko outfit or furry outfit all day. Yes, you have every right to stay "who you are", 24/7. We all have that right. But it's kind of like an African American CHOOSING to hang out in a KKK ran city. Sure, their beliefs aren't "illegal", and neither is the person going to this place. But the person must be aware of the harassment they will get. So they choose not to go there. Just like Emo kids trying to hang out with the jocks. Sometimes, it just doesn't work and you need to expect some negativity. I just don't understand why you were wherever you were at the time. Usually the furry crowd sticks with their own, or similar minds. A lot of Industrial/EBM clubs allow furries, same with goth clubs. Then, you have the specific furry sims and clubs. So to me it sounds like you were just wandering around trying to talk to people at a random sim. Which makes no sense. Yes, SL is a meeting place. But do you in RL, do you randomly go to places you have no idea about? Specially with an commonly un-liked quirk? I don't think so. You can IM me inworld if you'd like a list of furry/Neko hangouts and clubs.

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Teagan Tobias wrote:

To all:

I don't know about the "weird stuff", never saw that. But what I always thought, was that all the people that say adamantly “Second Life is not a Game”, see the Furries as adding a game aspect to Second Life, and that is what they see as so bad about the Furries. Something like, this is not a game, go play someplace else.

Second Life is definitely not a game, and furries are not part of a game, so the two don't go together in this discussion. I like furries and I am adamant that SL is not game.

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What I've exprienced and this is my own opinion. I do have furry avatars and switch between furry and human because I enjoy fashion and role-play. However, I've tried my best to make friends with those within the furry community and get ignored or usualy made fun of. What I'd like to know is what is there hatred towards those " human avatars" who accept furries and actually want to be friends with them.  I try and talk to some of them even say hell and I feel like the " black sheep" and most ignore me. I asked my friend why they are like that. He told me they are just shy... but I feel like it's more then that.  I understand being shy and weary.. but your not gonna learn anything about a person who is trying to get to know you if you ignore them.

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because their reasoning is based on prejuidice, so they discriminate. some become too lazy to know if a person may be a threat or not, so they categorize them in a group and discrminate them unjustly. like people that discrminate based on race or nationality. they make some suppositions in their imaginations that don't fit all people who belong to certain characteristic, apply them to all, and they evade the effort of reasoning by just discrminating a big part of humanity.

you and your friend are not on the wrong side of things.

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I honestly don't see much furry-hate in SL any more, most of it is external and spawned from sites like Something Awful and 4Chan.  It was worse six years ago than it is now.

I don't allow furries at my club events because the club is a historical (1940s) setting and I want the events to look realistic.  I don't allow booty shorts, aliens or Gorean warriors at events either, for the same reason. Outside of events I have no issue with it and furries are welcome to visit at any other time, as long as they're decently dressed.  Most places that ban furries do so because of a roleplaying or historical setting.

I have a few furry avatars and I do sometimes hang out in furry places, and my experience is that many furries are young or immature, and it may be that some sims have had trouble with the behaviour of furries in their venue. I'm not saying that all furries are like that but I'm sure its a factor in some peoples' decision.

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